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Recruitment TGs outside of Game-Created Regions

Bug reports, general help, ideas for improvements, and questions about how things are meant to work.

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McMasterdonia
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Founded: Apr 19, 2012
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Postby McMasterdonia » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:20 am

This system basically seems to be punishing the recruiters that work really hard for their regions, and awarding the lazy by allowing them to simply pay for it themselves. That is the biggest issue for people, recruiters in 10ki, Europeia, Spiritus, the British Isles, and Mordor (of the largest UCR regions) work extremely hard to maintain their regional population through extensive recruitment. Notably, in the British Isles, this recruitment is done entirely by one person.

Instead, we are now allowing people to pay for this system and for all the work to be done for them. This will make it far harder for people who put a significant amount of effort into it.

My opposition is to that generally. Auto-recruitment should not be allowed, plain and simple. Not only is it terribly annoying for new nations, it also puts a large strain on GCR's trying to build up their own community, and now it seems will also be affecting User Created Regions. I'm really not seeing any benefit from changing to this payment auto recruitment method. Survival of the strongest has meant that the hardest working UCR regions survive. This is jeopardizing that.

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The Republic of Lanos
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Republic of Lanos » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:20 am

Tramiar wrote:
The Republic of Lanos wrote:I don't care if it becomes legal in this new TG system, if I get a recruitment TG in my region, I'm reporting it for illegal recruiting.

You can block them so you don't receive them at all.

I hope so.

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Christian Democrats
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Postby Christian Democrats » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:21 am

Tim-Opolis wrote:
Afforess wrote:If that's all it takes to wreck your region, then you clearly have a really pathetic regional community. You might want to consider fixing that instead of blaming it on the system.

Perhaps we should test this by sending a telegram to all the nations of Capitalist Paradise and seeing how many leave? You seem to be alright with calling other communities pathetic, so why not put yours to the test?

Allowing recruitment in all regions is capitalism. If you do not offer a high-quality product, people leave your region. This is no different than someone who frequents Wal-Mart receiving coupons to go to Target in the mail. I think a little competition will be good for everyone.
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Durkadurkiranistan II
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Ex-Nation

Postby Durkadurkiranistan II » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:21 am

Tim-Opolis wrote:
Afforess wrote:If that's all it takes to wreck your region, then you clearly have a really pathetic regional community. You might want to consider fixing that instead of blaming it on the system.

Perhaps we should test this by sending a telegram to all the nations of Capitalist Paradise and seeing how many leave? You seem to be alright with calling other communities pathetic, so why not put yours to the test?


We should band together and spam the hell out of Capitalist Paradise and Right to Life (or whatever CD's region is) until they burn to the ground. Defenders and raiders can finally unite over something.
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Afforess
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Founded: Jun 22, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Afforess » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:22 am

Cerian Quilor wrote:@CD & Aff: 1 in one hundred TGs sent get you a guy in your region. 1 in ten join your forums. 2 in five become active/ish on your forums. The rest of the people in the region are untapped potential you need to mine. Allowing people to pull them out before you've had the time to mine that potential (as this would allow) doesn't allow for you to show them how awesome your region is before they get bombared with new TGs soon after moving in.

The Capitalist Paradise already has a monthly newspaper, which is telegrammed to every nation in the region (excepting those who have opted-out), welcome messages that auto-telegram nations when they enter the region (different message for 1st visit, shorter message for returning visit), the RMB regularly features debates on popular political and social topics, and we have elections every 90 days. We do a really good job at making sure everyone is aware of what the region is doing, and keeping people active and participating. I doubt most other regions could claim the same.
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Tim-Opolis
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Postby Tim-Opolis » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:22 am

Afforess wrote:
Tim-Opolis wrote:Perhaps we should test this by sending a telegram to all the nations of Capitalist Paradise and seeing how many leave? You seem to be alright with calling other communities pathetic, so why not put yours to the test?

Go ahead. You won't have many leave, most of the Capitalist Paradise members are very old nations, > 1 year.

I might just have to take you up on that.

Either way, Capitalist Paradise doesn't actively recruit. They wouldn't be affected as much as say. Mordor. Or Spiritus. Or TNI. or Europeia. The regions that are actively growing and gaining 10-20 nations a day, at least. Those nations can't be absorbed into a community, in such a short time period. Allowing UCR recruitment will mean that you'll basically have regions trying to steal nations from other regions and so on and so forth. So, your profit of 20 or so? Easily stolen.
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Soviet Canuckistan
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Postby Soviet Canuckistan » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:22 am

Christian Democrats wrote:
Tim-Opolis wrote:Perhaps we should test this by sending a telegram to all the nations of Capitalist Paradise and seeing how many leave? You seem to be alright with calling other communities pathetic, so why not put yours to the test?

