Regional 'opt-out' for R/D? [Gameplay/Proposal]

[Cerian Quilor]

I think the major stumbling block is that the "soft" opt-out on the part of an RP region wasn't respected by raiders. Hence, the current frustration and talk of ways about how to ensure that people who want to be left alone, are.

Indeed, it was believed that since GD wasn't a part of the "R/D game", it was relatively safe,

Why the hell would you have believed that in the first place?

There is no 'soft' opt-out. There never has been. There's no such thing.

And to those people that say you're not proposing killing Gameplay - yes, you really are. Any application of your idea that could even remotely 'work' would effectively kill Gameplay. It would be a slow death, but it would be a death.

@Kassaran: Raiders who have malice (which is far from all of them) do so in the context of the game as well, just as rpers who rp with malice do in the context of their rps.

Roleplayers are not some special group of flowers that need magical protections against the rest of the game. You have the same tools everyone else does, and you don't deserve special treatment. The game mechanics are the same for everyone, and that's the way it should always be. And saying the site administration doesn't support you and doesn't care is the second biggest pile of hockey I've read on these forums today.

[SquareDisc City]

Have you seen some of the RP forums? Have you seen how some people RP? We can be infinitely worse than raiders, and operate our roleplay with far more malice intent than just a few laughs and giggles of raiding.

Raiders are just there to have fun, why does everyone keep demonizing them?

I know what some RPers can be like. However, all RPers have a rather useful tool colloquially known as the Ignore Cannon to deal with such.

It's at least partially their fault if they have 50+ nations in the region and just one endo on the delegate. It's called painting a bullseye on your back.

I can well believe plenty of RPers have multiple accounts in different RPing regions. With one WA nation per person, shoring up the delegates in all the regions one's involved in is a significant burden.

And I swear to god if anyone equates what I just said to blaming rape victims for 'dressing like sluts' or whatever, I'm going to punt you right back in NSG where you belong. >_>

Blaming retailers hit by shoplifting for having valuable items on their shelves and not patting down everyone before letting them in, then. And yes, I know it's not a perfect analogy. No analogy is.

Maybe just making it so founders never CTE would work.

Then you get inactive founders, which is basically the same thing as not having one.[/quote]Not really. An inactive founder and a non-exec delegate would be a pain, sure, but raiders still can't do much against such a region. Raiders, though, would be quite right to point out that such a change really would reduce the number of targets.

[Esternial]

Not really. An inactive founder and a non-exec delegate would be a pain, sure, but raiders still can't do much against such a region. Raiders, though, would be quite right to point out that such a change really would reduce the number of targets.

Wouldn't it also turn most of the region a stagnant husk, save for the RMB? Nobody can edit the WFE, etc.

[Parone92]

Indeed, it was believed that since GD wasn't a part of the "R/D game", it was relatively safe,

Why the hell would you have believed that in the first place?

There is no 'soft' opt-out. There never has been. There's no such thing.

And to those people that say you're not proposing killing Gameplay - yes, you really are. Any application of your idea that could even remotely 'work' would effectively kill Gameplay. It would be a slow death, but it would be a death.

@Kassaran: Raiders who have malice (which is far from all of them) do so in the context of the game as well, just as rpers who rp with malice do in the context of their rps.

Roleplayers are not some special group of flowers that need magical protections against the rest of the game. You have the same tools everyone else does, and you don't deserve special treatment. The game mechanics are the same for everyone, and that's the way it should always be. And saying the site administration doesn't support you and doesn't care is the second biggest pile of hockey I've read on these forums today.

If I can't get an opt out from your crap, then I'm going to fight you, clan-waz style.

[Mad Jack]

Not really. An inactive founder and a non-exec delegate would be a pain, sure, but raiders still can't do much against such a region. Raiders, though, would be quite right to point out that such a change really would reduce the number of targets.

Wouldn't it also turn most of the region a stagnant husk, save for the RMB? Nobody can edit the WFE, etc.

Correct. Which is why that was possibly the worst suggestion in this entire thread.

[Inyourfaceistan]

The difference is, we RP. It's a concert of the imagination. It has no impact for or consequence on real people. Where it does, we make sure to de-emphasize sensitive issues. Fading to black to keep scenes at or below PG-13, and so on.

Whereas raider actions, on the other hand, very much do have impacts on us.

Not really...

