Old Nation Names

by **Protopian** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:17 pm

Right now, old nation names can be resurrected if you go and type in the password. I don't see anything wrong with that.

But

If a new member wants to come around and make a nation of that name, they should be allowed to override the old one and make a nation with that name. I feel like that's unfair to people who want to play the game that they don't get a shot at a nation that somebody probably doesn't play with anymore anyways.

For example, I wanted to make my nation Protopia. But it was taken. Later, I wanted to see what Protopia was like so I typed it in, but there is no active nation with that name right now. I feel like that's unfair to me, this guy probably doesn't use his nation anymore, and I wanted the name, so I should be able to get it. But it's not just about me, just in general.

I am not certain how it would work with dossiers and region posts and stuff, but that's the general idea.

by **Flibbleites** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:21 pm

This idea has been floating around for quite some time, but has yet to be implemented due to technical limitations.

by **Evil Wolf** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:56 pm

Heh, I can see how that would be a problem. People would just run around "recreating" nations of founders that had CTEd, thus making them instant founders of established regions. Also killing the Crasher sub-game, might I add.

Plus there are a large number of people who decide to leave then game and then return later who want to use their old nation. I for one would be fairly annoyed if I had to start over again because someone else took my favorite nation's name because I didn't log into it for a while.

by **Flibbleites** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:09 pm

Evil Wolf wrote:Heh, I can see how that would be a problem. People would just run around "recreating" nations of founders that had CTEd, thus making them instant founders of established regions. Also killing the Crasher sub-game, might I add.

Actually the technical issues were on the forum side.

by **Romanar** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:12 pm

I like the idea of reclaiming unused nation names, especially the ones that never had an impact in NS. But there should be a reasonable time (maybe after 2 years of inactivity), important and well-known names shouldn't be reused (Franco Spain is the most obvious example), and it shouldn't be possible for a recycled name to become the Founder of the original nations regions.

by **Enn** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:26 pm

Um. I was absent for the best part of two years, as far as this nation name is concerned. And I'm not sure whether writing a (now defunct) UN resolution would count as 'important and well-known'. Just because people are gone, doesn't mean they can't come back.

by **Unibot** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:25 pm

Romanar wrote: it shouldn't be possible for a recycled name to become the Founder of the original nations regions.

Ah, but thats what we call hitting the jackpot.

by **Sarzonia** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:29 pm

I don't think nation names that have been "retired' by a player leaving the game should be renewed by a different player, regardless of how well known the player with the defunct nation is.

Some sodding pre-teen shouldn't be able to type the name Maxtopia and POOF! he all of a sudden is now Maxtopia. Yes, that is one of the more famous nations and players, but it shouldn't matter how famous a nation is.

by **Allemande** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:34 pm

I understand your feelings - I truly do. I've wanted a puppet state named Kakania for a long time, but it's taken. That said, I don't think there should be a time limit on a players' ability to return to the game, so I'm grudgingly willing to have things stay as they are.

by **New South Hell** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:38 am

I like someone else's idea on some other thread on this topic that for a nation to be protected from re-creation by someone else, it has to have been active as a nation for a set period of time. Nations that hung around long enough to get a reputation couldn't be made again - raider puppets that lasted for a quick campaign could be used again.

I dunno what to say about the Forum issues, but perhaps a record could be kept for nations whether they have ever posted to the Forums, and re-creation be allowed if they haven't. (Nations that died before the new forums were created without an E-mail address would seem to comply with this.) I wouldn't think there would be Forum issues with nations that never posted. And I imagine most raider puppets never post.

by **Fit battion** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:10 am

I totally support this idea, I think that maybe there should be an obvious sign on that persons profile though to show people it isn't the original as well as the population going back to the beginning of course. Maybe it could have a badge saying:

Unrelated Recreation

Or something similar.

by **Bears Armed** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:20 am

Enn wrote:Um. I was absent for the best part of two years, as far as this nation name is concerned. And I'm not sure whether writing a (now defunct) UN resolution would count as 'important and well-known'. Just because people are gone, doesn't mean they can't come back.

