Recruitment TGs outside of Game-Created Regions

[Sichuan Pepper]

Still have not addressed the issue of changing the recruiting pool but not the spawn pool. User created regions have to work for population while GCR's do not. This needs to be fair to every region and that includes game created regions.
If we must provide a region players want to reside it and entice them to move here so should GCR's

[Cormac Stark]

I do not see why so many of you oppose competition.

Because it's wealth competition, not effort or quality competition. People with enough money are going to peel away people from regions no matter how much those regions have to offer, just because they have a great recruitment TG and the money to mass spam it.

I'm fine with competition but I want the competition to be about my region and what it has to offer, not about how much is in my bank account or how much the true believers in Right to Life are willing to spend to send their totally unrelated to the game message.

[Sovreignry]

Still have not addressed the issue of changing the recruiting pool but not the spawn pool. User created regions have to work for population while GCR's do not. This needs to be fair to every region and that includes game created regions.
If we must provide a region players want to reside it and entice them to move here so should GCR's

This sounds reasonable to me.

[Unibot III]

Well, let me turn that around and ask: Why should a nation be blocked from receiving recruitment TGs outside a GCR? As far as I can tell, there are two possible answers: because it's good for the region, or because it's good for the nation.

The latter is the reason we've had "No TG recruitment outside GCRs" rule until now. There was no way for nations to individually opt in or out of recruitment TGs, so we just had to make a broad strokes rule that anyone who shifted regions probably wanted to stay there. But obviously that's not always true. Some people in GCRs don't want any more recruitment TGs; some people outside GCRs do. So once people have the ability to set those blocks themselves, this reason goes away.

The former reason is that it's good for a region that manages to draw in a new member if they don't have to worry so much about them being tempted away again. But this is true only if the region is only keeping that nation through ignorance and apathy; i.e. the nation doesn't know that a different region, which suits them better, is out there.

I don't think regions should be rewarded for that. I think they should be rewarded for being good places for their residents. And if they are, I don't think they have anything to fear from recruitment TGs.

Basically, I'm in favor of this change because I think more communication is always better, and I think nations are smart enough to figure out on their own which regions they like.

I agree. I think recruitment in User-Created Regions stands to better the game because I think a lot of players get bored in the mega-regions that originally recruit them (because not all of them are doing a good job at getting them involved) -- and Niches have a particularly difficult time to recruit in NationStates. The players who run user-created regions may not like it, but if they're not maintaining players fun enough for them to considering leaving than it is in their interests, but not in the interests of the game overall to have these players' telegram box locked down once they travel out of a GCR. We used to have what the Mod's called "Consent Theory", but the joke of it was.. if you weren't in a GCR, there was no way for a player to consent to receiving recruitment. We have that now.

I would expect regions' like 10000 Islands and others to telegram their new members and advise them to turn up their filter.

[Afforess]

I do not see why so many of you oppose competition.

I'm fine with competition but I want the competition to be about my region and what it has to offer, not about how much is in my bank account or how much the true believers in Right to Life are willing to spend to send their totally unrelated to the game message.

So to be clear, if stamps & mass telegramming for recruitment was not allowed in User Created Regions, but autotelegrammers were, you would be okay? Because that removes the money element, and still allows recruitment.

[Weed]

For one, what actual reason is there to allow this? Not to just make the game interesting, but an actual reason that proves that this adds some sort of positive benefit to NS. I don't see this reason.

Well, let me turn that around and ask: Why should a nation be blocked from receiving recruitment TGs outside a GCR? As far as I can tell, there are two possible answers: because it's good for the region, or because it's good for the nation.

The latter is the reason we've had "No TG recruitment outside GCRs" rule until now. There was no way for nations to individually opt in or out of recruitment TGs, so we just had to make a broad strokes rule that anyone who shifted regions probably wanted to stay there. But obviously that's not always true. Some people in GCRs don't want any more recruitment TGs; some people outside GCRs do. So once people have the ability to set those blocks themselves, this reason goes away.