Okay? You're region got raided? Big deal. It's just as much an issue as having some guy launch mustard gas at your nation because your the wrong ideology, having someone stab you in the back and place his own character in charge of your nation and make you surrender to foreign invaders because they don't like what side you picked, getting invaded and be subject to genocide just because your chinese, or having someone pretend to rape your leader's daughter because your an infidel.

Thats what the retcon/ignore cannon is for. Don't like the insanely wicked things some players do to others? Then don't accept it as cannon!
Don't like some goobers coming in and taking over your region for shits and giggles? Then found a region and take away WA delegate controls!

[EDIT: Wow I just got ultra-ninja'd]

[Tano]

Why the hell would you have believed that in the first place?

There is no 'soft' opt-out. There never has been. There's no such thing.

And to those people that say you're not proposing killing Gameplay - yes, you really are. Any application of your idea that could even remotely 'work' would effectively kill Gameplay. It would be a slow death, but it would be a death.

@Kassaran: Raiders who have malice (which is far from all of them) do so in the context of the game as well, just as rpers who rp with malice do in the context of their rps.

Roleplayers are not some special group of flowers that need magical protections against the rest of the game. You have the same tools everyone else does, and you don't deserve special treatment. The game mechanics are the same for everyone, and that's the way it should always be. And saying the site administration doesn't support you and doesn't care is the second biggest pile of hockey I've read on these forums today.

If I can't get an opt out from your crap, then I'm going to fight you, clan-waz style.

Is that a....challenge?!

(jk )

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Well if it's clear there's griefing going on, put it up in a GHR with any pertinent proof y'all have. Looking at my region, not seeing anything out of the ordinary. Simple enough to repress, to boot, to temp lock if needed. No delegate access, so nothing they can do.

As for complicated threads, believe me, I've run them. Multiple nations, dozens of posts, pages of responses, loads of ooc info ... the most recent wasn't as active as others, but hey. There's stuff, there's details, and I get that it can be daunting.

I also know from experience, it's possible. If it's too much for you, perhaps start smaller. As I've said for an eternity on here, you get out of it what you put into it. No need to make yourself miserable by taking on too much.

Ignore cannons are SO 2004. >_>

And another reminder to keep the responses chilly, please. Seeing some heat cropping up again, and that isn't likely to help anyone.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Have you seen some of the RP forums? Have you seen how some people RP? We can be infinitely worse than raiders, and operate our roleplay with far more malice intent than just a few laughs and giggles of raiding.

Raiders are just there to have fun, why does everyone keep demonizing them?

I don't demonize, but I do point out their motives. They have no interest in RP content, so thus they shouldn't involve themselves with our affairs, that including our regions. Regardless of their "game" they play, they have plenty of other targets to go after. Also, we operate our RP's with malice and gameplay [i]within our point of the game. They operate on all fronts, making them potentially dangerous to all...[/i]

That was the most reasonable answer anyone has given me as of yet.

[Kassaran]

Why the hell would you have believed that in the first place?

There is no 'soft' opt-out. There never has been. There's no such thing.

And to those people that say you're not proposing killing Gameplay - yes, you really are. Any application of your idea that could even remotely 'work' would effectively kill Gameplay. It would be a slow death, but it would be a death.

@Kassaran: Raiders who have malice (which is far from all of them) do so in the context of the game as well, just as rpers who rp with malice do in the context of their rps.

Roleplayers are not some special group of flowers that need magical protections against the rest of the game. You have the same tools everyone else does, and you don't deserve special treatment. The game mechanics are the same for everyone, and that's the way it should always be. And saying the site administration doesn't support you and doesn't care is the second biggest pile of hockey I've read on these forums today.

Hmmm, interesting that you refer to us as flowers, why do all R/D players think we see ourselves as such. Surely there must be some mass conspiracy or something. The problem is, Raiders DON'T RP. They simply don't. They appear, delete, leave calling card, retreat (rinse wash and repeat) and that's it! They run their aspect of the game like it's some sort of novelty that should have access to everything, yet from what I see, they honestly shouldn't. I don't see raiders attacking individual threads, though gameplay mechanics are there for them. You know why? Because moderation saw people put time into making them, and its annoying when you are open to attack, so they put into place the safeguards for it. However, they don't wish to do the same for regions even though they can literally be viewed as a thread that has various members, better GUI, and more personalized settings. Now what I don't get is that if people aren't allowed to raid forum threads, why can they raid the regions they come from?

