Changing update times

[The Realm Of No Return]

I would like to ask if the update times will ever move and if so will there be a thread to discuss it I only ask this as I am from the UK so one update is 5 am which is to early and other being 5 pm which is okay.

[Cerian Quilor]

The UD times are in EST. That's not going to change. Unfortunate fact of life. If it was going to change, I imagine it would have changed long ago.

[Andacantra]

Just want to add that as far as I'm aware, the updates were basically specifically chosen to be a pain as that's when site traffic is lowest.

They do move (for a short while) because BST starts at a different time to DST in the states but that actually makes things worse (4am/4pm), and is very temporary.

Update times being what they are is just something you have to work with.

[Sedgistan]

Just want to add that as far as I'm aware, the updates were basically specifically chosen to be a pain as that's when site traffic is lowest.

Originally, but that's less of the case now. If players want to argue for different times, we'll listen.

[Mousebumples]

Just want to add that as far as I'm aware, the updates were basically specifically chosen to be a pain as that's when site traffic is lowest.

Originally, but that's less of the case now. If players want to argue for different times, we'll listen.

There have also been discussions in the past to have the update times "rotate" by an hour in one direction every month. Every calendar year, then, the update time cycles back through the same order again. However, then there would likely be some months where there is minimal R/D activity because some times are bad for the vast majority of players/the world, IIRC.

Also: expect WAers (*raises hand*) to complain about some votes/proposals in the submission queue getting shortchanged on time to vote/approve or vice versa, depending on which direction the monthly adjustment happens.

[Stusgee]

I think in my opinion there should be a debate because like so many other people I find that during one update is to early and the other I work through it so first of all there should debate and secondly have a poll and get to vote on what time the update should be.

[Tyler Kazakov IV]

Just want to add that as far as I'm aware, the updates were basically specifically chosen to be a pain as that's when site traffic is lowest.

Originally, but that's less of the case now. If players want to argue for different times, we'll listen.

There should be times throughout the whole day, so defenders would have to take shifts.

[Stusgee]

I think 2 updates is okay but I just think the times need changing to suit because for me one update is to early and I work through one I mean at what time would everyone like to see the update times moved to?

[Transfiguration 92]

Please do not move the update times, you will mess up a lot of people's evil plans.

>_>
<_<

[Reploid Productions]

Originally, but that's less of the case now. If players want to argue for different times, we'll listen.

There should be times throughout the whole day, so defenders would have to take shifts.

Not gonna happen. The updates are called updates for a reason; that's when the game systematically goes through and updates every nation/region in the game to reflect the changes from answered issues, WA resolutions, and changes in endorsement count, and that process already takes a decent chunk of time to chew through everything. Making it do that more than twice a day is simply flat-out excessive.

[Transfiguration 92]

I think he meant it would shift by an hour each day (the minor and major both) so it would in time go throughout the whole day.

This is still a bad idea though because it would be too hard to coordinate anything with the update hopping around like a jackrabbit.

[Reploid Productions]

I think he meant it would shift by an hour each day (the minor and major both) so it would in time go throughout the whole day.

This is still a bad idea though because it would be too hard to coordinate anything with the update hopping around like a jackrabbit.

Eh... that's what I get posting when I'm half-asleep.

It could work, shifting the times around, but such a shift would probably have to be relatively predictable, like the "shift 1 hour each month" model tossed around.

[Evil Lord Sauron]

Originally, but that's less of the case now. If players want to argue for different times, we'll listen.

There have also been discussions in the past to have the update times "rotate" by an hour in one direction every month. Every calendar year, then, the update time cycles back through the same order again. However, then there would likely be some months where there is minimal R/D activity because some times are bad for the vast majority of players/the world, IIRC.

Also: expect WAers (*raises hand*) to complain about some votes/proposals in the submission queue getting shortchanged on time to vote/approve or vice versa, depending on which direction the monthly adjustment happens.

Rather than do it every day, do it after each proposal has been voted upon, that way WA proposals wouldn't lose out on voting times.

[Vladisvok Destino]

Also: expect WAers (*raises hand*) to complain about some votes/proposals in the submission queue getting shortchanged on time to vote/approve or vice versa, depending on which direction the monthly adjustment happens.

Rather than do it every day, do it after each proposal has been voted upon, that way WA proposals wouldn't lose out on voting times.

The problem I'd imagine with that is the fact that GA/SC votes don't always sync up (see current where the GA is due to finish voting in 39 hours, SC in 75 hours.) So if you change it after the current GA vote then the SC would presumably gain/lose an hour depending on which way you went. If you do it after the SC vote finishes then we're potentially doing the same to the GA.)

[Cerian Quilor]

There have also been discussions in the past to have the update times "rotate" by an hour in one direction every month. Every calendar year, then, the update time cycles back through the same order again. However, then there would likely be some months where there is minimal R/D activity because some times are bad for the vast majority of players/the world, IIRC.

Also: expect WAers (*raises hand*) to complain about some votes/proposals in the submission queue getting shortchanged on time to vote/approve or vice versa, depending on which direction the monthly adjustment happens.

Rather than do it every day, do it after each proposal has been voted upon, that way WA proposals wouldn't lose out on voting times.

The big problem is that for months at a time, there will be periods when regular raiders can no longer raid at all because the new time is incompatabile with them, shutting some people out of NS entirely during that time. There's no good solution, so let's not try bad half-solutions.

[Land filled with People]

The big problem is that for months at a time, there will be periods when regular raiders can no longer raid at all because the new time is incompatabile with them, shutting some people out of NS entirely during that time. There's no good solution, so let's not try bad half-solutions.

The "regular raiders", much like the "regular defenders", would simply change.

