Regional 'opt-out' for R/D? [Gameplay/Proposal]

[Bone Fort]

This changes what exactly? The "we" they said is implied to mean "roleplayers" due to its context. And how do you know they don't have a presence in other RP regions?

I'd like to point out that Ainin resides currently in Esquarium, a region which, since it's founder has elected to enable Delegate Controls, has a Delegate that has 22 endorsements. This would make them very much immune from most raids, since I know of no raider group that would sink 24 players into raiding a founder region at update.

I'm just merely pointing out that many RPers in this thread that complain about Raiding and how destructive it is to the RP Community do so from behind some very well protected regions that either can't be raided, because of game mechanics, or have made themselves such an unappetizing target, no raider in their right mind would even bother.

This is, in all honesty, quite possibly the worst argument I've heard this entire thread. I've never been raped, or mugged, or even assaulted, but if I say "I think crimes like rape and mugging hand assault are terrible and something should be done about them", is my statement any less valid?

[Inyourfaceistan]

I'd like to point out that Ainin resides currently in Esquarium, a region which, since it's founder has elected to enable Delegate Controls, has a Delegate that has 22 endorsements. This would make them very much immune from most raids, since I know of no raider group that would sink 24 players into raiding a founder region at update.

I'm just merely pointing out that many RPers in this thread that complain about Raiding and how destructive it is to the RP Community do so from behind some very well protected regions that either can't be raided, because of game mechanics, or have made themselves such an unappetizing target, no raider in their right mind would even bother.

This is, in all honesty, quite possibly the worst argument I've heard this entire thread. I've never been raped, or mugged, or even assaulted, but if I say "I think crimes like rape and mugging hand assault are terrible and something should be done about them", is my statement any less valid?

But there you go equating raiding to some sort of crime. It's not, it's just how they play the game.

Don't like it, then use the tools available to stop it.

Don't want to use them? Too bad.

[Delmonte]

I'd like to point out that Ainin resides currently in Esquarium, a region which, since it's founder has elected to enable Delegate Controls, has a Delegate that has 22 endorsements. This would make them very much immune from most raids, since I know of no raider group that would sink 24 players into raiding a founder region at update.

I'm just merely pointing out that many RPers in this thread that complain about Raiding and how destructive it is to the RP Community do so from behind some very well protected regions that either can't be raided, because of game mechanics, or have made themselves such an unappetizing target, no raider in their right mind would even bother.

This is, in all honesty, quite possibly the worst argument I've heard this entire thread. I've never been raped, or mugged, or even assaulted, but if I say "I think crimes like rape and mugging hand assault are terrible and something should be done about them", is my statement any less valid?

No, but that's not what he's saying. It would be more like medieval Britons building a strong castle to keep the Vikings out and then complaining that nobody had any way to keep the Vikings out... From the safety of their castle. Is what I think he's trying to say.

This is, in all honesty, quite possibly the worst argument I've heard this entire thread. I've never been raped, or mugged, or even assaulted, but if I say "I think crimes like rape and mugging hand assault are terrible and something should be done about them", is my statement any less valid?

But there you go equating raiding to some sort of crime. It's not, it's just how they play the game.

Don't like it, then use the tools available to stop it.

Don't want to use them? Too bad.

It is a game that comes at the expense of others, unfortunately. But that doesn't mean we should dismiss meeting raiders at the negotiating table as a valid option for bringing an end to this.

[Ainin]

Id like to point out that Ainin resides currently in Esquarium,

I have no idea what could have possibly given you that impression.

a region which, since it's founder has elected to enable Delegate Controls,

It's necessary because our founder is often busy, and we need the WFE updated.

has a Delegate that has 22 endorsements. This would make them very much immune from most raids, since I know of no raider group that would sink 24 players into raiding a founder region at update.

And when did I claim otherwise? Tu quoque isn't an argument, and this is just grasping at straws.

I'm just merely pointing out that many RPers in this thread that complain about Raiding and how destructive it is to the RP Community do so from behind some very well protected regions that either can't be raided, because of game mechanics, or have made themselves such an unappetizing target, no raider in their right mind would even bother.

What's wrong with having solidarity amongst RPers but ok for raiders?

