The Update Time Makes Me Wanna Cry

[Marcuslandia]

Of course while the defenders would be able to root out the raiders from the region. You guys seem to think that the raiders then give up. Like they won't come back with different nations. Except now the shoe is on the other foot. Can the delegate now be up 24/7 ready to banject the raiders at the hour they come?

This only shifts the advantage over to anyone raiding the region whether they are actual raiders desiring control over the region, or defenders trying to liberate the region.

All my threads are starting to blur together before my eyes. _Somewhere_ I described the process as being the two sides feeding reinforcements into the fray in a battle of attrition.

I think that only during the initial assault does the invader have the advantage. Once the defenders know where the assault is happening, then routing troops into the battle is much easier.

A clever invader, however, would be smart enough to use an invasion in one location as a diversion for the REAL assault in another region. Once defenders commit to the first region, they get tied down waiting for more invaders to show. Meanwhile, the real, second attack starts, and banjected invaders from the first attack become reinforcements for that second attack.

[I'm sure that there's at least one bright Invader out there that figured this strategy out. I just wanted to make sure that _everybody_ knows about it now.]

[Northern Chittowa]

Well, i would hardly call it a great tactic as if invaders can split their force in order to do it, the defenders sure can as well to counter it...

[Whamabama]

All my threads are starting to blur together before my eyes. _Somewhere_ I described the process as being the two sides feeding reinforcements into the fray in a battle of attrition.

I think that only during the initial assault does the invader have the advantage. Once the defenders know where the assault is happening, then routing troops into the battle is much easier.

A clever invader, however, would be smart enough to use an invasion in one location as a diversion for the REAL assault in another region. Once defenders commit to the first region, they get tied down waiting for more invaders to show. Meanwhile, the real, second attack starts, and banjected invaders from the first attack become reinforcements for that second attack.

[I'm sure that there's at least one bright Invader out there that figured this strategy out. I just wanted to make sure that _everybody_ knows about it now.]

Actually they know of anything you can point out, and so do we. They can do that all they want. Defendeds are plenty good enough to see more than one invasion. Also the real good raiders move into the target a few miniuts or less from update. It's virtually impossible to stop.

[TannerFrankLand]

So the update is currently at 11 pm CST or 12 pm EST??

[Naivetry]

EDT - adjust for Daylight Savings.

And yep.

[Dysian]

OK now *I* am officially complaining about update. It was 10 am, now it's 6 am.
Change it BACK

EDIT: No seriously, it's either the update-till-yesterday (great for europeans, sucks for americans) or its the old(new) update (sucks for europeans, great for americans).

I mean, can't you REALLY find something in between? If anything, shift it for 12 hours perhaps? Or 13, 14?

[[violet]]

As per earlier discussion in this thread, I do want to move to two major daily updates (one every 12 hours), which would guarantee at least one non-horrific time for everybody. But for the moment, the current time seems to be the best available compromise. If it's 6am for you, that's bad, but it's better than the 4am update time many American players had to deal with previously.

[Romanar]

For me, it's 11PM. After my normal bedtime, but early enough to stay up if I need to. An hour or two earlier would be perfect, but this is still the best update time I've seen since I started NSing.

[Dysian]

If it's 6am for you, that's bad, but it's better than the 4am update time many American players had to deal with previously.

And thats what I'm saying. It's either 6 am for europeans, or 4 am for americans. And those are the two groups that play NS the most.

So I was suggesting that you shift it radically. Whats the difference between the farthest west of America and farthest east of Europe? Say we, 14 hours? So, you make it like, 11 PM for east europeans, and 9 AM for west Americans. And it's a perfect fit.

as for this

I do want to move to two major daily updates (one every 12 hours), which would guarantee at least one non-horrific time for everybody.

I'd say no. That would suggest that when I raid a region, I'd have to be awake TWICE in one day, expecting fendas to try and liberate my region. It would also be difficult with natives trying to defend themselves from raiders I guess.

[Northern Chittowa]

as for this

I do want to move to two major daily updates (one every 12 hours), which would guarantee at least one non-horrific time for everybody.

I'd say no. That would suggest that when I raid a region, I'd have to be awake TWICE in one day, expecting fendas to try and liberate my region. It would also be difficult with natives trying to defend themselves from raiders I guess.

Why not? Its more work yeah, but it would make it twice as exciting. Indeed you would have to be on for the two updates to keep the region, but if the defenders do take it, they would have to be on twice to make sure they dont lose it.

[Dysian]

Indeed you would have to be on for the two updates to keep the region, but if the defenders do take it, they would have to be on twice to make sure they dont lose it.

dont you deem that to be a bit stupid? I mean, regions will switch controllers at least on a daily basis. who would ever invade or defend a region, knowing it could be taken away from them if they merely blink? not to mention the natives.

On a funny (or maybe even serious) note: if you install two updates, install two delegates as well that'd make it easier

[Daynor]

If we start having two major updates will our population go up twice as fast? They only go up one million per day right? This would be bad...

I don't think that many stay up for the update anymore, raider, defender, or native. So I don't really see the point to the arguement that two updates would make this harder, since only a few devoted players do it anyway. Might have a point in the good ol' days, but now the games not as active.

