Jong-Il is not a family name.

[GreatKorea]

"Jong-Il" is one of random family names now in NationStates. It's wrong.

In Northeast Asia, family name + given name. Kim Jong-Il's family name is Kim not Jong-Il. Jong-Il is the given name.

Please remove Jong-Il in the list of family names (last names in Western countries). (Actually, as a user from South Korea, I'm uncomfortable because there are South Korean people's name and there is only Kim Jong-Il, the dead tyrant of North Korea. However, I don't demand to remove Kim Jong-Il's name because the users are from various countries. I just request to change Jong-Il as a given name or replace it with Kim.)

PS: The formation of northeast Asian (Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc.) names is "family name" + "given name" (there's no middle name). However, some of them are written in the western order in English. For example, Choo Shin-soo, an MLB pitcher from South Korea, is usually written as "Shin Soo Choo" in the United States. His real full name is Choo Shin-soo (Choo is his family name. Shin-soo is his given name, not his middle + given names.)

[Astrolinium]

"Jong-Il" is one of random family names now in NationStates. It's wrong.

In Northeast Asia, family name + given name. Kim Jong-Il's family name is Kim not Jong-Il. Jong-Il is the given name.

Please remove Jong-Il in the list of family names (last names in Western countries). (Actually, as a user from South Korea, I'm uncomfortable because there are South Korean people's name and there is only Kim Jong-Il, the dead tyrant of North Korea. However, I don't demand to remove Kim Jong-Il's name because the users are from various countries. I just request to change Jong-Il as a given name or replace it with Kim.)

PS: The formation of northeast Asian (Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc.) names is "family name" + "given name" (there's no middle name). However, some of them are written in the western order in English. For example, Choo Shin-soo, an MLB pitcher from South Korea, is usually written as "Shin Soo Choo" in the United States. His real full name is Choo Shin-soo (Choo is his family name. Shin-soo is his given name, not his middle + given names.)

Hi.
This is a game.
Try not to take yourself too seriously.

[Eist]

Hi.
This is a game.
Try not to take yourself too seriously.

It seems that it would be something that is easily fixed, and it is an error, so why not? I can see why someone would find it offensive that there seems to be ignorance of other cultures implemented into this game. You don't have to be so dismissive.

[Astrolinium]

Hi.
This is a game.
Try not to take yourself too seriously.

It seems that it would be something that is easily fixed, and it is an error, so why not? I can see why someone would find it offensive that there seems to be ignorance of other cultures implemented into this game. You don't have to be so dismissive.

The point is, this game is supposed to be off-the-walls bizarre.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

Hi.
This is a game.
Try not to take yourself too seriously.

It seems that it would be something that is easily fixed, and it is an error, so why not? I can see why someone would find it offensive that there seems to be ignorance of other cultures implemented into this game. You don't have to be so dismissive.

To be technical, it never states in any issue that the second name IS the family name. So, if it makes you feel better, pretend it's the other way around. Besides, nobody but the few asian players are going to understand why their foreign minister's first name is Jong-Il.

[The Fanboyists]

It seems that it would be something that is easily fixed, and it is an error, so why not? I can see why someone would find it offensive that there seems to be ignorance of other cultures implemented into this game. You don't have to be so dismissive.

The point is, this game is supposed to be off-the-walls bizarre.

Which is already achieved by the random name generator.

[Kandorith]

It seems that it would be something that is easily fixed, and it is an error, so why not? I can see why someone would find it offensive that there seems to be ignorance of other cultures implemented into this game. You don't have to be so dismissive.

The point is, this game is supposed to be off-the-walls bizarre.

This....

But somehow I think he'd also be angry over the game Homefront... even though it's just a game...

It's for amusement, don't take it seriously; if you take NS seriously well.... abandon all hope.

And it has been a name in NS for a looooooong time as far as I can remember.

[Arumdaum]

"Jong-Il" is one of random family names now in NationStates. It's wrong.

In Northeast Asia, family name + given name. Kim Jong-Il's family name is Kim not Jong-Il. Jong-Il is the given name.

Please remove Jong-Il in the list of family names (last names in Western countries). (Actually, as a user from South Korea, I'm uncomfortable because there are South Korean people's name and there is only Kim Jong-Il, the dead tyrant of North Korea. However, I don't demand to remove Kim Jong-Il's name because the users are from various countries. I just request to change Jong-Il as a given name or replace it with Kim.)

PS: The formation of northeast Asian (Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc.) names is "family name" + "given name" (there's no middle name). However, some of them are written in the western order in English. For example, Choo Shin-soo, an MLB pitcher from South Korea, is usually written as "Shin Soo Choo" in the United States. His real full name is Choo Shin-soo (Choo is his family name. Shin-soo is his given name, not his middle + given names.)

Don't try to take it too seriously. As a guy that shares Kim Jong-il's last name, I don't really care.

I think it's because no one's going to call him, "Jong-il Kim" in the West. If Jong-il came in front, it'd just be plain awkward.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Even though you are absolutely correct, most Westerners probably recognize Jong-Il as being the surname of Kim Jong-Il. The purpose of the random name generation is to provide comedic effect by using well-known names in silly situations, or mixing up those names. So the goal isn't for accuracy. Jong-Il Obama probably doesn't convey the joke as well as Barack Jong-Il, to an American at least.

[Millenion]

Even though you are absolutely correct, most Westerners probably recognize Jong-Il as being the surname of Kim Jong-Il. The purpose of the random name generation is to provide comedic effect by using well-known names in silly situations, or mixing up those names. So the goal isn't for accuracy. Jong-Il Obama probably doesn't convey the joke as well as Barack Jong-Il, to an American at least.

So, you're basically saying that NS is racist against asian players?