[Bone Fort]

This is, in all honesty, quite possibly the worst argument I've heard this entire thread. I've never been raped, or mugged, or even assaulted, but if I say "I think crimes like rape and mugging hand assault are terrible and something should be done about them", is my statement any less valid?

But there you go equating raiding to some sort of crime. It's not, it's just how they play the game.

Don't like it, then use the tools available to stop it.

Don't want to use them? Too bad.

I wasn't equating them to a crime, I was pointing out the failure of his logic. It works with positive actions as well. I think feeding starving orphans in Africa is a good thing, yet I haven't actually feed a starving African orphan. Again I ask, is my statement any less valid?

[Inyourfaceistan]

But there you go equating raiding to some sort of crime. It's not, it's just how they play the game.

Don't like it, then use the tools available to stop it.

Don't want to use them? Too bad.

I wasn't equating them to a crime, I was pointing out the failure of his logic. It works with positive actions as well. I think feeding starving orphans in Africa is a good thing, yet I haven't actually feed a starving African orphan. Again I ask, is my statement any less valid?

I see what your saying. Yeah, you're right.

[Delmonte]

But there you go equating raiding to some sort of crime. It's not, it's just how they play the game.

Don't like it, then use the tools available to stop it.

Don't want to use them? Too bad.

I wasn't equating them to a crime, I was pointing out the failure of his logic. It works with positive actions as well. I think feeding starving orphans in Africa is a good thing, yet I haven't actually feed a starving African orphan. Again I ask, is my statement any less valid?

It is if you say it between mouthfuls of cheeseburger. Is what would complete your metaphor to be in line with what Evil Wolf is saying.

"We couldn't- *munch*- possibly- *om nom*- feed the starving Africans! There's not enough- *gulp* food! *sluuuuuurp*"

[SFBA wabbitslayah]

Wolf is right guys, sorry. His argument isn't bullshit. He's been crashing for many many years, most of you haven't. You're talking to the guy who'd rip your region to shreds just cause who is giving you advice and setting you straight on gameplay ignorance.

[Bone Fort]

I wasn't equating them to a crime, I was pointing out the failure of his logic. It works with positive actions as well. I think feeding starving orphans in Africa is a good thing, yet I haven't actually feed a starving African orphan. Again I ask, is my statement any less valid?

I see what your saying. Yeah, you're right.

So then, with that established, an RPer says he thinks raiding is wrong for whatever reason. Now, regardless of whether you think raiding is valid or not, should the fact that said RPer has never been affected by a raid have any bearing whatsoever in that debate? Or was your previous statement a lie and you actually think I am wrong and that my statements about rape, muggings, assault, and starving orphans are not valid?

[Grenartia]

And not without good reason. We shouldn't have to constantly worry about Big Bubba having his way with us because we want to keep our regions open to newcomers, and to keep our regions running when, as this person points out, the founder is offline:

Grenartia, you're in Ankh Mauta, a region which has it's Delegate Controls off. Who is this "we" you speak of?

I find it ironic that a player who is adamant that RPers "have to constantly worry about Big Bubba having his way with us" does so from a region which can not be raided in its current condition.

AM only turned it off after I warned them of threats from the gameplay IRC of increased raiding against RP regions (the "we" in my post, which I've explained multiple times in this thread. You raiders keep speaking of "raider unity". Is it not so foreign to you that we RPers have our own form of unity?). Its all in the RMB and regional happenings if you care to check.

What's wrong with having solidarity amongst RPers but ok for raiders?

Nothing, but for him to stand there and says "Oh, RPers can't protect themselves because of reasons!" when he's sitting in a region that clearly shows they can is more than a little hypocritical.

We're only doing it because ATM raiders are more likely to raid RP regions, because we 'have the gall' to speak against raiders. Also, my preferred pronoun set is they/them/their.

This changes what exactly? The "we" they said is implied to mean "roleplayers" due to its context. And how do you know they don't have a presence in other RP regions?

I'd like to point out that Ainin resides currently in Esquarium, a region which, since it's founder has elected to enable Delegate Controls, has a Delegate that has 22 endorsements. This would make them very much immune from most raids, since I know of no raider group that would sink 24 players into raiding a founder region at update.