The former reason is that it's good for a region that manages to draw in a new member if they don't have to worry so much about them being tempted away again. But this is true only if the region is only keeping that nation through ignorance and apathy; i.e. the nation doesn't know that a different region, which suits them better, is out there.

I don't think regions should be rewarded for that. I think they should be rewarded for being good places for their residents. And if they are, I don't think they have anything to fear from recruitment TGs.

Basically, I'm in favor of this change because I think more communication is always better, and I think nations are smart enough to figure out on their own which regions they like.

They aren't though. I can tell you from experience, I have recruited hundreds of nations to join really shitty regions because my telegram was good. It is the quality of a telegram, not the quality of the region that matters.

You also aren't taking into account that the most effective and impressive regions are going to have the most enemies. Before CD and the CP guy opened their mouths here the two targets of this would definitely be TITO and Europeia, because they are the most impressive regions. This will serve to tear down good regions, not bring up anything.

[Frisbeeteria]

Has it occurred to those of you in UCRs (or GCRs, for that matter) that your Delegate and Founder can now send out a FREE mass telegram instructing your regionmates on how to disable mass telegrams? If they're actually loyal and not just relying on inertia, that should prevent mass defections.

[Cerian Quilor]

The thing is Violet, if people actively wanted to see more recruit TGs, they would do one of two things

1.) Move into a GCR and wait for the TGs to come to them
2.) Make a new puppet (or ressurect an old one) and wait for the TGs to come to them.

I know for a fact I have used 2 to great effect in some cases.

[Olthar]

Oh hell no! I don't want my TG box to suddenly fill up with recruitment ads! The only reason I even bothered to move into a user-created region was specifically to avoid them! I really could not care even one iota less about regional politics. I just don't want a bunch of damn ads clogging up my TG box.

[Sanctaria]

Oh hell no! I don't want my TG box to suddenly fill up with recruitment ads! The only reason I even bothered to move into a user-created region was specifically to avoid them! I really could not care even one iota less about regional politics. I just don't want a bunch of damn ads clogging up my TG box.

You can select not to receive any via the new TG system.

[Afforess]

Oh hell no! I don't want my TG box to suddenly fill up with recruitment ads! The only reason I even bothered to move into a user-created region was specifically to avoid them! I really could not care even one iota less about regional politics. I just don't want a bunch of damn ads clogging up my TG box.

I think that is one valid concern. I wonder if recruitment TG's could be in a totally separate section of the inbox, and not consume regular TG allotments.

[Tim-Opolis]

Has it occurred to those of you in UCRs (or GCRs, for that matter) that your Delegate and Founder can now send out a FREE mass telegram instructing your regionmates on how to disable mass telegrams? If they're actually loyal and not just relying on inertia, that should prevent mass defections.

And do you realize that a lot of us are more worried on how we're going to be retaining nations that we recruit *after* this system is implemented. Think about it. You a recruit a nation to your UCR. And an hour after it moves, like 40 other people have telegram bombed it with Recruitment Telegrams. Hell, you can't even get a Welcome Telegram in because it will be wiped off of the TG Screen with all of the shit from others. How are we supposed to retain new nations, when they're still getting constantly TGd even after they move to our regions?

[Cerian Quilor]

Has it occurred to those of you in UCRs (or GCRs, for that matter) that your Delegate and Founder can now send out a FREE mass telegram instructing your regionmates on how to disable mass telegrams? If they're actually loyal and not just relying on inertia, that should prevent mass defections.

The issue is Fris, that we're more concerned about the new people who arrive in a region, and the region itself has not had a chance to tell them to disable the recruit TG recieving, or had a chance to integrate into the region and become part of it (either on their own initiative or because of prompting, training and coaxing by the government of the region). Its that narrow window between arrival and integration that is key.

[Frisbeeteria]

How are we supposed to retain new nations, when they're still getting constantly TGd even after they move to our regions?

Make "don't forget to disable recruitment telegrams" part of your script?

[Tramiar]

How are we supposed to retain new nations, when they're still getting constantly TGd even after they move to our regions?

Make "don't forget to disable recruitment telegrams" part of your script?

Have you ever recruited before? New people are not the best at following directions. Sometimes they don't even know how to change regions yet, and we're supposed to give them a list of other things they need to do, as soon as they start?

