Recruitment TGs outside of Game-Created Regions

[Sichuan Pepper]

I am against recruitment becoming legal in user created regions while game created regions are spawning nations.

[Individuality-ness]

It doesn't say that there's a new News post yet, so it makes sense that she missed it.

It did for me.

Yeah, see the edit.

[Weed]

I am against recruitment becoming legal in user created regions while game created regions are spawning nations.

This is a valid point. This is the only advantage UCRs have over GCRs.

[Communist Eraser]

I think that is one valid concern. I wonder if recruitment TG's could be in a totally separate section of the inbox, and not consume regular TG allotments.

That was actually the way it worked in a first version of the new TG system, but after the category-based blocks were added, it seemed unnecessary.

One thing we could do is ease it in, so that at first nations who haven't selected a TG block default to blocking "Most", then after a while it shifts to "Some", then "None."

Ok, I see there's some leeway. Moving from "Most"/"Some"/"None" over time would at least give the recruiter region a chance to integrate them before being open to others.

I would prefer if it 'reset' with each region change though.

[[violet]]

I do not see why so many of you oppose competition.

Because it's wealth competition, not effort or quality competition. People with enough money are going to peel away people from regions no matter how much those regions have to offer, just because they have a great recruitment TG and the money to mass spam it.

I'm fine with competition but I want the competition to be about my region and what it has to offer, not about how much is in my bank account or how much the true believers in Right to Life are willing to spend to send their totally unrelated to the game message.

I completely agree with that philosophy, and I can promise you that if this turns out to be the case, we'll change it. The idea is absolutely not to make you need to pay for stuff to compete as a region.

Personally, I suspect that the portion of recruitment TGs that will come via the pay-for system (i.e. telegram stamps) will be smaller than the portion that come via other means (manual or scripts using the API). But we'll see.

[Cerian Quilor]

I am against recruitment becoming legal in user created regions while game created regions are spawning nations.

This is a valid point. This is the only advantage UCRs have over GCRs.

Not the only. UCRs, out of nessesesity, have 'evolved' to also be more opening and welcoming to new people, because they need to work harder to get yeild out of what they get by TG. That is a natural advantage that UCRs have developed out of nessesity.

I mean, half+ the prominent players I see in the feeders and Sinkers got their start elsewhere in NS before moving into the GCRs. There is a reason for this.

[Weed]

scripts using the API

Am I missing this becoming legal?

[Individuality-ness]

scripts using the API

Am I missing this becoming legal?

I think she meant manual scripts using the API.

[Weed]

This is a valid point. This is the only advantage UCRs have over GCRs.

Not the only. UCRs, out of nessesesity, have 'evolved' to also be more opening and welcoming to new people, because they need to work harder to get yeild out of what they get by TG. That is a natural advantage that UCRs have developed out of nessesity.

I mean, half+ the prominent players I see in the feeders and Sinkers got their start elsewhere in NS before moving into the GCRs. There is a reason for this.

That's not a technical advantage of UCRs. Nor is it the reason most people start in UCRs, but that's irrelevant.

[Weed]

Am I missing this becoming legal?

I think she meant manual scripts using the API.

I don't think I know what script means then, because I didn't know one could be manual.

[Individuality-ness]

I think she meant manual scripts using the API.

I don't think I know what script means then, because I didn't know one could be manual.

IIRC, manual scripts being a script that does most of the work for you but requires you to press a button to send the TG itself.

[Cerian Quilor]

Not the only. UCRs, out of nessesesity, have 'evolved' to also be more opening and welcoming to new people, because they need to work harder to get yeild out of what they get by TG. That is a natural advantage that UCRs have developed out of nessesity.

I mean, half+ the prominent players I see in the feeders and Sinkers got their start elsewhere in NS before moving into the GCRs. There is a reason for this.

That's not a technical advantage of UCRs. Nor is it the reason most people start in UCRs, but that's irrelevant.

Not a technical one, but a real one.

The reason most people start in UCRs is because GCRs don't usually take the time to welcome and integrate them. (Osiris and Madjack's script being a notable exception, and TSP is apparently trying to step the process up.)

[Feux]

One thing we could do is ease it in, so that at first nations who haven't selected a TG block default to blocking "Most", then after a while it shifts to "Some", then "None."

I approve of this.

[Unibot III]

Ultimately, something needs to be changed. Practically nothing beyond personal communication is legal to send in UCRs. Doesn't seem to be legal to pass on a survey or any sort of polling, newspapers, can't recruit for an organization, can't pass on a link to an IRC channel, can't pass on a link to a thread and if you can get caught at it.. you technically can't even invite a friend you've known for quite some time in NationStates (happens if the guy is a spy for an enemy organization). The current, strict rule-set enforces a certain order that favors super-regions greatly and actually reduces opportunities for the game. We've gotten so caught up in extending the definition of "Recruitment" to almost everything, that we've forgotten what the Block feature could be used for.

I agree, if this system is going to be used to eat away at Broker-UCRs, it needs to be moderated and changed. But a more open Telegram box is in the interests of the game overall.

[Cerian Quilor]

One thing we could do is ease it in, so that at first nations who haven't selected a TG block default to blocking "Most", then after a while it shifts to "Some", then "None."

