Yep. So now, people are just throwing empty words out at each other, in hopes of...I honestly don't know what.
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by Tano » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:42 pm
Govindia: Do you consider me a friend, or just an acquaintance or what?
hobbes: I don't particularly consider anyone a true 'friend'
hobbes: at least,not on NS
Govindia: why is that?
hobbes: because
hobbes: everyone here is a jackass
hobbes: myself included
Pixie: *heart sploosh*
Tano: if your heart is splooshing you should contact a doctor
Tano: hearts are supposed to thump not sploosh
Pixie: No this is normal
Pixie: intense emotion causes me to hemorrage internally
Pixie: my life is like a really depressing comedic episode of The X-Files
Khron: we need an achievment of rem's face just for Tano
Pixie: haha
Pixie: "be Tano"
Brunhilde: My quotes should be in more signatures.
by The Fanboyists » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:14 pm
by ALMF » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:15 pm
by ALMF » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:18 pm
Evil Wolf wrote:Chrinthanium wrote:Quite frankly, I equate raiding to stealing because it is taking something that isn't yours by force for your own enjoyment. The raiders did not build that region, the raiders did not invest the time and effort into creating those forums, the raiders did not create the WFE or the regional flag, but now they have complete control over them and change them to shove it in the face of those from whom they've stolen the very region they called home. I, for one, do not call that fun, nor do I call that a game of any sort.
I like to call it Nationstates.net.Chrinthanium wrote:And the absolute worst idea ever invented by NationStates players would be utterly destroyed? Then, by all means, I am FOR this proposal.
You do realize that RP was invented by players too, if you want to get really snippy, and isn't hard coded into the game either. Raiding has just as much right to exist as RP does. Don't like it? Find another game, because we're not going to destroy the R/D sub-game in order avoid the minor and very occasional inconvenience it causes in yours.
by Esternial » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:23 pm
ALMF wrote:Evil Wolf wrote:
I like to call it Nationstates.net.
You do realize that RP was invented by players too, if you want to get really snippy, and isn't hard coded into the game either. Raiding has just as much right to exist as RP does. Don't like it? Find another game, because we're not going to destroy the R/D sub-game in order avoid the minor and very occasional inconvenience it causes in yours.
Evan if the existence of the "R/D sub-game" in effect eliminates RP?
by ALMF » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:29 pm
Chrinthanium wrote:My feelings on R/D should be extremely clear at this point, and I agree that some of us do disagree on the issue. Unfortunately, it's not going away no matter how much we argue for its abolishing. I agree that there should be some opt-out option that exempts a region from invasion whether or not the WA Delegate has executive controls. These new potential options seem like they may help fix the problem, but there is a fear in me about people with ulterior motives attempting to hijack regions with the new controls. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what they bring. Regardless, it will not change my mind on R/D.
by Chrinthanium » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:54 pm
ALMF wrote:Chrinthanium wrote:My feelings on R/D should be extremely clear at this point, and I agree that some of us do disagree on the issue. Unfortunately, it's not going away no matter how much we argue for its abolishing. I agree that there should be some opt-out option that exempts a region from invasion whether or not the WA Delegate has executive controls. These new potential options seem like they may help fix the problem, but there is a fear in me about people with ulterior motives attempting to hijack regions with the new controls. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what they bring. Regardless, it will not change my mind on R/D.
Or we can pass a (US) federal constitutional amendment to make it retroactively illegal and a crime agenst humanity.
by Grenartia » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:22 pm
Evil Wolf wrote:Chrinthanium wrote:
I like to call it stealing because that what it is.
What? Nationstates is not theft!Chrinthanium wrote:We're tired of being trampled by raiders. We have every right to be here as you do and to have our regions left untouched by unwelcome intrusions like an invasion. We're not going to leave just because you think that those of us of an opinion contrary to yours are wrong.
This 'we" you speak of does not include you, Chrinthanium. You reside in The Beach, a region of over 200 nations that has a Founder and it's delegate controls off. When Chrinthanium says "we", he do not speak of himself, for he has already made the smart and sensible decision to opt-out of R/D. He speaks of regions he has never seen and players he has never met or even spoken to on the forums and massive attacks against the RP community that never happened.
