Liberate if not delegate?

[Boftie]

I was wondering if you can liberate a region that has no delegate. The founder put a password on it, it's actually just that the password should be removed. Is this possible? Or does there have to be a delegate in power.

[Feux]

If there is still a founder than you will have little case for your liberation. Normally, the liberation is intended to removed passwords for regions that have no founder and their native community is being threatened by an outside force or a rough Delegate. But to answer your question, no there does not have to be a Delegate in order for a liberation to be placed.

[Bears Armed]

A liberation can not remove a founder-placed password.

[Winter Vacationers]

So, if a Founder passwords a region and CTEs, they're SOL?

[Bears Armed]

So, if a Founder passwords a region and CTEs, they're SOL?

Yes. Their only option is to evacuate the region just before an update, so that it ceases to exist then (as empty regions do), and then found a new region with the same name.
Copying the old region's history and RMB pre-evacuation to post somewhere afterwards is something that they might want to consider if they try this approach.

[Sichuan Pepper]

I believe if the founder CTE a liberation proposal could in fact remove the password. Might need a mod opinion on this.

[Mahaj]

I believe if the founder CTE a liberation proposal could in fact remove the password. Might need a mod opinion on this.

No, it can only remove delegate imposed passwords.

[Jamie Anumia]

It's actually mentioned in the liberation proposal description:

A resolution to strike down Delegate-imposed barriers to free entry in a region.

So yeah, as said, if it's a password set by a founder, passing a liberation proposal does nothing, regardless if the founder is active or CTE'd.

[Communist Eraser]

So founders can torture their regions to a slow agonising death?

I'm assuming Delegates can remove a CTE founder's password.

[Jamie Anumia]

So founders can torture their regions to a slow agonising death?

I'm assuming Delegates can remove a CTE founder's password.

If the delegate had the influence, yes. Since they would then have full control.

[Frisbeeteria]

Might need a mod opinion on this.

You're going to need an admin opinion to look at the Liberate code. I'm not seeing any game-side distinction between a founder-imposed password and a delegate-imposed password. If [violet] was clever enough to draw a distinction, she or Ballo or Salusa would have to explain it.

[Ballotonia]

Might need a mod opinion on this.

You're going to need an admin opinion to look at the Liberate code. I'm not seeing any game-side distinction between a founder-imposed password and a delegate-imposed password. If [violet] was clever enough to draw a distinction, she or Ballo or Salusa would have to explain it.

The term 'Delegate-imposed' means it's not about who actually sets the password (the term 'Delegate-set' would've been used in that case) but under who's authority the password is imposed on those trying to enter the region. If the founder nation is alive (regardless which region it is in or whether the delegate has access to regional controls), any password present is deemed set with the (indirect) authority of the Founder nation and thus be Founder-imposed. Only if there is no living Founder will any password be deemed Delegate-imposed.

So, imagine Founder sets a password and then Ceases to Exist. There no longer being a Founder means any present Delegate automatically obtains access to regional controls, and from then onward the password is deemed to be Delegate-imposed.

Ballotonia

[Jamie Anumia]

You're going to need an admin opinion to look at the Liberate code. I'm not seeing any game-side distinction between a founder-imposed password and a delegate-imposed password. If [violet] was clever enough to draw a distinction, she or Ballo or Salusa would have to explain it.

The term 'Delegate-imposed' means it's not about who actually sets the password (the term 'Delegate-set' would've been used in that case) but under who's authority the password is imposed on those trying to enter the region. If the founder nation is alive (regardless which region it is in or whether the delegate has access to regional controls), any password present is deemed set with the (indirect) authority of the Founder nation and thus be Founder-imposed. Only if there is no living Founder will any password be deemed Delegate-imposed.

So, imagine Founder sets a password and then Ceases to Exist. There no longer being a Founder means any present Delegate automatically obtains access to regional controls, and from then onward the password is deemed to be Delegate-imposed.

Ballotonia

Is there a reason for that being the way it works? It just seems contradictory to the reasons behind a liberation proposal if the password is founder imposed.