Allowing recruitment in all regions is capitalism. If you do not offer a high-quality product, people leave your region. This is no different than someone who frequents Wal-Mart receiving coupons to go to Target in the mail. I think a little competition will be good for everyone.

And like Walmart, it destroys communities.
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Cerian Quilor
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Postby Cerian Quilor » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:23 am

Durkadurkiranistan II wrote:
Tim-Opolis wrote:Perhaps we should test this by sending a telegram to all the nations of Capitalist Paradise and seeing how many leave? You seem to be alright with calling other communities pathetic, so why not put yours to the test?


We should band together and spam the hell out of Capitalist Paradise and Right to Life (or whatever CD's region is) until they burn to the ground. Defenders and raiders can finally unite over something.

This. So much.
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Cormac Stark
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Postby Cormac Stark » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:23 am

Bottom line: Implement this change and you'll have one of two scenarios...

1) Best Case Scenario: People who can't or won't pay to play get fed up with trying to build up UCRs and move to GCRs, which will significantly reduce the number of large, active UCRs while overcrowding the GCRs.

2) Worst Case Scenario: Those same people instead of finding a different way to play this game in GCRs resent that the privileged are being given probably the most significant gameplay advantage you could give them and quit the game entirely.

I'm betting on #2 because it's certainly what I'm leaning toward. If you were looking for a way to destroy the game you've really hit on a great one here.

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Afforess
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Postby Afforess » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:23 am

Durkadurkiranistan II wrote:
Tim-Opolis wrote:Perhaps we should test this by sending a telegram to all the nations of Capitalist Paradise and seeing how many leave? You seem to be alright with calling other communities pathetic, so why not put yours to the test?


We should band together and spam the hell out of Capitalist Paradise and Right to Life (or whatever CD's region is) until they burn to the ground. Defenders and raiders can finally unite over something.

I imagine your charm must win over lots of nations.
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Individuality-ness
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Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:24 am

Cerian Quilor wrote:
Durkadurkiranistan II wrote:We should band together and spam the hell out of Capitalist Paradise and Right to Life (or whatever CD's region is) until they burn to the ground. Defenders and raiders can finally unite over something.

This. So much.

If this becomes legal, I swear I will return to regional government JUST to do this.
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Christian Democrats
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Christian Democrats » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:24 am

Durkadurkiranistan II wrote:
Tim-Opolis wrote:Perhaps we should test this by sending a telegram to all the nations of Capitalist Paradise and seeing how many leave? You seem to be alright with calling other communities pathetic, so why not put yours to the test?


We should band together and spam the hell out of Capitalist Paradise and Right to Life (or whatever CD's region is) until they burn to the ground. Defenders and raiders can finally unite over something.

Few nations in Right to Life would leave. Why? Right to Life stands for something, unlike most regions. 8)
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GA#233: Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths (80%)*
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Afforess
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Postby Afforess » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:25 am

Individuality-ness wrote:
Cerian Quilor wrote:This. So much.

If this becomes legal, I swear I will return to regional government JUST to do this.

For having an opposing view point? Wow you guys are really tolerant. No wonder you're worried.
Last edited by Afforess on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Weed
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Capitalizt

Postby Weed » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:25 am

Cerian Quilor wrote:
Durkadurkiranistan II wrote:
We should band together and spam the hell out of Capitalist Paradise and Right to Life (or whatever CD's region is) until they burn to the ground. Defenders and raiders can finally unite over something.

This. So much.

*nods* I'm in. :)

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Durkadurkiranistan II
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Postby Durkadurkiranistan II » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:26 am

Afforess wrote:
Durkadurkiranistan II wrote:
We should band together and spam the hell out of Capitalist Paradise and Right to Life (or whatever CD's region is) until they burn to the ground. Defenders and raiders can finally unite over something.

I imagine your charm must win over lots of nations.


I used to run a region with over 700 nations, so yeah basically.
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Individuality-ness
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Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:27 am

Afforess wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:If this becomes legal, I swear I will return to regional government JUST to do this.

For having an opposing view point? Wow you guys are really tolerant. No wonder you're worried.

I don't think it's right. It's reasonable to expect moving from GCR > UCR means that you stop getting recruitment TGs. That's basically a nation not consenting to be spammed with recruitment TGs from one region or another.

But let's take this to the OTHER thread.
Last edited by Individuality-ness on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mewsland
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Ex-Nation

Postby Mewsland » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:27 am

Cerberion wrote:People who have put thousands of hours into their region should not suddenly be open to mass marketting attacks on their members because someone is willing to pay a few bucks to get ahead.