I approve of this.

If you set it so that all new nations are auto-selected onto 'most', then the first org to send them a tg for the day (while they are still in gcr) is the ony one they hear from.

Now, if it was set to 'most' once they moved out of a GCR, that would make more sense.

Still, the whole thing is a terrible idea.

@Unibot: You recruit people via Private messages, IRC and other 3rd party sources. That's how I invited people I knew to Kantrias. Or just talk about your region and how cool it is and wait for them to come on their own.

[Feux]

Has it occurred to those of you in UCRs (or GCRs, for that matter) that your Delegate and Founder can now send out a FREE mass telegram instructing your regionmates on how to disable mass telegrams? If they're actually loyal and not just relying on inertia, that should prevent mass defections.

I'm confused now. Are we talking the set max of 8 at a time or can I telegram everyone in Lazarus for free?

[Communist Eraser]

One thing we could do is ease it in, so that at first nations who haven't selected a TG block default to blocking "Most", then after a while it shifts to "Some", then "None."

I approve of this.

Sometime else saw that. If we are willing to go with this system I propose:

Newly created nations (Feeders etc) start with 'None' and slowly go to "Most". Once a nation moves to a UCR it jumps to "Most" slowly going to "None". This resets to "Most"->"None" again if a nation jumps between different UCRs. The nation of course could override and manually set their own preference at any time.

We just need time and a chance to try and integrate the nation first, for a while, before opening it up again.

[Weed]

Has it occurred to those of you in UCRs (or GCRs, for that matter) that your Delegate and Founder can now send out a FREE mass telegram instructing your regionmates on how to disable mass telegrams? If they're actually loyal and not just relying on inertia, that should prevent mass defections.

I'm confused now. Are we talking the set max of 8 at a time or can I telegram everyone in Lazarus for free?

It says near the end you will be able to telegram everyone in Laz for free. File under tools for raiders, mind you.

[Unibot III]

@Unibot: You recruit people via Private messages, IRC and other 3rd party sources. That's how I invited people I knew to Kantrias. Or just talk about your region and how cool it is and wait for them to come on their own.

IRC is a limited crowd who I already do approach people from. Forums are demographically limited -- it usually means you can only approach gameplayers.

[Cerian Quilor]

I approve of this.

Sometime else saw that. If we are willing to go with this system I propose:

Newly created nations (Feeders etc) start with 'None' and slowly go to "Most". Once a nation moves to a UCR it jumps to "Most" slowly going to "None". This resets to "Most"->"None" again if a nation jumps between different UCRs. The nation of course could override and manually set their own preference at any time.

We just need want time and a chance to have try and integrate the nation first, for a while before opening it up again.

That works. Still should get rid of Stamps. Big time get rid of stamps.

[Sichuan Pepper]

Game created regions are the largest simply due to nations constantly spawning and no work needed to maintain that population....how will you offset the advantage these regions hold violet?

[Olthar]

And if I had never seen this thread, I likely wouldn't have learned of that bit of information.

You mean you didn't read the news post that was posted a few hours ago that tells you this?

*shrug*
It should still be opt-in, especially since I can see absolutely no reason why not. Really, the essential point of contention is an argument of convenience and nothing more. On the one side, we have people who participate in the game side of things with all that regional politics and stuff, and on the other side, we have people who more or less ignore the game and just come here for the forums. The first group willingly and happily puts in effort to play their game, while the second shrugs their shoulders at the whole thing. If we make recruitment TGs opt-out, the latter group would be forced to apply effort into something in which they possess no interest, causing quite an annoyance.. If they're opt-in, the former group need only put a bit more work into what they already enjoy doing, something they'd likely be just fine with.

Opt-out punishes the forum-goers (however slightly), while opt-in doesn't significantly hinder the game-players at all.

[Feux]

I'm confused now. Are we talking the set max of 8 at a time or can I telegram everyone in Lazarus for free?

It says near the end you will be able to telegram everyone in Laz for free. File under tools for raiders, mind you.

Oh hell, how did I miss that. Now I'm no longer on the tip of my chair.

[Gest]

Game created regions are the largest simply due to nations constantly spawning and no work needed to maintain that population....how will you offset the advantage these regions hold violet?

By doing nothing. After all when nations are inert in GCR it builds character. Now if they're inactive in UCR then it's a dangerous disease that must be cured with a shot of lucre.

[Unibot III]

I approve of this.

Sometime else saw that. If we are willing to go with this system I propose:

Newly created nations (Feeders etc) start with 'None' and slowly go to "Most". Once a nation moves to a UCR it jumps to "Most" slowly going to "None". This resets to "Most"->"None" again if a nation jumps between different UCRs. The nation of course could override and manually set their own preference at any time.

We just need want time and a chance to have try and integrate the nation first, for a while before opening it up again.

If "Most" removes 'recruitment' and only 'recruitment', then I think it should fall back to "Some", so we still have the Miscellaneous and Region filter available unless someone intentionally turns it off. But I'd like to see invites beyond regional recruitment to fit under Miscellaneous -- ultimately, in the past the Moderators have had a pretty wide definition for "Recruitment" though.