[Arumdaum]

Even though you are absolutely correct, most Westerners probably recognize Jong-Il as being the surname of Kim Jong-Il. The purpose of the random name generation is to provide comedic effect by using well-known names in silly situations, or mixing up those names. So the goal isn't for accuracy. Jong-Il Obama probably doesn't convey the joke as well as Barack Jong-Il, to an American at least.

So, you're basically saying that NS is racist against asian players?

No, he's saying that NS is appealing to a Western audience.

[Millenion]

So, you're basically saying that NS is racist against asian players?

No, he's saying that NS is appealing to a Western audience.

This is still discrimination, to some extent. If you're mostly catering to Westerners, you can't just forget the Asian players? You're all such hypocrites.

[Astrolinium]

No, he's saying that NS is appealing to a Western audience.

This is still discrimination, to some extent. If you're mostly catering to Westerners, you can't just forget the Asian players? You're all such hypocrites.

The game is supposed to be funny. Just take it as more humor. It's not like Max and [violet] sat in a dark little room, rubbing their hands together as they giggled over ways to piss off certain demographics.

[Arumdaum]

No, he's saying that NS is appealing to a Western audience.

This is still discrimination, to some extent. If you're mostly catering to Westerners, you can't just forget the Asian players? You're all such hypocrites.

Of course we're not forgetting about the Asian players. They can do whatever anyone else can do here on the forums.

Jong-il being put at the end here is for comedic effect. This shit isn't even offensive. I'm Asian, and I don't give a shit.

What do you want NS to do? Translate everything into every single language?

[Liventia]

No, he's saying that NS is appealing to a Western audience.

This is still discrimination, to some extent. If you're mostly catering to Westerners, you can't just forget the Asian players? You're all such hypocrites.

Get over it.

And I say this as someone who's played the game since December 2002 and as someone from Singapore.

It's been in the game from the start, it's not meant to be racist, and it anyone contrives to make it one then they should just stop playing the game.

The "hypocrites" remark was uncalled for.

[Azrael]

Be like me. I've known that Jong-Il is his given name and I never complained about it. I noticed it was odd, but I just decided to leave it be and continue sortin' my issues. It ain't that big a deal, man.

[Crushing Our Enemies]

Just because in the code, Jong-Il is listed as a "family name" doesn't mean that the game is supposing that it is, in fact, a family name. All it is supposing is that it's the name that comes second when stating someone's full name. Which is true. What's the problem?

[Glen-Rhodes]

For the record, my last post was my opinion, not a NationStates Official Issues Policy.

[Eist]

So, in summary:

1) We were ignorant, and now we are enlightened, but we shouldn’t fix (or even better, remove) the error because other people are ignorant?

2) There are not many ‘Asian’ (WTF?) players on NS, therefore it doesn’t matter

3) I’m Asian, therefore it is not offensive

4) Haha it’s just a game so it doesn’t matter if some people find it offensive that others are bastardising their culture into their own Western one.

To all of you:

[The Murtunian Tribes]

So, in summary:

1) We were ignorant, and now we are enlightened, but we shouldn’t fix (or even better, remove) the error because other people are ignorant?

2) There are not many ‘Asian’ (WTF?) players on NS, therefore it doesn’t matter

3) I’m Asian, therefore it is not offensive

4) Haha it’s just a game so it doesn’t matter if some people find it offensive that others are bastardising their culture into their own Western one.

To all of you:

No, we shouldn't fix the problem because there is no problem. First off, says who the names in the issues are given name+family name? Could very easily be the other way around if you choose to see it that way. Second, nobody is 'bastardizing' anyone's culture here. Are we gonna have two different sets for eastern and western names to make sure that the names are structured properly so the three people in this game who are offended feel better? It's a text based browser game and it's just not that damn complex, get over it. Third, this is a complete waste of an admin's time to fix this. Yes, I'm aware it would take like five seconds, but that's still a waste of five seconds. It means that little.

[New Synavia]

The point is, this game is supposed to be off-the-walls bizarre.

Which is already achieved by the random name generator.

This.
"Billy-Bob Nagasawa"

[Holaloperho]

Guys, he is not even offense by it, he just want to change it from family name into given name
THIS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH DISCRIMINATION OR RESPECT OTHERS CULTURE, INSTEAD, THIS IS ABOUT CORRECTNESS.

[The Most Glorious Hack]

Maybe we're referencing Ms. Jong-Il who has the first name of Kim? She's a nice lady, but gets a lot of flack for an unfortunate similarity.

[Brian Cox]

I find it funny that everyone who is accusing this guy of taking the issue too seriously is actually taking it WAY more seriously that he is. Would you really all be completely offended if the name was changed from Jong-Il to Kim? Would it really be that much effort? This person isn't asking for a radical re-hauling of the entire game, just a simple name change. It's not the end of the bloody world and wouldn't take an age to fix.

He never said it was a big deal, never said it was offending him, just that it was uncomfortable. He never said anything like "IF YOU DON'T CHANGE THIS I'M NOT GONNA PLAY ANY MORE", which he might as well have said judging by the way you're all reacting.

By the way, I'm a Westerner and even I knew that Jong-Il is not a family name. It's not just "a few Asians" who notice it. As he said, Westerners often re-arrange the family name to go last, all he is asking is that we do the same for Kim Jong-Il/Jong-Il Kim. It's not that big a deal really and I support this minor change.

[Crushing Our Enemies]

I think it will help to reframe the issue if we realize that it doesn't go "given name, family name" it goes "first name, second name". So, with Korean names like Kim Jong-Il, it's appropriate to put the family name first, followed by the given name. Following our construction of "first name, second name" that would make the correct name... Kim Jong-Il. Which is how the game displays it. Just because some people don't realize that the first name is the family name doesn't mean we should switch it around to be incorrect.