Personally, I think a one hour shift in the time of update starting that occurs between either every week or every month, would be good.

[Cerian Quilor]

And we'll be forcing players who before played R/D (and in some cases, like TBR, etc, that's all they do) out of the game for weeks and months at a time. Sorry, but no.

[Land filled with People]

And we'll be forcing players who before played R/D (and in some cases, like TBR, etc, that's all they do) out of the game for weeks and months at a time. Sorry, but no.

And other players who previously could not play (and hence found something else to do, or just quit), can now play. It balances out.

[The greater Vakolicci Haven]

As I'm in gmt (school work one, zzzzzzzzzzzzz the other), the update times are aweful. Moving one hour per month would be a good idea for people of that timezone, as it would both make people adapt to different times, and increase the amount of people who can update raid.

[Sedgistan]

"Rolling update times" were considered previously as a suggestion that came up during the summit, but ruled out as it'd cause too much disruption and confusion.

That doesn't mean that the update times won't be changed - if there's a time that would suit more people, we'd be open to that. However, we'd need to hear more convincing arguments than "I'd prefer it".

[The greater Vakolicci Haven]

How about it it opening the r/d game to more people who can't make the time? I'm not going to wake up at 5 in the morning to raid, sorry...but no.

[Tlik]

The issue with monthly rolling updates is it means that everyone loses. Sure, some people gain, but other people who are currently playing will not be able to play at certain times. It would also make NS extremely seasonal. I don't think there should be a change that would force some people to lose out, rather a change that would allow new people to join.

On the other hand, if NS didn't use a daily cycle, but instead ran on, say, a 32-hr loop, with 18hrs between updates, then (if my very rough maths works out) every fortnight there would be seven updates each at midnight, midday, 6pm and 6am (EDT/EST/Whatever timezone it is).

But then you have longer between updates (or I guess you could have less time between updates if you did an 18hr loop with updates every 9hrs). That might be truly terrible for the server in ways that I could not even begin to comprehend.

I mean, the idea that update times are quite exclusive is fairly valid. I'm able to defend at the moment, but a couple of years ago I wouldn't have had any chance at all of making either update. That said, it effectively creates four "update slots", and I know at times there can be a huge disparity between major and minor update force sizes, so I don't know if it would spread out players too thinly. I've no idea. I should stop talking.

[Vladisvok Destino]

How about it it opening the r/d game to more people who can't make the time? I'm not going to wake up at 5 in the morning to raid, sorry...but no.

The problem is that people like CQ above make a good point as to "well I can't make the new update time, so change it back" with about as much weight as you have.

Personally I'd like to see the times changed because I can make about 2 updates a week currently, but I don't see it happening any time soon.

[Andacantra]

I'd love to see them changed for entirely selfish reasons but admit that any change is going to cut out some group other than myself. As an exercise, just to have a look at the availability for each broad area at each time (I'm going to take EST for the states, GMT for Europe and GMT+10 for Aus, as a very general and broad generalisation for the sake of simplicity (in the form Major/Minor):

Current, Midnight/Midday EST, 5am/5pm GMT, 3pm/3am Aus. Reasonably doable for at least one update for most people.
+ 1 hour, 1am/1pm EST, 6am/6pm GMT, 4pm/4am Aus. More accessible in Europe, less accessible in the state, no appreciable difference for Aus.
+ 2 hours, 2am/2pm EST, 7am/7pm GMT, 5pm/5am Aus. More accessible in Europe, just about accessible for Aus, abysmal for the states.
+ 3 hours, 3am/3pm EST, 8am/8pm GMT, 6pm/6am Aus. Becoming less accessible in Europe for anyone with 9am commitments, a little more accesible for Aus, still abysmal for the states.
+ 4 hours, 4am/4pm EST, 9am/9pm GMT, 7pm/7am Aus. Poor for the states although improving, great for Aus and Minor's good for GMT (Major's meh).
+ 5 hours, 5am/5pm EST, 10am/10pm GMT, 8pm/8am Aus. Probably one of the best alternatives, actually. Not ideal for GMT but not abysmal, states is not ideal either but again not abysmal and Aus actually gets something semi-reasonable.
+ 6 hours, 6am/6pm EST, 11am/11pm GMT, 9pm/9am Aus. Also potentially good. A little late for younger Brits but actually pretty accessible for everyone else.
+ 7 hours, 7am/7pm EST, Midday/Midnight GMT, 10pm/10am Aus. Again, reasonable. Somewhat accesible in the states, Aus is reasonable, Euro is late but equivalent to the states currently and that has a reasonably large takeup.
+ 8 hours, 8am/8pm EST, 1pm/1am GMT, 11pm/11am Aus. Not great. Inaccesible to Euro, late for before-RL commitments in the states and reasonably late at night for Aus.
+ 9 hours, 9am/9pm EST, 2pm/2am GMT, midnight/midday Aus. Also not ideal but could be worse. Inaccessible to Euro, reasonably late for Aus and only Minor would be practical for many in the states.
+ 10 hours, 10am/10pm EST, 3pm/3am GMT, 1am/1pm Aus. Pretty absymal. Mostly inaccesible to two groups...
+ 11 hours, 11am/11pm EST, 4pm/4am GMT, 2am/2pm Aus. Again pretty poor. Only really accesible one is Minor in the states, and to a lesser extent major in GMT, at least weekdays.

At which point everything just flips and cycles again. Obviously I've made some fairly large and sweeping assumptions here but I figured it would be worth doing a quick analysis of how accessible update would be at the various times.

[Shadow Afforess]

I guess I wonder why updates are only an hour long. If they ran more slowly, you could have perpetual updates. Raid any time of the day.