Chrinthanium, you already have the right to have your region "untouched by unwelcome intrusions like an invasion", and you have already taken it. I find it endlessly amusing tha the RPers in here who advocate exterminating the R/D game and suggest that it's harming RP do so from regions that can not be raided and are perfectly protected.
Delmonte wrote:Bears Armed wrote:A "solution" that, as you know full well, only works while the region's Founder still exists... and that is therefore no help at all for the 'founderless' regions who, for obvious reasons, seem to suffer the majority of your attacks.
Founderless roleplaying regions have a method of protection that requires nothing of them. They can seek protection under the Concordat. We already have one such region under our protection and they are enthusiastic with being able to go unpassworded and be completely safe.
Evil Wolf wrote:Chrinthanium wrote: And if the Founder should be away and administration is needed, then there is no one around to do it.
An your solution to this minor technical problem, one that the Regional Officers update shall fix, is to destroy Military Gameplay entirely.
Once again, the entire purpose of this thread is that some RPers felt that there was no way to Opt-Out of being raided. If you're arguing that Founders should never CTE and all regions should never be raided because that's bad and stuff, go make another thread.Chrinthanium wrote:Because they RP in a Founderless region, they are putting themselves at risk? Your reasoning is becoming ridiculous. The more you speak on raiding, the more you confirm that raiding is stealing. "They left it there for me to take, so I took it."
RPers can RP in any region they wish. If they choose to RP in a founderless region, they're probably going to get raided. The solution to this is to not RP in a founderless region. That way, you can't get raided and your RP session will not be interrupted. Any region that's founderless has the potential to be raided. Founderless RP regions are not special in this regard.
Evil Wolf wrote:Region Griefing, also known as Region Destruction, under the old Invasion Rules was illegal. Raiding was not. To say Raiding was ever illegal would be a falsehood.
On another note, Farfadillis, I find it ironic that you would destroy one part of the game for the simple convenience of another and then claim your intention is to save communities. R/D is not, by any stretch of the imagination, destroying RP as we know it. The hype simply does not live up to reality.
by Inyourfaceistan » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:33 pm
ALMF wrote:Evan if the existence of the "R/D sub-game" in effect eliminates RP?
by Grenartia » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:54 pm
by ALMF » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:59 am
Grenartia wrote:Inyourfaceistan wrote:
How? How the hell would a few blokes who like running around and electing themselves delegate of someone else's nation somehow prevent us from having our roleplay threads?
Because we use those regions to organize ourselves, and need the WAD to govern the region when the founder's away. When we get raided, there's a delay in the flow of information, which, even if a few hours long, can still kill an RP.
by Bears Armed » Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:56 am
As has been pointed out on numerous previous occasions, restricting your choice of targets shouldn't be enough to "destroy" R/D because if what you enjoy so much is the strategic struggle then there would still be nothing to keep you from fighting over the existing Warzones -- which were officially created for that very same purpose, after all -- or from setting up additional new regions yourselves as targets for fighting over.Evil Wolf wrote:On another note, Farfadillis, I find it ironic that you would destroy one part of the game for the simple convenience of another and then claim your intention is to save communities.
by The Fanboyists » Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:08 am
Chrinthanium wrote:
Not an opt-out. Just more ways to potentially invade a region. By definition, an opt-out feature is a one-stop-shop for removing the specified function completely. (I.E. when you sign up for a service online and, with one click, can opt out of receiving e-mail newsletters and you never get one). Further discussion on this specific topic as linked to by Mad Jack will be reserved for the appropriate thread.
by Charax » Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:23 am
Grenartia wrote:just to avoid having our regions raped and our RPs totally killed
by Evil Wolf » Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:24 am
Bears Armed wrote:As has been pointed out on numerous previous occasions, restricting your choice of targets shouldn't be enough to "destroy" R/D because if what you enjoy so much is the strategic struggle then there would still be nothing to keep you from fighting over the existing Warzones -- which were officially created for that purpose -- or from setting up new target regions yourselves for fighting over.Evil Wolf wrote:On another note, Farfadillis, I find it ironic that you would destroy one part of the game for the simple convenience of another and then claim your intention is to save communities.