When this point was being discussed before, on the Jolt forum, we were told (officially) that if & when re-using any names is ever made possible the names of nations that had been resolution authors or issue authors -- along with 'Maxtopia', nations under whose names admins and mods had operated, and Mod-deleted nations -- would still be kept out of the pool.

by **Charlotte Ryberg** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:27 am

Bears Armed wrote:
Enn wrote:Um. I was absent for the best part of two years, as far as this nation name is concerned. And I'm not sure whether writing a (now defunct) UN resolution would count as 'important and well-known'. Just because people are gone, doesn't mean they can't come back.

When this point was being discussed before, on the Jolt forum, we were told (officially) that if & when re-using any names is ever made possible the names of nations that had been resolution authors or issue authors -- along with 'Maxtopia', nations under whose names admins and mods had operated, and Mod-deleted nations -- would still be kept out of the pool.

It may be likely that names like "Example" may also be kept for testing purposes (like "example.com", which are domain names reserved for use in documentation and are not available for registration.)

However, the issue of name-squatting is quite complex and should be addressed. But name releases have been done before.

by **Frisbeeteria** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:53 am

Bears Armed wrote:
Enn wrote:When this point was being discussed before, on the Jolt forum, we were told (officially) that if & when re-using any names is ever made possible the names of nations that had been resolution authors or issue authors -- along with 'Maxtopia', nations under whose names admins and mods had operated, and Mod-deleted nations -- would still be kept out of the pool.

Excluding mod-deleted names is pretty much a given, as are past and present admins and mods.

There's no automated method for doing issue and resolution authors, nor is there any obvious or easy way to identify region founders who have died. My thought on those (and I'd have to get admin input first) would be to break the link between nation name and revived nation, using a hidden index field that already exists in the nation instead. There are in fact hidden fields in the nations, but I don't know if they're unique or traceable. (in a database, this would be a no-brainer. Here, not so much.)

I don't think we'd really looked closely at dead founders before. Leaving them 'stealable' might make for an interesting twist on the invasion game, especially since anyone (native, invader, defender, complete stranger) would potentially have an equal shot at grabbing the name. I'd be curious what sorts of thoughts that provokes amongst the Gameplay crowd ...

by **Omigodtheykilledkenny** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:19 pm

Frisbeeteria wrote:I don't think we'd really looked closely at dead founders before. Leaving them 'stealable' might make for an interesting twist on the invasion game, especially since anyone (native, invader, defender, complete stranger) would potentially have an equal shot at grabbing the name. I'd be curious what sorts of thoughts that provokes amongst the Gameplay crowd ...

Let's make it a Security Council category!

by **[violet]** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:04 pm

This has been discussed more thoroughly in another thread, but the only real problem right now is the Founder issue (and similar: e.g. dead authors of WA resolutions). It's not a show-stopper, I just haven't thought of an efficient way of checking whether an ex-nation is a Founder/resolution author/etc.

by **Unibot** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:27 pm

This has been discussed more thoroughly in another thread, but the only real problem right now is the Founder issue (and similar: e.g. dead authors of WA resolutions). It's not a show-stopper, I just haven't thought of an efficient way of checking whether an ex-nation is a Founder/resolution author/etc.

Well, if there was a list of resolution authors -- wouldn't it be a simple name check ?

This should be every author that has reached quorum with a proposal in UN and WA history, all 245 of them.
Without repeats (I think -- but one might have slipped by!)

I've indexed it for my own purposes previously, though when I was researching the UN Timeline I came across an author apparently called "Unknown" -- so I was left wondering if that meant the author's name hasn't been recovered or that was actually his name. So I've left 'unknown' off the list for the time being.

