Length of Update

[Improving Wordiness]

This has come up before a couple of times. Currently update it is running for approx 2 hours 40 minutes at major and slightly shorter at minor.
This has an impact on the invader / defender game. Quite a large impact in fact. Almost all invasions now take place during update.
With invaders being able to use the daily data dump and Halcones tool to predict variance in update (this pinpoints a regions update time to within seconds) it has evolved into what was a short window of opportunity to quite a large one.
Defenders now sit coast watching for up to 6 hours a day. Naturally they get bored / busy or just pissed off. Invaders are not disadvantaged by the length of update as they do not need to be online until a short time prior to the planned invasion.
I imagine the update length is due to game changes and suspect it will get even get longer with more features coming up.
My suggestion is that if update is to be further stretched then please randomize the update times of regions over 12 hours.
Or is it possible to have all regions update at the same time?

[Crushing Our Enemies]

My suggestion is that if update is to be further stretched then please randomize the update times of regions over 12 hours.
Or is it possible to have all regions update at the same time?

So, your complaint is that the update is too long. And your possible solutions are:

1. Do away with the raider/defender game altogether.
or
2. Make it impossible to defend. (Simultaneous update times makes it impossible to defend more than one invasion per update, effectively killing the defender side of the game.)

I can't say I care much for either one.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

This has come up before a couple of times. Currently update it is running for approx 2 hours 40 minutes at major and slightly shorter at minor.
This has an impact on the invader / defender game. Quite a large impact in fact. Almost all invasions now take place during update.
With invaders being able to use the daily data dump and Halcones tool to predict variance in update (this pinpoints a regions update time to within seconds) it has evolved into what was a short window of opportunity to quite a large one.
Defenders now sit coast watching for up to 6 hours a day. Naturally they get bored / busy or just pissed off. Invaders are not disadvantaged by the length of update as they do not need to be online until a short time prior to the planned invasion.
I imagine the update length is due to game changes and suspect it will get even get longer with more features coming up.
My suggestion is that if update is to be further stretched then please randomize the update times of regions over 12 hours.

Let's just hope it doesn't get longer.

Or is it possible to have all regions update at the same time?

That...would be interesting, to say the least.

[SunRawr]

You complain that the length has had a huge impact on the R/D game, but you suggest changes that could kill it? That doesn't make sense.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

You complain that the length has had a huge impact on the R/D game, but you suggest changes that could kill it? That doesn't make sense.

It does, when you REALLY think about it.

[SunRawr]

You complain that the length has had a huge impact on the R/D game, but you suggest changes that could kill it? That doesn't make sense.

It does, when you REALLY think about it.

Haha. I guess you are right

[Improving Wordiness]

You guys could make some suggestions of your own you know

Currently it is killing the defender side of the game. While I enjoy the new features we have and look forward to others it has impacted.
I would be happy if it could be shortened to the hour it used to be and have asked for that in the past.

[Crushing Our Enemies]

I'd like to point out that defenders are doing rather well considering the challenges of a long update. I haven't noticed any increase in the success rate of invader operations as the length of the update grows.

EDIT: I'd be in favor of a shorter update, but I don't think anyone on that side of the debate is willing to pay for the shiny new servers it would require to shorten the update.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

You guys could make some suggestions of your own you know

Currently it is killing the defender side of the game. While I enjoy the new features we have and look forward to others it has impacted.
I would be happy if it could be shortened to the hour it used to be and have asked for that in the past.

I'm not a techie, I don't know how to help update times. You REALLY want my advice? Stop wasting your time coast watching for a bunch of deadwood regions nobody cares about and focus on blitzkrieg style liberations.

You're welcome.

[Crushing Our Enemies]

You REALLY want my advice? Stop wasting your time coast watching for a bunch of deadwood regions nobody cares about and focus on blitzkrieg style liberations.

You're welcome.

Translation: "You REALLY want my advice? Stop defending,and start raiding. You're welcome."

[The Murtunian Tribes]

You REALLY want my advice? Stop wasting your time coast watching for a bunch of deadwood regions nobody cares about and focus on blitzkrieg style liberations.

You're welcome.

Translation: "You REALLY want my advice? Stop defending,and start raiding. You're welcome."

Meh, semantics. I'm not gonna start a liberations=raiding argument. Easily one of the dumbest subjects in Gameplay.

[Crushing Our Enemies]

I was just being snarky.

[Improving Wordiness]

Well that would effectively mean invaders are defending the region they invaded while defenders are turned into invaders.
Meanwhile the natives of the region are tormented, suppressed, possibly banjected and the WFE is violated.
Not the plan I am looking for but thanks.

[Tramiar]

Translation: TITO libs from noobs.


Anyway, randomizing updates or making everything update at once is just a bad idea...

[The Murtunian Tribes]

I was just being snarky.

That's how it starts. One thing leads to another, and before you know it BOOM!, a full blown propaganda war the likes of which would make Joseph Goebbels cry in his pants.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

Well that would effectively mean invaders are defending the region they invaded while defenders are turned into invaders.
Meanwhile the natives of the region are tormented, suppressed, possibly banjected and the WFE is violated.
Not the plan I am looking for but thanks.