[Tiltjuice]

I don't demonize, but I do point out their motives. They have no interest in RP content, so thus they shouldn't involve themselves with our affairs, that including our regions. Regardless of their "game" they play, they have plenty of other targets to go after. Also, we operate our RP's with malice and gameplay [i]within our point of the game. They operate on all fronts, making them potentially dangerous to all...[/i]

That was the most reasonable answer anyone has given me as of yet.

That was actually what I was trying to get at, but Kassaran phrased it much better - thanks K!

Meh. Running low on sleep and haven't eaten breakfast yet.

[Tano]

Hmmm, interesting that you refer to us as flowers, why do all R/D players think we see ourselves as such. Surely there must be some mass conspiracy or something. The problem is, Raiders DON'T RP. They simply don't. They appear, delete, leave calling card, retreat (rinse wash and repeat) and that's it! They run their aspect of the game like it's some sort of novelty that should have access to everything, yet from what I see, they honestly shouldn't. I don't see raiders attacking individual threads, though gameplay mechanics are there for them. You know why? Because moderation saw people put time into making them, and its annoying when you are open to attack, so they put into place the safeguards for it. However, they don't wish to do the same for regions even though they can literally be viewed as a thread that has various members, better GUI, and more personalized settings. Now what I don't get is that if people aren't allowed to raid forum threads, why can they raid the regions they come from?

Oy, I happen to RP (not on the NS forums though)

[Morrdh]

Don't like some goobers coming in and taking over your region for shits and giggles? Then found a region and take away WA delegate controls!

As has been stated this is not a practical solution for alot of RP regions.

Personally I see very little point in the whole R/D side of NS and in an ideal wouldn't have it around.

Alot of people who want no part of R/D are finding that they're being forced into it regardless, kinda like a neighbour playing music you dislike very loudly and then you being told "nothing you can do, just live with it".

That is what it feels like, at least I hope that shows why there is a great deal of frustration at present.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Don't like some goobers coming in and taking over your region for shits and giggles? Then found a region and take away WA delegate controls!

As has been stated this is not a practical solution for alot of RP regions.

How so? The only thing that appears to be the cause is laziness and lack of willingness to actually construct a fortified region, and even (correct me if I'm wrong please don't banhammer me) Nathi appears to see this...

That is what it feels like, at least I hope that shows why there is a great deal of frustration at present.

Sort of...

[Esternial]

WFE? That's it? Man, announcements can be made in a number of ways as well. Mass tg's. Notes on the RMB. It really isn't as key as some might like to think. I still haven't grasped this 'co-op' thing on the forums either. Either you're the OP, or you aren't. It's not as though we can track that sort of thing as mods. Been running things solo, as have most of the folks I rp with, for the entire time I've been on. Granted, doesn't mean y'all can't do it, but hey - its additional complications that are not, in fact, necessary to participation. Much like some of the kerfluffle here.

It's one example, yes. Some regions put a higher value in the WFE than you do. What is irrelevant to one may be essential to another. Also, anecdotes don't represent the entire community.

Not sure what you're getting into about the "Co-OP" thing. All I can say is that it's rather common in P2TM.

[Swith Witherward]

Ok, why is it necessary to have delegate controls active for an RP region? It's a place to stock your nations, to coordinate with other players, etc. I'm gathering that some of you RP on the RMB - like I said, I don't see this as ideal, given how you have to scroll so far back to see much, whereas a thread offers a much more viewable option. Personal preferences there, I suppose. But I'm not grasping why you need a delegate for that. It's a purely WA function.

Passwords, not necessary really unless you want to totally control who comes in and out. I suppose if you are spread across time zones and have delegates who split the time with the founder, that's a reason to have one. Still, it's also quite simple to tg the password to any interested players who'd like to join up. In fact, have one password for joining only, and switch it back to the standard, not seen by residents, for when you aren't accepting someone.

Like I said, there are a number of ways to handle it all. Some of us even took forums for things like groups/alliances/etc offsite for enhanced 'secrecy' and the like. There are tons of free forum-creation bits out there. It's no different from switching from RMB view to forum, that way - simply forum to forum instead.

I'm tossing out ideas here, folks. Recall what I said about compromise? GP has been severely compromised (some say rightly so) due to the nature of their game. I don't think its too much to ask that we RPers compromise a bit so that we can carry on as we'd like as well, without creating an entirely new ruleset for a fraction of the playerbase.

People RP on their RMB? I'd beat my players with dead caterpillars if they did that.

There are some RP regions who don't have a founder and so their RD needs to keep administrative control. I think this was a primary concern brought up by a few people.