I'm just merely pointing out that many RPers in this thread that complain about Raiding and how destructive it is to the RP Community do so from behind some very well protected regions that either can't be raided, because of game mechanics, or have made themselves such an unappetizing target, no raider in their right mind would even bother.

What we're speaking out against is the fact that we should be having to do these things in the first fucking place.

I'd like to point out that Ainin resides currently in Esquarium, a region which, since it's founder has elected to enable Delegate Controls, has a Delegate that has 22 endorsements. This would make them very much immune from most raids, since I know of no raider group that would sink 24 players into raiding a founder region at update.

I'm just merely pointing out that many RPers in this thread that complain about Raiding and how destructive it is to the RP Community do so from behind some very well protected regions that either can't be raided, because of game mechanics, or have made themselves such an unappetizing target, no raider in their right mind would even bother.

This is, in all honesty, quite possibly the worst argument I've heard this entire thread. I've never been raped, or mugged, or even assaulted, but if I say "I think crimes like rape and mugging hand assault are terrible and something should be done about them", is my statement any less valid?

Obviously, it is.

Id like to point out that Ainin resides currently in Esquarium,

I have no idea what could have possibly given you that impression.

a region which, since it's founder has elected to enable Delegate Controls,

It's necessary because our founder is often busy, and we need the WFE updated.

has a Delegate that has 22 endorsements. This would make them very much immune from most raids, since I know of no raider group that would sink 24 players into raiding a founder region at update.

And when did I claim otherwise? Tu quoque isn't an argument, and this is just grasping at straws.

I'm just merely pointing out that many RPers in this thread that complain about Raiding and how destructive it is to the RP Community do so from behind some very well protected regions that either can't be raided, because of game mechanics, or have made themselves such an unappetizing target, no raider in their right mind would even bother.

What's wrong with having solidarity amongst RPers but ok for raiders?

Exactly.

[Evil Wolf]

This is, in all honesty, quite possibly the worst argument I've heard this entire thread. I've never been raped, or mugged, or even assaulted, but if I say "I think crimes like rape and mugging hand assault are terrible and something should be done about them", is my statement any less valid?

Delegate Bone Fort (9 endorsements) of The Apartment Block (32 nations, founder, delegate controls disabled), it's been said many times in this thread that RPers have no way to opt-out of raiding. When pointed out that RPers can just RP in a region with a founder and delegate controls disabled and that's the same as an opt-out, some RP players, like Grenartia, have been arguing that there are reasons that RPers can't do that.

However, despite this claim, it seems that the majority of RPers reside in regions with founder and a lot of those founders have the delegate controls off. If this is true, then the claim that RPers can not protect themselves from raids, rather than simply choose not, rings empty.

AM only turned it off after I warned them of threats from the gameplay IRC of increased raiding against RP regions (the "we" in my post, which I've explained multiple times in this thread.

Ah, good. I'm glad we've established that RPers, once aware of the risks, actually have the ability to opt-out by turning off the delegate controls. I think you've proven my point.

[Crystal Spires]

This is, in all honesty, quite possibly the worst argument I've heard this entire thread. I've never been raped, or mugged, or even assaulted, but if I say "I think crimes like rape and mugging hand assault are terrible and something should be done about them", is my statement any less valid?

Delegate Bone Fort (9 endorsements) of The Apartment Block (32 nations, founder, delegate controls disabled), it's been said many times in this thread that RPers have no way to opt-out of raiding. When pointed out that RPers can just RP in a region with a founder and delegate controls disabled and that's the same as an opt-out, some RP players, like Grenartia, have been arguing that there are reasons that RPers can't do that.

However, despite this claim, it seems that the majority of RPers reside in regions with founder and a lot of those founders have the delegate controls off. If this is true, then the claim that RPers can not protect themselves from raids, rather than simply choose not, rings empty.

That is not the universal claim and it is not our grievances. Our grievances that the 'methods used to protect our regions disables our ability to RP effectively'. This is true.

