[Change #2] Delegate Elect

[Nephmir]

[Redacted]

[Cerian Quilor]

What would those 'defenses' be?

[Nephmir]

[Redacted]

[Cerian Quilor]

So not a new idea, just what's already been discussed.

[Astarial]

I've been thinking perhaps we should let regions set this for themselves, rather than imposing a global algorithm. So each region would have an option like "[X] Enable Delegate-Elect," and could specify the time period to elapse before a new delegate received his/her powers.

I'm not totally opposed to this, but I do have some concerns.

12-hours of delegate-elect in a raid is manageable - enough time for both sides to marshal their resources and have a genuine siege-off. Longer than that, and defenders will outnumber raiders practically every time. That's not balanced.. and if regions can pick the length of time it will last, why on earth wouldn't they pick several days and guarantee a raider loss?

Second is the margin - we've discussed a gap of 2-3 endos to trigger this status, which is close enough that it makes sense to go into a second round of sorts - but if regions can set this, why wouldn't they pick something so high as to be unattainable, again guaranteeing that raiders won't be able to avoid going into DE and again, guaranteeing a loss?

I like the idea of regions having some freedom of implementation, but giving these two factors this kind of wiggle room seems like it will radically unbalance things.

[Americans]

If it is optional will it be made public what a region chooses, like with executive delegates? I think "No" would be an interesting choice, since raiders should then operate on the assumption that it is enabled.

Another question posed by making it optional: Does it become effective immediately when a delegate turns it on? Because if so raiders (I would expect) will turn it on when they occupy a region to make it just a bit harder (or at least longer) for defenders. Not that there's a problem with that, it sounds just fine to me.

[Improving Wordiness]

Is this discussion still ongoing?
I wondered if setting a % percentage would be workable?
Rather than having to set a required amount of endorsements to qualify and making a hard line rule on what is considered a relevant sized region setting a minimum % on all regions before delegate elect circumstance is triggered.
A setting of 10% and below would likely be a soft enough trigger that it provides a safety net while not being too restrictive on "large" regions or "tiny" regions.

[Nephmir]

I'd say 10% is reasonable. (That's 1 endorsement per 10 endorsements as a margin, to put it into perspective)

[New Stellonia]

I guess this should be made optional within regions, rather than mandatory.

[Flanderlion]

So with the powers a Delegate-Elect gains, what sort of powers should they/would they get?

Obviously they would need to be able to dismiss RO's, but be unable to appoint them.
Would they have power over anything else, be it polls, or the WFE?

[Aurum Rider]

So with the powers a Delegate-Elect gains, what sort of powers should they/would they get?

Obviously they would need to be able to dismiss RO's, but be unable to appoint them.
Would they have power over anything else, be it polls, or the WFE?

With Delegate Elect, the Delegate should lose all Power, as should all ROs. I'll explain why

Region Delegate has 15 endorsements, and one RO with border control
Raider force moves in with 18 endorsements, but Defenders move in supplying the region with 2 more endorsements, leaving a 1 endorsement gap.
Delegate elect happens.

Over the next 12 hours, the region's RO banjects all the Raider's support while the defenders pile on 5 more endorsements. Because nations enter a region with no influence, the RO gets to ban any support the raiders bring in with no consequences.

It basically means that Regions with border control ROs are invulnerable to invading forces that don't have the endorsements at the initial invasion to eclipse the defending delegate.

[Evil Wolf]

It basically means that Regions with border control ROs are invulnerable to invading forces that don't have the endorsements at the initial invasion to eclipse the defending delegate.

Huh...

I don't think anyone in this thread had thought of that possibility. Good catch.

[Common Territories]

Sorry if this was somehow answered in an earlier portion but I wanted to be sure of my own status regarding this change.

I understand there's a timer for the delegate elect but as far as I read it (I only read the OP for the moment so sorry if I missed some changes down the line) this elect status is only granted when the margin is tight. I don't fully understand the powers these delegates receive automatically now and if it's based solely on there being restrictions Delegate Elect R/D fights. So I'd like to ask using my own situation as an example so I can prepare for this change.