[Olthar]

Oh hell no! I don't want my TG box to suddenly fill up with recruitment ads! The only reason I even bothered to move into a user-created region was specifically to avoid them! I really could not care even one iota less about regional politics. I just don't want a bunch of damn ads clogging up my TG box.

You can select not to receive any via the new TG system.

And if I had never seen this thread, I likely wouldn't have learned of that bit of information. I don't see how this is automatically no longer a problem. By the fact that this thread only has a few hundred views, I can confidently say that not everyone has seen it, and not everyone knows about this ability. Many of them also likely don't want to be bombarded by TGs and will be suddenly blindsided by them. Receiving recruitment TGs should be opt-in, not opt-out.

[Sichuan Pepper]

I believe thecurrent new system will be separating recruitment TG's from the inbox so it is not clogged. I could be wrong but that is the way I read it. Recruiting TG's will be tagged as such

[Unibot III]

[violet], what about having some of notification system that asks "Unibot III would like to approach you about a recruitment invitation, proceed?", but make it subtle (not a pop-up system). But also make it difficult for someone to do wide-spread UCR recruitment. So one cannot use the same PM system as usual telegrams to invite people in UCRs and you can't do mass targeting easily.

But as it stands now, something has to give. UCRs sit on large amounts of players. I once invited my friend in 10000 Islands to join my region, Dharma, a few years ago. We had known each other for two years. He joined Dharma and posted on the RMB, "thanks for the telegram". 10000 Islands saw that and reported me. We need some sort of system to open up UCRs more than the locked-down-tight method we have now, but I'm thinking this may be too open.

[Individuality-ness]

You can select not to receive any via the new TG system.

And if I had never seen this thread, I likely wouldn't have learned of that bit of information. I don't see how this is automatically no longer a problem. By the fact that this thread only has a few hundred views, I can confidently say that not everyone has seen it, and not everyone knows about this ability. Many of them also likely don't want to be bombarded by TGs and will be suddenly blindsided by them. Receiving recruitment TGs should be opt-in, not opt-out.

This, this, totally this. If we can't get the ban on UCRs reestablished, make it opt-in, not opt-out.

[The Republic of Lanos]

I believe thecurrent new system will be separating recruitment TG's from the inbox so it is not clogged. I could be wrong but that is the way I read it. Recruiting TG's will be tagged as such

That's what I used to see here though I don't know if this is what we're going to see with the new system in eventuality.

[Sanctaria]

You can select not to receive any via the new TG system.

And if I had never seen this thread, I likely wouldn't have learned of that bit of information.

You mean you didn't read the news post that was posted a few hours ago that tells you this?

[Durkadurkiranistan II]

Just to be clear, I do not oppose being able to recruit in UCRs. Rather, I oppose being able to pay to do it. Remove the P2P aspect and this repairs the conflict aspect of NS gameplay that has been sorely lacking in recent years. Just my two pennies.

[Individuality-ness]

And if I had never seen this thread, I likely wouldn't have learned of that bit of information.

You mean you didn't read the news post that was posted a few hours ago that tells you this?

It doesn't say that there's a new News post yet, so it makes sense that she missed it.

Edit: Okay, now it does. Just checked on a puppet.

[[violet]]

Oh hell no! I don't want my TG box to suddenly fill up with recruitment ads! The only reason I even bothered to move into a user-created region was specifically to avoid them! I really could not care even one iota less about regional politics. I just don't want a bunch of damn ads clogging up my TG box.

I think that is one valid concern. I wonder if recruitment TG's could be in a totally separate section of the inbox, and not consume regular TG allotments.

That was actually the way it worked in a first version of the new TG system, but after the category-based blocks were added, it seemed unnecessary.

One thing we could do is ease it in, so that at first nations who haven't selected a TG block default to blocking "Most", then after a while it shifts to "Some", then "None."

[Sanctaria]

You mean you didn't read the news post that was posted a few hours ago that tells you this?

It doesn't say that there's a new News post yet, so it makes sense that she missed it.

It did for me.