Well, yea, if you fail, obviously. That's why you BLITZKRIEG.

[Improving Wordiness]

Much as I love a good conversation on liberation methods I am looking for ways to combat update length.

[Spartzerium]

Make the update shorter, yes. It was way easier when update was 1 1/2 hours long, and the 2 1/2 (almost 3) hour long update is getting tedious. But I don't like either of those ideas.

Random updates... to be honest, I'd probably quit defending if that was implemented, as liberations would be impossible, and I don't consider plain defenses much fun. Everyone except TITO would be negatively affected, really. Only because TITO doesn't do libs. The other defender orgs who do would take a huge hit, and so would the invader regions.

All regions updating at the exact same time... that would definitely help invaders. Really, invaders wouldn't have to do a thing. Just move a couple seconds before update, and bam, they've got the delegacy. And defenders would barely be able to spot any of these raids. Let's say 100 events happen on the WA happenings each update. Update lasts only a few seconds. It'd be virtually impossible keeping up. Defenders might be able to use scripts, but otherwise...

There's tons of stuff we could do if defenders would just work together. We could use the invaders' own tactics to liberate regions from them. Game changes aren't always the solution, and in this case, I'm pretty sure it's not.

[Improving Wordiness]

Game changes have caused this problem though and with further changes coming I want to address this problem now.
Now from what I am hearing sounds like most defenders are moving away from actually defending and are becoming liberators / cleaners largely due to the length of update and the fact that invaders now have a tool to pinpoint update.
The damage to regions has already been done once invaded.

[Tramiar]

Game changes have caused this problem though and with further changes coming I want to address this problem now.
Now from what I am hearing sounds like most defenders are moving away from actually defending and are becoming liberators / cleaners largely due to the length of update and the fact that invaders now have a tool to pinpoint update.
The damage to regions has already been done once invaded.

Invaders don't need a tool to pinpoint update.

Also, defenders are just as able to pinpoint update as invaders are. They have the same abilities. The question is, do you figure out how to use them for your benefit, or do you complain about the invaders having them?

As for liberating.. liberations will always be needed, defenses or not. You're not gonna stop every raid.

[SunRawr]

Almost all invasions now take place during update.

I'd also like to point out that this is partially due to the fancy tools that certain defenders use. They make it a lot harder to do non-update raids, so we have to compensate. It wouldn't be fair to change the rules on us. We didn't make this situation.

[Improving Wordiness]

Well as stated I would be happy just to have update take the hour / hour and a half it used to take. That seems unlikely to happen.
Now I am trying to come up with solutions in order for defenders to continue to be defenders. Not liberator / cleaners.
Sure there will always be regions we cannot defend that will need to be liberated. Defending is reactive and relies on spotters and speed.
Right now that balance has been lost and it is leaning heavily on the liberate side.

[Ballotonia]

The balance has indeed been lost. Been lost for quite some time, actually, this isn't a new thing.

Problem is, a shorter update time won't balance anything. It just means the same stuff happening now will happen in a shorter window of time.

A typical invasion we see these days starts with a small group of quick-jumping invaders to take the delegacy from a sleepy native delegate. Since they jump just a few seconds before update they're close to impossible to stop by defenders. Even if they're stopped, they'll just try again a little later. So the end result of this step is clear: invaders obtain the delegacy. Second step is to call in 20 or more non-updaters. They can take 12 hours to move in and provide an endorsement. The resulting pile of endorsements would have to be beaten liberation-style, which would require 20+ quick-jumping updaters... fighting against an invader delegate who (quite contrary to the native they took the delegacy from) is watching update time closely and will start banning at break-neck speed. Odds of defenders winning that one is also pretty close to zero, assuming we can get the numbers together to even make an attempt. Keep in mind: for every non-updater they use we have to use a nation active at update. All the time the invaders gather Influence, and they can build up until they can gut the region. See: North Atlantic as a recent example.

Now cut the update time down to one hour. Does any of the above change in any way? You might stop a few more invasions in the first step, but that merely delays the inevitable: a lock in followed by invaders griefing the region into oblivion. And, yes, I do know some invaders do indeed stop before the region is entirely empty. They get bored, I guess, and move on to a new victim region.

Don't get me wrong, I do support cutting down the update time. But for an entirely different reason: it saves me valuable time. Being a defender is WAY more time-consuming than being an invader.

Ballotonia

[Improving Wordiness]

The trouble is that the option to defend is being lost. Instead of being a defensive player it feels like we are being forced to become aggressive players.
Shorter update means I can have spotters and people around to deploy. They no longer are asked to sit around for almost 6 hours a day on the chance an invasion is spotted and we have more than a 3 second window to move. Don't get me wrong, we do not spot everything. The invasion of North Carolina for instance. That one completely snuck past me (due to europeia being sneaky and quite good at it)
Nothing I can do about invasions that use a tool to pinpoint update. Violet has made it clear that wont be changing (it is on my wishlist that regions vary by a small amount each time. Even 30 seconds can make a difference)

[Mahaj]

I'm against the regions update time being intentionally varied. This is doesn't seem to help anybody and would hurt defenders trying to pinpoint move times for a liberation.