[Ballotonia]

So founders can torture their regions to a slow agonising death?

I'm assuming Delegates can remove a CTE founder's password.

If the delegate had the influence, yes. Since they would then have full control.

Removing a password costs no influence.

Ballotonia

[Jamie Anumia]

If the delegate had the influence, yes. Since they would then have full control.

Removing a password costs no influence.

Ballotonia

Oh. Makes sense, I suppose. So changing/adding does but removing doesn't. Thanks for the clarification.

[Bears Armed]

You're going to need an admin opinion to look at the Liberate code. I'm not seeing any game-side distinction between a founder-imposed password and a delegate-imposed password. If [violet] was clever enough to draw a distinction, she or Ballo or Salusa would have to explain it.

The term 'Delegate-imposed' means it's not about who actually sets the password (the term 'Delegate-set' would've been used in that case) but under who's authority the password is imposed on those trying to enter the region. If the founder nation is alive (regardless which region it is in or whether the delegate has access to regional controls), any password present is deemed set with the (indirect) authority of the Founder nation and thus be Founder-imposed. Only if there is no living Founder will any password be deemed Delegate-imposed.

So, imagine Founder sets a password and then Ceases to Exist. There no longer being a Founder means any present Delegate automatically obtains access to regional controls, and from then onward the password is deemed to be Delegate-imposed.

Ballotonia

Ah. Correction noted. Think that I've never seen this aspect of the situation officially explained before....

[Ballotonia]

Is there a reason for that being the way it works? It just seems contradictory to the reasons behind a liberation proposal if the password is founder imposed.

Founders do not get to rule the region they started from beyond the grave. Without a Founder, a region is ruled by the Delegate. Note again the difference between "Delegate-imposed" and "Delegate-set".

Ballotonia

[Jamie Anumia]

Is there a reason for that being the way it works? It just seems contradictory to the reasons behind a liberation proposal if the password is founder imposed.

Founders do not get to rule the region they started from beyond the grave. Without a Founder, a region is ruled by the Delegate. Note again the difference between "Delegate-imposed" and "Delegate-set".

Ballotonia

Makes sense. If the founder cte's under game mechanics the delegate is considered to be in full control after all. Thanks again for the clarification.

[Araraukar]

Asking an additional question - what happens if the CTE'd founder resurrects their nation? Will they have full control of the region again, or is their nation treated as any other by the game?

[Bears Armed]

Asking an additional question - what happens if the CTE'd founder resurrects their nation? Will they have full control of the region again, or is their nation treated as any other by the game?

They regain full control.

[Crushing Our Enemies]

So if a region with a CTE'd founder is liberated, and the founder is then resurrected, would he have the ability to set a password? If yes, if he CTE'd again, would his password disappear?

[Jamie Anumia]

So if a region with a CTE'd founder is liberated, and the founder is then resurrected, would he have the ability to set a password? If yes, if he CTE'd again, would his password disappear?

To your first point - yes. Since liberations do not limit the powers of the founder* to do what they wish with the region.
I'll let someone else respond to your second point, since I personally do not know, though Ballotonia's point would suggest that is the case.
*If the nation is alive, that is.

[Ballotonia]

So if a region with a CTE'd founder is liberated, and the founder is then resurrected, would he have the ability to set a password? If yes, if he CTE'd again, would his password disappear?

1. Yes.
2. No.

Ballotonia

[Crushing Our Enemies]

Ooh, I suppose that makes it possible for a region to be liberated more than once!

EDIT: Of course, by this I mean having two liberation badges, as opposed to a liberation being repealed, and then another liberation proposal replacing it later.

[Ballotonia]

Ooh, I suppose that makes it possible for a region to be liberated more than once!

EDIT: Of course, by this I mean having two liberation badges, as opposed to a liberation being repealed, and then another liberation proposal replacing it later.

It would not be useful to pass a liberate proposal twice. After a Founder CTE's the password remains, but won't be imposed on new nations entering the region (since it's delegate-imposed from that point onwards).

Ballotonia