[Northern Chittowa]

Indeed you would have to be on for the two updates to keep the region, but if the defenders do take it, they would have to be on twice to make sure they dont lose it.

dont you deem that to be a bit stupid? I mean, regions will switch controllers at least on a daily basis. who would ever invade or defend a region, knowing it could be taken away from them if they merely blink? not to mention the natives.

On a funny (or maybe even serious) note: if you install two updates, install two delegates as well that'd make it easier

Not really. If we take a look tactically at it, in real life military commanders have to keep a look at every hour of every day for changes in security et al, and seeing as this game is based upon real life (albeit exaggerated of course) then this would represent real life more accurately than it currently does.

If your not willing to put in the time and effort to make sure a region stays safe, or indeed to take and keep a region, surely you shouldnt be involved at all in it?

[[violet]]

I was suggesting that you shift it radically. Whats the difference between the farthest west of America and farthest east of Europe? Say we, 14 hours? So, you make it like, 11 PM for east europeans, and 9 AM for west Americans.

That wipes out all of Asia though (incl. Australia, which is our 4th biggest visitor nation). I can't see any perfect solution without twice-daily updates.

[Dysian]

Well it must wipe out SOMETHING. And when it must, wipe out the least active (Asia). Makes perfect sense to me.

Surely you can somehow include australia as well. Like make it 6 or 7 am for them, wont be that bad. And after all, Australia is number 4, but I bet that if you count the whole Europe as one nation, it would make number 1 or 2 (maybe even 3, but still more important than Australia).

OR, go with your plan for 2 updates. We really wont know until we try...

[Erastide]

Surely you can somehow include australia as well. Like make it 6 or 7 am for them, wont be that bad. And after all, Australia is number 4, but I bet that if you count the whole Europe as one nation, it would make number 1 or 2 (maybe even 3, but still more important than Australia).

Aren't you complaining about the fact that it's 6am for *you*?

[Zemnaya Svoboda]

Well it must wipe out SOMETHING. And when it must, wipe out the least active (Asia). Makes perfect sense to me.

Surely you can somehow include australia as well. Like make it 6 or 7 am for them, wont be that bad. And after all, Australia is number 4, but I bet that if you count the whole Europe as one nation, it would make number 1 or 2 (maybe even 3, but still more important than Australia).

OR, go with your plan for 2 updates. We really wont know until we try...

Remember that Max is an Aussie. Australia is the most important

Joking aside, I am intrigued by the possibility of both updates updating the Delegacy. I doubt that 2 rankings a day is necessary, however.

[Dysian]

Aren't you complaining about the fact that it's 6am for *you*?

I am complaining about the fact that it's 6 am for *me* and for *the rest of europe*

And yes Max is an Aussie, but I doubt he actually raids/defends... or does he

[The Sedge]

My feeling is that the new 'Liberation' category of World Assembly resolution is a satisfactory limit on griefing, so there are now no problems with adding a second update.

[Romanar]

Aren't you complaining about the fact that it's 6am for *you*?

I am complaining about the fact that it's 6 am for *me* and for *the rest of europe*

And yes Max is an Aussie, but I doubt he actually raids/defends... or does he

6 AM might not be so bad for the rest of Europe (except you) . As an American, it's not 6AM for me, but if it was, I'd be a happy guy. OTOH, 10AM would be a very bad time for me, since I'm at work then.

[Dysian]

well I don't think many people playing this game (or just people in general) tend to actually wake up at 6 am. Or stay that late, for that matter. But there are always exceptions, like yourself Romanar.

[Naivetry]

My feeling is that the new 'Liberation' category of World Assembly resolution is a satisfactory limit on griefing, so there are now no problems with adding a second update.

I think we'll need a little time to tell for sure, and I would particularly like to settle the question of whether Liberations will be moved up in the SC queue ahead of C&Cs (an option I am in favor of).

But I'm cautiously optimistic that two updates might work out. We're just now starting to see the real effects of this first time change, with one of the largest update raids I've ever seen taking place in Japan two updates ago... and following that a rather large and prominent liberation 4 hours ago. It's a step forward in terms of activity, but we've got a lot of adjustments to make... particularly on the defense side as we scramble to find the numbers to counter something like Japan. I'm not sure whether I prefer trying to make these changes in stages or all at once.

[The Sedge]

The Liberation proposals I've seen have been largely successful - 'Liberate France' led to the invaderes trying to re-found, with TITO instead re-founding for the natives; 'Liberate Belgium' may have led to the leaking of the password to defenders as the invader delegate tried to strengthen his position; 'Liberate Chicago' led to a negotiated solution being attained with the region being returned to the natives; and 'Liberate Pakistan' led to the region being re-founded, though I'm not sure who by. While they don't take priority over other resolutions, I don't see the time taken to get a liberation resolution passed as being too long to save a region from griefing.

Is the second update likely to be introduced, and if so, is it something that is likely to happen soon?

[[violet]]

Whaddya think Nai?

[Naivetry]

After consultation, the consensus seems to be... let's do it.