Banlist missing from Regional Controls page

[Ananke]

It used to be that when going to the Regional Control page of a region as a non-founder/delegate you could see which nations were on the banlist (on the bottom on the page). This seem to have disappeared recently. Now only founders/delegates can see who's on the banlist of their respective regions.

Being able to see which nations are banned from various regions is really useful, so could you please bring the public banlist back?

[Neasmyrna]

Yes, I noticed this and was going to mention it myself...

This is a very handy feature and I hope it's brought back too.

[Pythagosaurus]

Yeah, [violet] did this a couple weeks ago. The commit message just said you weren't supposed to see it. I don't know why. There wasn't a thread about it here (at least not recently), so she must have seen some problem with it. Honestly, I was surprised you could see the region control page at all when I found out a few years ago, so I'm certainly not going to overturn this.

[Neasmyrna]

Ok... is there any way we could somehow... umm... appeal it with [violet]? (or see if there was a specific new reason)

or should we just forget about it...

You can still see the entire regional control except the ban list... which is kinda weird...

[Goobergunchia]

It seems odd to me that the banlist would disappear now of all times -- bans have caused much greater controversy in the distant past, before the Jolt feature freeze (the Francos Spain era) and there wasn't any intervention then to remove it.

I'll note that I don't think anybody would particularly mind if the banlist appeared somewhere outside of the Regional Control page, if there's some security hole that its appearance there causes. (Although I'd again be surprised if there was such a security hole that nobody's found after nearly seven years.)

[Pythagosaurus]

I wouldn't. I've patched a dozen security holes in the past month, and I only found out about one of them from somebody else (and that was Sirocco). Somebody needs to teach Max about XSS. But I don't think that's what this was. It was probably a gameplay reason.

[[violet]]

I hid the banlist because it was being shown unintentionally. The only way to view it was to manually enter a modified URL (to view the Region Control page); there was no link to click or anything for players who didn't know about it.

I don't have a strong position on whether banlists should be viewable or not (feel free to make some arguments), but if they are, they should be accessible to everyone, not just people who heard the whisper about how to craft the URL.

[Pythagosaurus]

In that case, maybe we can always show the link (though perhaps it could say "View Region Settings" for non-controllers). But then we should also hide all the buttons, the textarea, and the influence estimators, disable the checkboxes, and change the text at the top. Actually, we should do these things anyway.

[Former English Colony]

Viewing the banlist has always been a tool and something viewed as a matter of public record that can be used for informational purposes. In the feeders, it's extremely hard to keep track through the regional happenings of who has been banned, especially if the delegate bans a large number of people.

[Unibot]

In that case, maybe we can always show the link (though perhaps it could say "View Region Settings" for non-controllers). But then we should also hide all the buttons, the textarea, and the influence estimators, disable the checkboxes, and change the text at the top. Actually, we should do these things anyway.

I realize it shows up on the national happening's for a little while -- but what about having the regions a nation is banned from in a list that is displayed on the nation's spotlight ?

[Pythagosaurus]

That would be a bit difficult at the moment.

[Unibot]

That would be a bit difficult at the moment.

Oh, alright.

[Topid]

I'm a bit confused as to how we could have to much information.

I liked being able to see them.

[Neasmyrna]

In that case, maybe we can always show the link (though perhaps it could say "View Region Settings" for non-controllers). But then we should also hide all the buttons, the textarea, and the influence estimators, disable the checkboxes, and change the text at the top. Actually, we should do these things anyway.

What else would be left aside from the banned list?

But yeah... that sounds like a good idea. I think people should be able to see who is banned from a region.

[Evil Wolf]

In that case, maybe we can always show the link (though perhaps it could say "View Region Settings" for non-controllers). But then we should also hide all the buttons, the textarea, and the influence estimators, disable the checkboxes, and change the text at the top. Actually, we should do these things anyway.

Woah, woah, woah, hold on here, lets not go off hiding things that NS players have had general access to since almost the very start of the game.

First off, might I point out, the influence estimator is horrible. I could start a whole other thread about how poorly that thing functions and probably should someday.