My own region doesn't need for our RD have power although it makes my life so much easier because it takes the burden off of me. He's a CoOP for our primary game so you can kind of imagine how that transfers over to our region itself.



Nathi, I think a lot of people honestly see it as "We're not allowed to do this but they're allowed to do that!" (I'm neutral on that topic.)

I brought up the example earlier of a group of us RPers going to a non-RP forum and just starting to RP some game. We do it out of the blue, and perhaps on a raider or defender forum, or in someone's factbook, or maybe even during a heated conversation in General?

We couldn't though. We wouldn't. We realize that our unwelcome posts would be off-topic and spammy, and we'd certainly be warned. If we continued to thrust our RP on people, we'd see more than just a friendly warning. If we continued to do it after all that, we'd see a DEAT. If we returned and continued, we'd be DOS. Why? We're only doing what raiders do. We're disrupting someone's thread and forcing them into our game (regardless of them playing along or not.)

The only difference is that we're not allowed by Moderation to disrupt threads in that manner. We need to stay on topic. We can't derail. Etc. Why then must RPers be forced to play R/D? It's just as disruptive but it's allowable by Moderation. The RP region is derailed. It goes completely off topic. Tempers flare because there's flaming and trolling on the RMB. The only difference is that it's a gameside issue rather than a forum issue.

[Parone92]

I'll tell decius to file a GHR Nathanica, but take a look for yourself at The United Republic of Free Nations. He was offline less than half a day and his region was hit. They somehow got past his password and screwed up his region. What is the point in that? The safeguards don't work.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Well if it's clear there's griefing going on, put it up in a GHR with any pertinent proof y'all have. Looking at my region, not seeing anything out of the ordinary. Simple enough to repress, to boot, to temp lock if needed. No delegate access, so nothing they can do.

As for complicated threads, believe me, I've run them. Multiple nations, dozens of posts, pages of responses, loads of ooc info ... the most recent wasn't as active as others, but hey. There's stuff, there's details, and I get that it can be daunting.

I also know from experience, it's possible. If it's too much for you, perhaps start smaller. As I've said for an eternity on here, you get out of it what you put into it. No need to make yourself miserable by taking on too much.

Ignore cannons are SO 2004. >_>

And another reminder to keep the responses chilly, please. Seeing some heat cropping up again, and that isn't likely to help anyone.

If it could be made clear that NS can refer to backups to to resolve some valid region-related GHR requests where there is sufficient evidence, then I think most of the problems regarding griefing would be resolved. Thoughts?

I am trying as hard as you to find a way out of this without hurting either side.

[Anemos Major]

Well if it's clear there's griefing going on, put it up in a GHR with any pertinent proof y'all have. Looking at my region, not seeing anything out of the ordinary. Simple enough to repress, to boot, to temp lock if needed. No delegate access, so nothing they can do.

As for complicated threads, believe me, I've run them. Multiple nations, dozens of posts, pages of responses, loads of ooc info ... the most recent wasn't as active as others, but hey. There's stuff, there's details, and I get that it can be daunting.

I also know from experience, it's possible. If it's too much for you, perhaps start smaller. As I've said for an eternity on here, you get out of it what you put into it. No need to make yourself miserable by taking on too much.

Ignore cannons are SO 2004. >_>

And another reminder to keep the responses chilly, please. Seeing some heat cropping up again, and that isn't likely to help anyone.

There was quite a lot of griefing on the part of the raiders in the case of Greater Dienstad. :S Between the suppression of the entire RMB's contents from a period of two or three days and comments such as 'greater Dienstad just happened to pop up on our target list, it's random, we don't check what you do, we just raid and mess things up. And from now on will do this every update as long as we can ' [link] or 'There's no thing as a good defence against The Black Riders, If we want it, we take it sooner or later, again and again and again, until you leave ' [link], it just seems as though they're compounding what's already a fairly disruptive and disturbing situation for an open RPing region with gloating and the suggestion that players have to leave the region to escape the raiding. It's not difficult to see why RPers are becoming frustrated and then some by what is ultimately a very unfortunate situation for a very active part of Nationstates.