[Ainin]

Wolf is right guys, sorry. His argument isn't bullshit. He's been crashing for many many years, most of you haven't. You're talking to the guy who'd rip your region to shreds just cause who is giving you advice and setting you straight on gameplay ignorance.

"Wolf is right."
"Why is he right?"
"Because his argument isn't bullshit."
"Why isn't his argument bullshit?"
"Because he's been crashing for many many years."

That makes no sense.

I wasn't equating them to a crime, I was pointing out the failure of his logic. It works with positive actions as well. I think feeding starving orphans in Africa is a good thing, yet I haven't actually feed a starving African orphan. Again I ask, is my statement any less valid?

It is if you say it between mouthfuls of cheeseburger. Is what would complete your metaphor to be in line with what Evil Wolf is saying.

"We couldn't- *munch*- possibly- *om nom*- feed the starving Africans! There's not enough- *gulp* food! *sluuuuuurp*"

That is an extremely exaggerated allegory.

It's the equivalent of reading the news about a mugger who assault people by entering through their chimneys, and then thinking something should be done about it. Just because you don't have a chimney doesn't make your opinion any less valid.

[Grenartia]

Delegate Bone Fort (9 endorsements) of The Apartment Block (32 nations, founder, delegate controls disabled), it's been said many times in this thread that RPers have no way to opt-out of raiding. When pointed out that RPers can just RP in a region with a founder and delegate controls disabled and that's the same as an opt-out, some RP players, like Grenartia, have been arguing that there are reasons that RPers can't do that.

However, despite this claim, it seems that the majority of RPers reside in regions with founder and a lot of those founders have the delegate controls off. If this is true, then the claim that RPers can not protect themselves from raids, rather than simply choose not, rings empty.

That is not the universal claim and it is not our grievances. Our grievances that the 'methods used to protect our regions disables our ability to RP effectively'. This is true.

Indeed.

[Rephesus]

What's wrong with having solidarity amongst RPers but ok for raiders?

Nothing, but for him to stand there and says "Oh, RPers can't protect themselves because of reasons!" when he's sitting in a region that clearly shows they can is more than a little hypocritical.

Greater Dienstad and Lucerna both put in place temporary passwords, many other regions have taken other measures to protect against raiders until the discussions have some sort of result. If GD wasn't raided and this issue wasn't created it's safe to say there would be less of a hype over this and thus your raiding (Your as in all raiders, because of your supposed "solidarity) has caused protection against raiding from people who don't want to put such measures in place but feel obliged to.

Ironic, isn't it?

[Delmonte]

Wolf is right guys, sorry. His argument isn't bullshit. He's been crashing for many many years, most of you haven't. You're talking to the guy who'd rip your region to shreds just cause who is giving you advice and setting you straight on gameplay ignorance.

"Wolf is right."
"Why is he right?"
"Because his argument isn't bullshit."
"Why isn't his argument bullshit?"
"Because he's been crashing for many many years."

That makes no sense.

It is if you say it between mouthfuls of cheeseburger. Is what would complete your metaphor to be in line with what Evil Wolf is saying.

"We couldn't- *munch*- possibly- *om nom*- feed the starving Africans! There's not enough- *gulp* food! *sluuuuuurp*"

That is an extremely exaggerated allegory.

It's the equivalent of reading the news about a mugger who assault people by entering through their chimneys, and then thinking something should be done about it. Just because you don't have a chimney doesn't make your opinion any less valid.

My allegory was about talking while eating. Yours is about a deranged madman who sneaks into houses through chimneys dressed, in all probability, like Santa Claus, and my allegory is exaggerated?

[Bone Fort]

This is, in all honesty, quite possibly the worst argument I've heard this entire thread. I've never been raped, or mugged, or even assaulted, but if I say "I think crimes like rape and mugging hand assault are terrible and something should be done about them", is my statement any less valid?

Delegate Bone Fort (9 endorsements) of The Apartment Block (32 nations, founder, delegate controls disabled), it's been said many times in this thread that RPers have no way to opt-out of raiding. When pointed out that RPers can just RP in a region with a founder and delegate controls disabled and that's the same as an opt-out, some RP players, like Grenartia, have been arguing that there are reasons that RPers can't do that.