I run a puppet dump essentially that acts as my primary base of operations in the RP world. It operates as my base region since I've never really found a good fit in one RP community alone - so years ago I decided it best to make an HQ region after seeing one example do alright for itself. I am the founder of said region (I control the puppet anyways that founded my HQ region) and I've never had a delegate for the region since it's just my personal puppet dump. I've allowed just about anyone to dump their puppet in the region since it is a puppet dump but I still reserve the region as my home base over that puppet storage status. Now as far a I have read this change, it grants delegates powers regardless if the founder set them to have any or not. At the moment I have them set to have no powers so even if I do become a raiding target they wont be able to do anything besides spam my RMB - but im now worried with this change that they'll have powers to go around my authority as founder and perform raiding vandalism regardless if I allowed the delegate powers. I would like to know that in the case of a raid, would the raider delegate get any powers that would actually affect my puppets, my account, and my region in any possible way. The raider would easily have a majority since I can muster only one military account myself without defender help so im not even sure Delegate Elect would be a component here since as far as I read it's mostly for close call fight scenario. I am pretty much the only person active in my HQ region so it wouldn't be hard to raid if it wasn't properly administered in the past.

I'd like to learn more about this change so I know if I have to take extra steps to ensure my region is still safe from a serious raider attack. Thanks.

[Zacherie]

This change, to my knowledge, will not give a non-executive delegate power over the region.

[Flying Circus 6]

Can someone reiterate this simpler please?

Unlike the other proposals, this is confusing.

[Zacherie]

Can someone reiterate this simpler please?

Unlike the other proposals, this is confusing.

Basically, if two people being voted for WA Delegate are too close in votes, neither of them get it for 12 hours.

[Eluvatar]

I think the right way to do this would be to give the Delegate-elect executive powers but not give them Border controls, and prevent them from granting anyone (including themselves) Border controls for the appropriate amount of time. Once the time is up, they would be able to grant 1 nation Border controls, and from then on gain one more every 26 hours as currently.

[Zacherie]

I think the right way to do this would be to give the Delegate-elect executive powers but not give them Border controls, and prevent them from granting anyone (including themselves) Border controls for the appropriate amount of time. Once the time is up, they would be able to grant 1 nation Border controls, and from then on gain one more every 26 hours as currently.

Then if a raider delegate delegate-elects they can still tag the region and leave.

[Eluvatar]

The intention of this change is to:

...

• Not invalidate certain styles of raiding, such as tag-raiding.

Yes.

[NOrTh pAcIfiC spY]

I think the right way to do this would be to give the Delegate-elect executive powers but not give them Border controls, and prevent them from granting anyone (including themselves) Border controls for the appropriate amount of time. Once the time is up, they would be able to grant 1 nation Border controls, and from then on gain one more every 26 hours as currently.

I don't know if I agree with this bit. I think they should get the power to dismiss officers, and the WFE goes to a neutral state ('This region is currently experiencing political upheaval, and the WA has been unable to compile a current factbook for this region'). But there should be no powers at all granted by achieving Delegate Elect status, you aren't in power, but you have managed to kick the other faction out of power so have the name of your candidate in the WA delegate position. So while a region is in delegate elect, assuming the delegate dismisses the RO's immediately, no faction would have any power over the region, unless a Founder decided to step in. Tag raiding, I can't remember what the endorsement count differences were that triggered it, but if a region has 0 endorsement gap between the two factions, it should remain in Delegate Elect status until it is resolved, unlike the normal 12 hours a normal Delegate Elect lasts for (unless the other faction gains power, and triggers Delegate Elect status again). Of course if Annexation ever gets implemented, Governor should automatically win the 0 endorsement gap, and not trigger Delegate Elect.

[Canton Empire]

How will this work with annex?

[NOrTh pAcIfiC spY]

How will this work with annex?