I'm not suggesting that all raiders are monsters, and I'm not trying to suggest that R/D needs to be abolished. But as pointed out over the past pages by other posters, there are legitimate reasons why RPing regions can't remove delegate powers outright (because a lot of these regions are long established entities with fairly inactive founders), and reasons why introducing a password inhibits the role played by key regions like Greater Dienstad (which is now password-protected following the raid the other day) in welcoming newer players to the RPing game and helping them develop within that context. If raiding was simply about entering a region, taking over it with a short spiel on the factbook entry and then leaving as part of the R/D 'game', that'd be absolutely fine - but they don't seem to be able to do it without wiping the entire factbook entry with a gloating declaration of success and then proceeding to suppress and harass the players of that region on the RMB. The conduct displayed by raiders in every instance I've seen of them entering an RPing region (which is where my limited experience lies) is, frankly, atrocious, and looking at what happened to Dienstad, it's a fairly standard example of the disruption that RPers want to get away from.

Raiders want to enjoy their game as well, and that's not what we want to infringe upon, but there comes a point where it becomes readily apparent that they know their particular mode of enjoyment is unnecessarily infringing upon our ability to do the same - at that point, it's not really unreasonable to want an opt-out of some sort.

[Kassaran]

Don't like some goobers coming in and taking over your region for shits and giggles? Then found a region and take away WA delegate controls!

As has been stated this is not a practical solution for alot of RP regions.

Personally I see very little point in the whole R/D side of NS and in an ideal wouldn't have it around.

Alot of people who want no part of R/D are finding that they're being forced into it regardless, kinda like a neighbour playing music you dislike very loudly and then you being told "nothing you can do, just live with it".

That is what it feels like, at least I hope that shows why there is a great deal of frustration at present.

It's actually more along the lines of, your neighbors have a very loud stereo they play with music you don't like, but because they aren't your house you don't do anything, but then when they walk into your house playing their loud music you don't like, you call the police and your friends only to discover that those people can be there regardless of your own rights within your house.

@Inyourfaceistan:

Laziness, really? Person gets called on tour for his country, can't access his nation which is the founder of a region and it gets swallowed by the Kraken and he's lazy?

Person get's extremely sick, injured, or in a coma, they cannot reach their computer to log onto their nation (which is the founder of a nation) and he's lazy?

Person loses internet connection capabilities, and the local libraries and college computer labs have security software keeping him from logging in, or even worse, he loses his password or his nation gets hacked, and he's lazy?

You neglect to face all the facts in stating we as the RPers need to defend ourselves from a game we quite simply don't want to play and shouldn't have to play because this is GOVERNMENT Simulator, not a raid-people-for-lolz simulator.

[Morrdh]

As has been stated this is not a practical solution for alot of RP regions.

How so? The only thing that appears to be the cause is laziness and lack of willingness to actually construct a fortified region, and even (correct me if I'm wrong please don't banhammer me) Nathi appears to see this...

Taking my home region Greater Dienstad for example, we never had a password because we were meant to be an open region that anyone could join. It was our reputation that we were a open and welcoming region for new RPers.

Having a delegate is useful for day-to-day admin such as updating the Factbook entry and ejecting troublemakers should the need arise, this is mainly because our Founder is largely inactive (such is life sometimes) but can be reached if needed. If the Regional Officers thing comes about and depending how it works we can do away with the delegate.

I do agree with the whole argument that our delegate should've had more endorsements, but not everyone wants to be in the WA and you can't force people to do what they don't want to do.

That is what it feels like, at least I hope that shows why there is a great deal of frustration at present.

Sort of...

Drop me a TG at some point if you want me to go into greater depth.

[Arumdaum]

Ok, why is it necessary to have delegate controls active for an RP region?

Inactive/dead founder.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

WFE? That's it? Man, announcements can be made in a number of ways as well. Mass tg's. Notes on the RMB. It really isn't as key as some might like to think. I still haven't grasped this 'co-op' thing on the forums either. Either you're the OP, or you aren't. It's not as though we can track that sort of thing as mods. Been running things solo, as have most of the folks I rp with, for the entire time I've been on. Granted, doesn't mean y'all can't do it, but hey - its additional complications that are not, in fact, necessary to participation. Much like some of the kerfluffle here.

It's one example, yes. Some regions put a higher value in the WFE than you do. What is irrelevant to one may be essential to another. Also, anecdotes don't represent the entire community.

Not sure what you're getting into about the "Co-OP" thing. All I can say is that it's rather common in P2TM.

P2TM is also a relatively new phenomenon Granted to the RP community on seeing a need for it, and likewise, argued in favor of vociferously by myself and others who wanted the creativity and rp that had been developing in F7 to have a more permanent home, in spite of being unrelated to NS in most cases. It has adapted and grown due to player interaction and development into what it now is.