However, despite this claim, it seems that the majority of RPers reside in regions with founder and a lot of those founders have the delegate controls off. If this is true, then the claim that RPers can not protect themselves from raids, rather than simply choose not, rings empty.

And if some people who protest against human rights violations have never experienced one, does that mean they're wrong? Did you bother to read what I stated? What anyone's stated? Or will you just tirelessly repeat the same arguments the raiders and their supporters have been being forth and us RPers have been refuting again and again?

[Crystal Spires]

They close off a Region makes it less open to new RP'ers, increasing the difficulty of Regional Recruiting for Roleplayers. We've had trouble with this in the past and people who are new do not contact locked RP regions. It also disrupts communication with other RPers for Interregional affairs making it harder to collaborate on interregional roleplay. It interrupts people who play Portal to Multiverse who need both founders and delegates to actively participate in sorting out the threads and stopping the play and announcements actively inhibit their roleplays. It forces RP regions to undergo a vigorous vetting process to allow people into the region which is inhibiting recruiting efforts even more than the passwords. It is forced upon an unwilling RP Community who does not want to participate in R&D. Raiders acquire the passwords and ruin work that the RP authors spend time and effort to organize for the sake of roleplaying.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Delegate Bone Fort (9 endorsements) of The Apartment Block (32 nations, founder, delegate controls disabled), it's been said many times in this thread that RPers have no way to opt-out of raiding. When pointed out that RPers can just RP in a region with a founder and delegate controls disabled and that's the same as an opt-out, some RP players, like Grenartia, have been arguing that there are reasons that RPers can't do that.

However, despite this claim, it seems that the majority of RPers reside in regions with founder and a lot of those founders have the delegate controls off. If this is true, then the claim that RPers can not protect themselves from raids, rather than simply choose not, rings empty.

That is not the universal claim and it is not our grievances. Our grievances that the 'methods used to protect our regions disables our ability to RP effectively'. This is true.

How? How the heck does it stop us from RP'ing effectively? Care to explain?

[Evil Wolf]

Our grievances that the 'methods used to protect our regions disables our ability to RP effectively'. This is true.

Really? So then why does your region, Mystria (53 nations), have a founder, the Delegate Controls disabled, and a password that is visible to the residents? I'm inclined to believe if the methods that protect your region crippled your RPing, you'd not currently have them in place. Yet, there they are.

[The Republic of Lanos]

Our grievances that the 'methods used to protect our regions disables our ability to RP effectively'. This is true.

Really? So then why does your region, Mystria, which has 53 nations, a founder, the Delegate Controls disabled, and a password that is visible to the residents? I'm inclined to believe if the methods that protect your region crippled your RPing, you'd not currently have them in place. Yet, there they are.

Did you skip any of the above posts of people implementing these measures to protect against raids?

Did you? I think you did.

[Crystal Spires]

Our grievances that the 'methods used to protect our regions disables our ability to RP effectively'. This is true.

Really? So then why does your region, Mystria, which has 53 nations, have a founder, the Delegate Controls disabled, and a password that is visible to the residents? I'm inclined to believe if the methods that protect your region crippled your RPing, you'd not currently have them in place. Yet, there they are.

We have had to change it just today with 3 people posing as recruits who were actually raiders, and we have had to actually kill much of our recruiting efforts, we've had to lock our region which would otherwise be open. You've effectively killed our recruiting efforts to Mystria. Thanks for that.

[Evil Wolf]

We have had to change it just today with 3 people posing as recruits who were actually raiders, and we have had to actually kill much of our recruiting efforts, we've had to lock our region which would otherwise be open. You've effectively killed our recruiting efforts to Mystria. Thanks for that.

The password, to be honest, is overkill. You don't need it, the Delegate Controls being off protects you completely, even if there were raiders in your region. Don't try to blame me for your region's lack of understanding regarding game mechanics.

[The Republic of Lanos]

Don't try to blame me for your region's lack of understanding regarding game mechanics.

Uh huh. Well:

Grenartia, you're in Ankh Mauta, a region which has it's Delegate Controls off. Who is this "we" you speak of?

I find it ironic that a player who is adamant that RPers "have to constantly worry about Big Bubba having his way with us" does so from a region which can not be raided in its current condition.