Kryozerkia wrote:In the good old days raiding was illegal
Crazy Girl wrote:Invading was never illegal
[violet] wrote:There is supposed to be an invasion game.
by Charax » Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:45 am
Evil Wolf wrote:Secondly, I'd rather invade my eye with a fork than invade a Warzone. Even Defenders don't count Warzones as actual regions.
by Grenartia » Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:47 am
by Evil Wolf » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:05 am
Kryozerkia wrote:In the good old days raiding was illegal
Crazy Girl wrote:Invading was never illegal
[violet] wrote:There is supposed to be an invasion game.
by Farfadillis » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:18 am
Evil Wolf wrote:Bears Armed wrote:As has been pointed out on numerous previous occasions, restricting your choice of targets shouldn't be enough to "destroy" R/D because if what you enjoy so much is the strategic struggle then there would still be nothing to keep you from fighting over the existing Warzones -- which were officially created for that purpose -- or from setting up new target regions yourselves for fighting over.
Firstly, Farfadillis isn't advocating for a restriction of targets, he's pushing for the actual elimination of the R/D game. He's one of the few RPers in the thread actually asking for that and that comment was directed at him personally.
Secondly, I'd rather invade my eye with a fork than invade a Warzone. Even Defenders don't count Warzones as actual regions.
by Evil Wolf » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:22 am
Kryozerkia wrote:In the good old days raiding was illegal
Crazy Girl wrote:Invading was never illegal
[violet] wrote:There is supposed to be an invasion game.
by The Fanboyists » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:47 am
Evil Wolf wrote:But Farfadillis, think of the RPers who might start a session in one of the Warzones! Sure it's not even remotely a smart move, but they have a right to RP wherever they want and those mean, terrible, nasty invaders have no right to destroy an RP community, even if it is firmly in the middle of a Warzone.
by Esternial » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:51 am
Grenartia wrote:
Except, your deal with the devil inherently forces RPers to participate in R/D. Having to side with raiders is just as bad as having to raid and as having to side with/become defenders.
Give us associations (or something like them), make it against the rules to raid them, and everything will be fine.
by Grenartia » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:50 am
Esternial wrote:Grenartia wrote:
Except, your deal with the devil inherently forces RPers to participate in R/D. Having to side with raiders is just as bad as having to raid and as having to side with/become defenders.
Give us associations (or something like them), make it against the rules to raid them, and everything will be fine.
1. Everyone has their own methods, and if Delmonte wants to proceed down this avenue that's his choice. I'm sure some regions will subscribe to his suggestion and that's their choice. We can't claim to speak for the whole of the RP community.
2. I agree that we should get associations, but I oppose demanding a rule because it'll get us nowhere.
by Delmonte » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:58 am
Grenartia wrote:Esternial wrote:1. Everyone has their own methods, and if Delmonte wants to proceed down this avenue that's his choice. I'm sure some regions will subscribe to his suggestion and that's their choice. We can't claim to speak for the whole of the RP community.
2. I agree that we should get associations, but I oppose demanding a rule because it'll get us nowhere.
1. I was just trying to criticize the implication on Del's part that all RPers should make the deal.
2. I wasn't demanding. I was just saying what I believe would resolve this problem the best.
The Batorys wrote:The Delmontese like money, yeah, but they also like to throw down.
[b][color=#0000FF][background=red]United in Opposition to [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=303025]Liberate Haven[/url][/background][/color][/b]
[color=#FF0000][b]Mallorea and Riva should [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=303090]resign[/url][/b][/color]
by Farfadillis » Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:13 am
Evil Wolf wrote:But Farfadillis, think of the RPers who might start a session in one of the Warzones! Sure it's not even remotely a smart move, but they have a right to RP wherever they want and those mean, terrible, nasty invaders have no right to destroy an RP community, even if it is firmly in the middle of a Warzone.
The Fanboyists wrote:^ He's actually got a point, of sorts. If we start asking for something that approaches a blanket opt-out for RPing, the thing is RP'ers might start getting used as shields; if a couple of RP'ers happen to be in a non-RPing region, they might still cry foul about R/D. I'm not saying that's necessarily a thing that would happen, but there's a reason we need a solution of protection better than either being forced to involve ourselves in R/D or crying foul to the mods every time something happens. And why improving existing regional protection systems so that RP'ers aren't as inconvenienced by protecting themselves is probably the most-workable solution for both sides.
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