As has GP. The restrictions that have been repeatedly placed on GP have been done so on the behalf of those not wishing to participate in it. I'm seeing 10+yr old arguments being repeated here, with the difference being that tools have been implemented where before, they did not exist.

The fact that they do not cater to all your needs does not negate the fact that they are available. No one of us has things exactly the way we would like on the site, due to it being as large and varied as it is, not only in the types of play that have grown to exist here, but the variety of players who have helped create it.

Inactive/dead founder? Irritating as it is, you can do what all regions have been able to and sometimes forced to do - refound. No, not the nicest solution, but often the one that has had to be taken, and not just by small regions. There's been some real doozies over the years.

What I'm encouraging players to do is to look for ways to adapt while looking into what may or may not be changed in the R/D summit and suggestion threads like this. Rather than rehashing old arguments, and tossing out more negativity than positive points for improvement.

As for any proofs of rulebreaking or nasty intent, it is best that you GHR it simply so that we have it properly noted, we can follow the paper trail so to speak, and any actions taken are locked and protected in the system where they can be traced, followed, and done above board. We have those protections in place for a reason as well - it's best to keep things nice, neat, and orderly when dealing with any complaints, or problems.

[The Fanboyists]

You're defenceless because you choose to be.

Here's three ways to not be defenceless.

1. Active founder.

2. Password.

3. More than two endoes on your delegate.

Edit: As for me 'not getting it', I was rping on this site a full six years before you made that nation you're posting on. I get it. I also get what you're not getting: Your game is not anymore important or valuable than anyone elses.

1. Founders are normal players, too; they can leave NS because they lose interest. Is the rest of the region just supposed to pack up and leave, too, because one person decided they'd had enough?

2. There's ways of infiltrating and getting the password. When taking applications for new members, you shouldn't have to be scared of them turning out to be a raider Trojan Horsing for their buddies.

3. Because "more than two" definitely helps when there's a coordinated hostile take-over using more people than your region even had previously (nevermind more WA Nations).


Main point: I'm glad other people came to the same conclusion that a transferable Foundership is the best , most-workable solution moving forward.

I see one (coherent) objection: The fact is, yes, it will reduce the number of regions available for raiding.

Well? So what. How is that our concern. We can't force R/D'ers to RP and participate in our subgame, they shouldn't be able to force us to play their side of the game. If Max has said our subgame is equally-valid, then why are we the only ones that have to be looking over our shoulders? Either R/D'ers should have to participate in our side of things (which is not a serious suggestion), or we should have more substantial, long-lasting safeguards against having to participate in theirs. So they'll have a few fewer targets. Big deal. It's not like there aren't plenty of other perfectly-willing participants in the R/D aspect of things. Maybe it'll make Raiders less lazy and more creative (and hopefully less asshol-ish), having to go up against regions that are actually prepared for them on a regular basis.

As for off-site RPing? Sure. That works really well if you want to stay part of a somewhat more-limited RP community. Not a knock on off-site RPing, but, like R/D, it's not for everyone. Some of us like being able to RP on the Diplomacy forums in addition to doing so with our regions. Being able to stay in NS in peace shouldn't be reliant on having to figure out how to play the WA & R/D game. It's that, or the only way there's community equality is if (again, not a serious proposal, just to illustrate the point) we were able to force R/D'ers to RP in order to raid.

The only reason we're calling for gameplay-based action now to give RP Regions more ability to stay out of R/D is because at least some groups of R/D'ers decided that a long-standing, if informal, limitation didn't apply to them any more.

I get that R/D'ers outnumber RP'ers. I get that you can't alienate that large segment of players. But, to use the "coyotes and sheep" metaphor that's been tossed around some, the only thing we're asking is that you set some limits on which sheep the coyotes can go after: the rams, for instance. That you not let the coyotes gorge themselves constantly, but make them work for their dinner. We're asking that even though we should, metaphorically speaking, still not walk down dark alleys alone and unarmed, that we should still be able to walk down an alley without fear of being mugged. We should only have to make contingencies and countermeasures against R/D because it's the smart thing to do, not the only survivable course of action.

If you're going to insist that the RP Community be proactive to stay out of the R/D game, so be it. At least give us the tools to do and maintain that successfully. For that, we need a permanent safe-guard. Transferable Foundership (preferably with provision for transferring if the Founder CTEs without designating a successor) would be a good start.

[The North Polish Union]

An exemption from R/D for a group of people based on the way they play the game is unfair to those who don't play the game that way (i.e. generalites, the GA folks, and people who don't even use the forums at all but just hang out with friends in their region).