THIS. THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS.

I've put near two years into getting my regions just the way I want them. Recruitment's slow enough already (in three months, Karma has added 1 distinct new member), and I don't need to be fighting recruitment out.

I implore you - reconsider this rule change. Me and 10000+ other UCR founders/delegates are counting on the old ban on recruiting from UCRs to stay in the game.
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Tim-Opolis
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Postby Tim-Opolis » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:28 am

Cerian Quilor wrote:
Durkadurkiranistan II wrote:
We should band together and spam the hell out of Capitalist Paradise and Right to Life (or whatever CD's region is) until they burn to the ground. Defenders and raiders can finally unite over something.

This. So much.

You know things are bad when I'm starting to agree with JAL and Cerian on things.
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Cormac Stark
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Postby Cormac Stark » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:28 am

There you have it, admins. This isn't even implemented yet and you've got people planning to use pay-to-play as a form of warfare against Right to Life and Capitalist Paradise. Welcome to the new military gameplay; it doesn't involve any skill, just shelling out some cash and a decent recruitment TG.

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[violet]
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Postby [violet] » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:28 am

Tim-Opolis wrote:For one, what actual reason is there to allow this? Not to just make the game interesting, but an actual reason that proves that this adds some sort of positive benefit to NS. I don't see this reason.

Well, let me turn that around and ask: Why should a nation be blocked from receiving recruitment TGs outside a GCR? As far as I can tell, there are two possible answers: because it's good for the region, or because it's good for the nation.

The latter is the reason we've had "No TG recruitment outside GCRs" rule until now. There was no way for nations to individually opt in or out of recruitment TGs, so we just had to make a broad strokes rule that anyone who shifted regions probably wanted to stay there. But obviously that's not always true. Some people in GCRs don't want any more recruitment TGs; some people outside GCRs do. So once people have the ability to set those blocks themselves, this reason goes away.

The former reason is that it's good for a region that manages to draw in a new member if they don't have to worry so much about them being tempted away again. But this is true only if the region is only keeping that nation through ignorance and apathy; i.e. the nation doesn't know that a different region, which suits them better, is out there.

I don't think regions should be rewarded for that. I think they should be rewarded for being good places for their residents. And if they are, I don't think they have anything to fear from recruitment TGs.

Basically, I'm in favor of this change because I think more communication is always better, and I think nations are smart enough to figure out on their own which regions they like.

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Christian Democrats
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Postby Christian Democrats » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:29 am

I do not see why so many of you oppose competition.
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GA#200: Foreign Marriage Recognition (54%)
GA#213: Privacy Protection Act (70%)
GA#231: Marital Rape Justice Act (81%)^
GA#233: Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths (80%)*
GA#249: Stopping Suicide Seeds (70%)^
GA#253: Repeal "Freedom in Medical Research" (76%)
GA#285: Assisted Suicide Act (70%)^
GA#310: Disabled Voters Act (81%)
GA#373: Repeal "Convention on Execution" (54%)
GA#468: Prohibit Private Prisons (57%)^

* denotes coauthorship
^ repealed resolution
#360: Electile Dysfunction
#452: Foetal Furore
#560: Bicameral Backlash
#570: Clerical Errors

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Afforess
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Founded: Jun 22, 2009
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Postby Afforess » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:30 am

Christian Democrats wrote:I do not see why so many of you oppose competition.

Sssh, you'll get blacklisted next.
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The Republic of Lanos
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Republic of Lanos » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:31 am

Why don't we default this "Receive recruitment TGs in user-created regions" to off and/or leave it to regional administration to turn it on if they damn well please? I guarantee you there will be a lot of furious people TGing and posting about the sudden spamfest of recruiting TGs only to find out they could have turned off the spam themselves.

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Communist Eraser
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Ex-Nation

Postby Communist Eraser » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:31 am

Yes, we don't want to put in as much 'effort' as you. Yes we are relying on 'inertia'. Because this a online game that I am only willing to spend a certain amount of time on.

Just because I have a 'a pathetic regional community' doesn't mean you have a right to exploit that to ruin my region.

What's wrong with opt-in instead of opt-out? If they want to receive recruit TGs, they can decide for themselves. They'll be motivated enough to tick the button.

It's unsettling I found someone more scary than "Your region sucks if a raid destroys it" Cerian :P
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Durkadurkiranistan II
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Postby Durkadurkiranistan II » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:33 am

Afforess wrote:
Christian Democrats wrote:I do not see why so many of you oppose competition.

Sssh, you'll get blacklisted next.


He already is as far as I'm concerned.
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