Anyway, I thought that might help you on your crusade.

by **Omigodtheykilledkenny** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:34 pm

What did the other thread say about nations who come back after a term of a year or longer? Tough luck, you can't have your nation back?

by **[violet]** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:10 pm

Correct, but we're talking about setting the bar fairly low to have your nation name permanently reserved. I suspect there is a very large number of nation names that were only ever used briefly and long ago.

by **Evil Wolf** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:47 pm

New South Hell wrote:Nations that hung around long enough to get a reputation couldn't be made again - raider puppets that lasted for a quick campaign could be used again.

That's not true. I've reused quite a few old puppets I used on raids in the past. Of course I typically wait months, in some cases years, before reusing them, but they do get used.

Frisbeeteria wrote:I don't think we'd really looked closely at dead founders before. Leaving them 'stealable' might make for an interesting twist on the invasion game, especially since anyone (native, invader, defender, complete stranger) would potentially have an equal shot at grabbing the name. I'd be curious what sorts of thoughts that provokes amongst the Gameplay crowd .

Yeah, that would really add to the Crasher game...for about 5 minutes. After that all the founderless regions get their founders grabbed by defenders who "just want to protect the region", thus leaving only a token handful of founderless regions left who survived from a time in NS where there were no founders.

After that, the Crasher/Defender game will functionally cease to exist since the founder option is the equivalent of Godmoding in the Crasher/Defender game.

by **Ballotonia** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:05 am

[violet] wrote:This has been discussed more thoroughly in another thread, but the only real problem right now is the Founder issue (and similar: e.g. dead authors of WA resolutions). It's not a show-stopper, I just haven't thought of an efficient way of checking whether an ex-nation is a Founder/resolution author/etc.

How about each update a 'blacklist' is created of all founders (dead and alive) ? Same for a list of all resolution-in-force authors. When someone wants to recreate a long-dead nation, check the blacklists. I'd imagine there'd be blacklists for (former) modnames, famous nations (edited by admin/mods), active resolution authors, issue authors/editors, founders, ... anything else? When the deceased nation meets the dead-for-a-long-time requirement and isn't in any of the blacklists it can be recreated.

Ballotonia

by **Omigodtheykilledkenny** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:47 am

[violet] wrote:Correct, but we're talking about setting the bar fairly low to have your nation name permanently reserved. I suspect there is a very large number of nation names that were only ever used briefly and long ago.

In that case, is it possible to track the nations that were only in existence for a short time before expiring? If we're going to open the names of all nations before an arbitrary date, say 2007, couldn't we limit it to just those nations that existed for 60 days or shorter, then died? If a player who had stayed on NS for two or three years before '07 suddenly decided to return (as has happened numerous times before - the most recent being Enn), it wouldn't really be fair to him or her were s/he to discover that the name had been unceremoniously given away to someone else, would it?

Also, I'm assuming that nations mod-deleted for having offensive names will also be off the table; is that right?

by **Flibbleites** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:53 am

Omigodtheykilledkenny wrote:Also, I'm assuming that nations mod-deleted for having offensive names will also be off the table; is that right?

Already been answered.

Frisbeeteria wrote:Excluding mod-deleted names is pretty much a given, as are past and present admins and mods.

by **Rasoana** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:56 am

What about if all nations also had an I.D. number everyone could see. So, if say, I wanted a nation that is "dead & gone" I could get it, yet still not taking the nation's region control, posts, etc. And the I.D. number could be visible on the nation's page so no one got anyone else confused.

I don't know if someone else had already said that, but here it is.

by **Oh my Days** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:02 am

Maybe there could be an opt-in (or opt-out) system of having your name reused by another player if you stop playing for a certain amount of time.

Blacklisting mods, WA/UN writers, mod-deleted nations, founders and a few others (like Francos Spain and Maxtopia, as said before) seems like a good idea, it might eventually result in not many names being left though.

Can someone link me the other thread on this discussion please?

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