AM only turned it off after I warned them of threats from the gameplay IRC of increased raiding against RP regions (the "we" in my post, which I've explained multiple times in this thread. You raiders keep speaking of "raider unity". Is it not so foreign to you that we RPers have our own form of unity?). Its all in the RMB and regional happenings if you care to check.

Nothing, but for him to stand there and says "Oh, RPers can't protect themselves because of reasons!" when he's sitting in a region that clearly shows they can is more than a little hypocritical.

Greater Dienstad and Lucerna both put in place temporary passwords, many other regions have taken other measures to protect against raiders until the discussions have some sort of result. If GD wasn't raided and this issue wasn't created it's safe to say there would be less of a hype over this and thus your raiding (Your as in all raiders, because of your supposed "solidarity) has caused protection against raiding from people who don't want to put such measures in place but feel obliged to.

Ironic, isn't it?

[Kassaran]

This is, in all honesty, quite possibly the worst argument I've heard this entire thread. I've never been raped, or mugged, or even assaulted, but if I say "I think crimes like rape and mugging hand assault are terrible and something should be done about them", is my statement any less valid?

Delegate Bone Fort (9 endorsements) of The Apartment Block (32 nations, founder, delegate controls disabled), it's been said many times in this thread that RPers have to way to opt-out of raiding. When pointed out that RPers can just RP in a region with a founder and delegate controls disabled and that's the same as an opt-out, some RP players, like Grenartia, have been arguing that there are reasons that RPers can't do that.

However, despite this claim, it seems that the majority of RPers reside in regions with founder and a lot of those founders have the delegate controls off. If this is true, then the claim that RPers can not protect themselves from raids, rather than simply choose not, rings empty.

The majority of them now reside inside such regions now, but only because of 'raiders' and their inability to understand what they do does mess with what we do. now we'd be less hurt over it if we could be assured that nothing more than having a little stamp placed on our region occurred, but you all still have yet to validate why that aspect of R/D, the griefing, should be allowed. Again, its RP being told by GP to bend over and bite the pillow because apparently you have the ability to go wherever you want because your the one "important" aspect of the site that apparently brings in "new" players. I honestly feel as though most are simply raiders wanting puppets for more successful raids.

I hope you all realize you're having to defend yourselves only because a few knuckleheads from your aspect of gameplay came over and attacked a rather prominent region in our aspect of gameplay. Right? I know people keep saying there is no "us or them" mentality, but it truly is, when I first started out here, there was hopes for that, but as more and more "raiders" appear from the woodwork, they keep expressing the same knee-jerk reaction to the idea that regions should be able to opt out of G/D. Well why the Hell not? There are over 1500+ pages of regions on the site, of which only 48 pages of those are RP regions. If 48 again is too many regions for raiders to handle leaving, maybe this aspect of gameplay never should of been invoked. It obviously is utilized as a trolling element by many and the added insult to injury that you feel this site is only for GP now, is at most preposterous. Again I bring up the point of saying it started as an exploit for features introduced for RP Regions to RP more efficiently. We were here first, it was only through the mistakes of others that you came about.

There [i]have been arguments that you "RP" in your own special way, perhaps, but its not nation RP, it's character RP, because to simulate a nation, you must run a tax system, you must have unexplainable phenomena, branches of government (or a lack thereof) and infrastructure that revolves around the citizens of said nation (or around the whims of their dictator). Now, when people "move" regions, it's like picking up a huge chunk of land off of the planet and placing it somewhere else. RPers look for places that they can "integrate" and become stationary and thus add to the realistic aspect of a nation simulator. We often begin wars we won't win, regardless of what we feel a predetermined outcome might be and we fight more realistically than people in R/D. Pompous of me to say you might think? Perhaps, but here's my reasoning.

A raider's constant moving of his nation to "invade" regions is more along the lines of a roving bandit camp, but they don't even RP the movement, thus they simply teleport to wherever they want, sit down to squirt out a few farts, then retreat back home squealing with delight in the fact they just stank up someone's room. There is no honor in that, and it's almost pure trolling. Now what part of the above is even slightly sim-like?