Qumkent wrote:The question I'm surprised your not asking is "Does the current organisation of these Councils actually improve the game experience ?", the obvious answer is no.
Compared to what? Compared to when C&C legislation was mixed in with the rest, it sure is. Compared to the pre-C&Cs situation, you might think it's a step backward (particularly if you are hardcore GA), but the residents of Belgium probably don't think so. Compared to ideal, okay, but please recognize there are a thousand things that could be better in NS, and I don't have time to do all of them. I already have a lot of good stuff backed up because the WA took precedence.
If the current situation does not improve things then why insist that it continue ?
I don't need to insist that it continue. It continues all by itself. I know you only want things to be better, but when you equate something that requires me to do lots of work with something that requires no work, you're assuming my time has no value.
The Altani Federation wrote:Count me as another vote for some form of separation between the SC and the GA.
I am sympathetic to the workload this would create for the admins, but ultimately, this is workload created to fix a problem the majority of SC
and GA people dislike immensely, caused by game changes few people in either camp asked for in the first place. The only reason I can see for not fixing this boils down to "we don't want to fix it even though it's broken because it's work and we're being stubborn and we'd have to admit we made a mistake".
Separating the two groups would end the squabbling caused when you put two incompatible groups together and ask them to use the same limited resource. It would allow the SC and the GA to flourish doing what they prefer and like without having to be distracted by things that are utterly unrelated to their desired style of gameplay. That, by itself, would greatly improve the game experience for both sides, and do a lot to coincidentally fix the rancor that has erupted between the two sides since the forced merging of their worlds.
Separate the SC from the GA, both in voting and membership mechanisms, and let the SC players develop their own ruleset for the SC, in conjunction with the admins/mods, that is free from any connection to the GA. That would ultimately be the best solution.
I'm quoting this entire post because it's yet another one I read all the way through hunting in vain for specifics. It's a passionate argument in favor of I don't know what. "Separate the SC from the GA, both in voting and membership mechanisms": so, what, regions should have both a GA Delegate and an SC Delegates? The "Endorse" button becomes two: "Endorse for GA" and "Endorse for SC"? There are two sets of Regional Influence, one based on GA endorsements and one on SC endorsements? Are you in favor of separate sidebar links, don't care, opposed? A single WA page, or you think they must have separate pages?
If you're posting in this thread, please, step one, tell me exactly what you want to change. I'm not privy to the IRC discussions or background forum threads where you came to this opinion: I don't know what you're talking about.
Omigodtheykilledkenny wrote:[violet] wrote:I don't think everybody is asking for the same thing, though. There are plenty of people saying, "The GA and the SC should be split," but they refer to different parts. Currently, the GA and the SC are already separate in some areas (voting queues, forums, legislation books) and shared in others (membership mechanism, sidebar link, resolution voting floor).
They aren't separate queues; it's the same queue with a sort option.
Why do you think that? Is it because they
can be viewed as a merged queue? I.e. if I removed the "All Proposals" option and people could only view either GA or SC, is that what you want? I mean, it's just data. It can be represented any which way. I feel like you want me to walk you over to the server and point to one disk, "This is where we keep the GA proposals," and another disk, "This is for the SC proposals." What constitutes separation?
At this point, I don't believe anyone is advocating the total separation of the WA, or even separate membership; just separate quarters for the two branches. In fact, if we took a vote, I'm certain Unibot's solution of one main WA sidebar with two smaller sidebars underneath for the GA and the SC would be considered the fairest compromise for all concerned. This would also involve separate queues and voting floors. I don't know if this would create a coding nightmare for you guys, but for players in both branches, the current situation is frustratingly awkward and inefficient and has gone on long enough.
It would really help me if you would mock up a very specific proposal along these lines. Call it the Unibot Model and say exactly what it would entail (e.g. two more sidebar links, what would be on the main WA page, what would be on the SC and GA pages, and so on). Because right now I don't have confidence that people in this thread who sound like they're agreeing really are. (For example, the Altani Federation at least
is in favor of separate membership.)
Get some numbers behind a specific model and I'm a lot happier.