I think all but Estimated Update Times are on hold atm. pending decision on a certain other topic that has been deliberately buried. If said topic that shall not be named happens, then this is likely all up in the air, rather than a long way down the massive to-do/look at list. All of annexation/R/D summit isn't concrete, and is more peoples ideas. Mine personally would be that it would work exactly the same in an annexed region, if it triggers, then WFE goes neutral, RO's are removed (or powers suspended and removed from the WFE). Either annexed regions wouldn't have delegate elect status possible in the region, or only if the other nation had more than the Governors endorsements and in the range that delegate elect would be triggered.

So if the Governor had 10 endorsements and the delegate elect triggers were set to 10%, then if the challenger had 8 or less endorsements delegate elect wouldn't trigger, both in a normal region and an annexed region. If the challenger had 9 or 10 endorsements, despite in a normal region this triggering delegate elect, it wouldn't in an annexed region. If the challenger had 11 endorsements, they would have more endorsements than the Governor, and be in delegate elect range so it would trigger. If they had 12 or more endorsements, delegate elect wouldn't trigger and the world would continue on. Vice versa, if the Governor had less endorsements than the Challenger (who now has delegacy) but enough to trigger delegate elect, then delegate elect status would happen. If the Governor had equal to or more endorsements than the challenger, the challenger would just lose delegate status like normal. If a region is in the process of being annexed and delegacy changes or delegate elect status happens, the process of annexing the region is reset, and if the region is in the process of gaining independence, the process would also be reset.

But this is all kind of hypothetical and my views atm. rather than anything concrete - of the seven, two have already been implemented (the easiest one, and the one that helps every region rather than just the R/D communities), one is in progress (the one that reduces the barriers of entry to R/D for everyone) - although not exactly at lightspeed despite assertions post-Predator, and the other four are in semi limbo, with one not officially cancelled, but pretty much in that space. I wouldn't expect to see any of these in the short term, and I don't expect multiple to come out at once, so we can figure out how exactly one would work with others once they actually happen.

[Canton Empire]

How will this work with annex?

I think all but Estimated Update Times are on hold atm. pending decision on a certain other topic that has been deliberately buried. If said topic that shall not be named happens, then this is likely all up in the air, rather than a long way down the massive to-do/look at list. All of annexation/R/D summit isn't concrete, and is more peoples ideas. Mine personally would be that it would work exactly the same in an annexed region, if it triggers, then WFE goes neutral, RO's are removed (or powers suspended and removed from the WFE). Either annexed regions wouldn't have delegate elect status possible in the region, or only if the other nation had more than the Governors endorsements and in the range that delegate elect would be triggered.

So if the Governor had 10 endorsements and the delegate elect triggers were set to 10%, then if the challenger had 8 or less endorsements delegate elect wouldn't trigger, both in a normal region and an annexed region. If the challenger had 9 or 10 endorsements, despite in a normal region this triggering delegate elect, it wouldn't in an annexed region. If the challenger had 11 endorsements, they would have more endorsements than the Governor, and be in delegate elect range so it would trigger. If they had 12 or more endorsements, delegate elect wouldn't trigger and the world would continue on. Vice versa, if the Governor had less endorsements than the Challenger (who now has delegacy) but enough to trigger delegate elect, then delegate elect status would happen. If the Governor had equal to or more endorsements than the challenger, the challenger would just lose delegate status like normal. If a region is in the process of being annexed and delegacy changes or delegate elect status happens, the process of annexing the region is reset, and if the region is in the process of gaining independence, the process would also be reset.

But this is all kind of hypothetical and my views atm. rather than anything concrete - of the seven, two have already been implemented (the easiest one, and the one that helps every region rather than just the R/D communities), one is in progress (the one that reduces the barriers of entry to R/D for everyone) - although not exactly at lightspeed despite assertions post-Predator, and the other four are in semi limbo, with one not officially cancelled, but pretty much in that space. I wouldn't expect to see any of these in the short term, and I don't expect multiple to come out at once, so we can figure out how exactly one would work with others once they actually happen.

Which one is in progress??