Second, since I've been playing the game (2005) we've had open access to the Regional Control page and thus the banlist. We've also had access to the XML feeds, another thing you need to manually input to view, and I don't see anyone running off to kill access to that.

I've used the access to the banlist both as a general player and a raider. Its always interesting to see whose been banned from what region and, indeed, many chapters of NS regional history, especially in the Pacific Feeders, have been shaped by who is on that list. I'm sure I don't have to provide you with examples (The Pacific's Francos Spain) of times where access to the banlist for the common player was not only a useful feature but a game driving one as well.

This is a tool, mind you maybe not one that every player is aware of or ever player uses, but certainly everyone had the availability to view the list if they so choose.

Taking away the privilege to view it makes as mush sense as hiding the regional Influence level of a given nation from everyone but the delegate and the founder. Does anyone who isn't the delegate/founder really need to see their regional influence level, of course not! Does it make it impossibly annoying if they can't, you bet your ass it does.

[Pythagosaurus]

I didn't suggest hiding any information. I suggested hiding/disabling the controls that people can't use anyway. If you're not a delegate or founder, you don't need to see the eject button, nor do you need to be able to toggle checkboxes or estimate influence. The purpose of the influence estimator was to give a relative idea without telling people the actual numbers. Of course, now that somebody put the actual numbers in the xml feed, that might be up for a change as well.

[James Bluntus]

In that case, maybe we can always show the link (though perhaps it could say "View Region Settings" for non-controllers). But then we should also hide all the buttons, the textarea, and the influence estimators, disable the checkboxes, and change the text at the top. Actually, we should do these things anyway.

Now as a former defender and undercover agent. I have to disagree with this viewpoint. Founders can disable regional control to delegates. This could show raiders what regions are worth raiding and what is not. That is the only thing I disagree with.

[Ballotonia]

Agreed, both the banlist and the 'delegate has access to regional control' setting should be public information, just like it has always been.

Natives have IMHO the right to see what their founder/delegate is doing, so they can place their endorsements accordingly (or leave, in case of a Founder misbehaving). Hiding information from them is bad and frustrates normal politicking in a region.

Also, this information has always been used in Gameplay.

Ballotonia

[Pythagosaurus]

Is there some sort of reading uncomprehension epidemic going around? Or am I the only one noticing lots of people disagreeing with what I didn't say?

[Ballotonia]

Is there some sort of reading uncomprehension epidemic going around? Or am I the only one noticing lots of people disagreeing with what I didn't say?

I see one person disagreeing with your last post. I was agreeing with the OP, which defines the topic of this thread.

Ballotonia

[Evil Wolf]

A lot of my last post was directed towards the comment [violet] made about having to manually input the delegate controls and that's why she disabled the banlist viewing, blah, blah, blah. I just quoted you, Pyth, because it was convenient and I'm too lazy to quote more than one person in a single post.

Still think this is a bad idea, since universal viewing access to the delegate controls/banlist has almost become a game feature, that's how long its been around. I feel like the players were robbed of a long held game tool, to some extent.

[The Blaatschapen]

How about... Making it optional for the founder/delegate to let others see the banlist? It could work out like this:

A) delegate/founder can see banlist
B) Option A + nations inside the region can see banlist (perhaps with a certain influence check)
C) Everyone everywhere can see banlist.

This would give those of us who want a transparent region to have it, and those who want to rule with secrecy to do that as well

[Mikertaz Kein]

^^this. I agree. This make it possible for everyone to play a bit differently.

[Sedgistan]

Thats actually pretty useless for defender/raiders, as any delegate who thinks there's a chance their region will be liberated or invaded will simply hide the banlist in order to hinder those who are liberating/invading. As mentioned above by several invaders and defenders, its extremely important for us to be able to see the banlist, and it should therefore be something visible to everyone.

[Neasmyrna]

Thats actually pretty useless for defender/raiders, as any delegate who thinks there's a chance their region will be liberated or invaded will simply hide the banlist in order to hinder those who are liberating/invading. As mentioned above by several invaders and defenders, its extremely important for us to be able to see the banlist, and it should therefore be something visible to everyone.

Seconded.