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Add regions to your Dossier?

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Neasmyrna
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Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Neasmyrna » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:10 pm

I think this was a feature in NS2 *makes hissing sounds at the pronunciation of NS2* . I took a quick look through the list of improvements and didn't see anything about adding the ability to put regions in your dossier. This wouldn't be a huge thing. But if it could be done would be nice to have. :roll:

What do ya'll think?
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Anime Daisuki
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Anime Daisuki » Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:40 pm

What kind of things would it show?

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Neasmyrna
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Neasmyrna » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:45 pm

It would be similar to what you get when you press list regions... only for only one (or however many you have) bookmarked regions... the name, number of people and delegate.

The biggest problem aside from just the general process of adding and re-organizing things would be where to put the button that would add a region to your dossier.

As of now when you want to check on a certain region you have to search for it every time... having a region dossier would let you just click 2-3 times to get there.
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Pythagosaurus
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Pythagosaurus » Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:35 pm

Seems reasonable.

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Cheztope
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Cheztope » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:08 am

That is a fine idea, cuts back on time as well. but personally, I don't use the dossier that much.

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Todd McCloud
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Todd McCloud » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:18 am

This would more than likely sway the pendulum of raider vs defender *more* in favor of the defenders. I'd sort of like to even the playing field to give both sides equality, not keep pushing things farther back.
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Pythagosaurus
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Pythagosaurus » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:25 am

I think the advantage would be infinitesimal. Surely the defenders prepare to enter a region more than a few seconds in advance. The buttons on nation pages for banning and ejecting are surely a much bigger influence.

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Unibot
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Unibot » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:27 am

Besides don't raiders like to keep tabs on the population of regions they've raided to be aware of odd influxes of nations coming in (liberators) ?

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Neasmyrna
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Neasmyrna » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:28 am

Pythagosaurus wrote:I think the advantage would be infinitesimal. Surely the defenders prepare to enter a region more than a few seconds in advance. The buttons on nation pages for banning and ejecting are surely a much bigger influence.


Yeah...

I wasn't even really thinking about the "defender advantage"

The only way it would help would be by being able to scan through hot regions a little faster... but I was thinking it was more useful for recruiting purposes... as I've tried adding feeder delegates in order to switch through the feeders quicker but it just doesn't work so well.
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Naivetry
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Naivetry » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:07 am

Pythagosaurus wrote:I think the advantage would be infinitesimal. Surely the defenders prepare to enter a region more than a few seconds in advance. The buttons on nation pages for banning and ejecting are surely a much bigger influence.

Actually, this would be a pretty substantial advantage for defenders when defending (as opposed to liberating). Right now, we have to watch every Founderless region (plus regions with Founders close to CTEing) by hand. That takes a huge amount of time and effort and diligence every night. If this went in, everyone could do it in a matter of a couple of minutes. We might not be able to stop update raids using it, but we very rarely can stop those anyway. (Really, I don't know why raiders don't just execute update invasions all the time rather than trickling in. We have to do that with liberations every time. ;) )

Neas - Bookmark in a set of tabs, refresh. :P
Last edited by Naivetry on Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dysian
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Dysian » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:22 am

Indeed, this would be a huge blow on the invaders, and yes Naivetry, your chance of countering update raids WILL be increased by at least 70%. Here's why (if you really haven't figured it out yet, and you're not just acting so it can pass):

A region in your dossier, means that you get reports from said region. It's actually very simple: a well trained defenders puts all founderless regions in his dossier, and just checks the dossier at update for "suspicious actions", calls his people in and it's done. Sure this may not seem very easy for one sole defender - but if you take in account that defenders are all over this game, and seemingly a majority over raiders, you will realise that this feature would make update raids practically impossible. And they're hard to do even now (trust me, I would know!).

This would make it WAY too easy for defenders to instant locate update raids. Without that feature, fendas need to do some research and try to "sniff" where a raid would happen in order to stop it, whereas only the most professionally-planned ones succeed (like for instance those I am involved in hehehe).

I mean come on, the raiders are already crushed to the ground with the installation of liberation resolutions. When those came out, fendas were using excuses for them, like: "We're OK with raiding, but we can't stand region crashing." This regions in dossier thingy goes further beyond - it makes normal raiding (which you said you're ok with) virtually impossible to do (not to say that I still consider region crashing a natural part of the raiding game as well). Don't push your agenda of destroying us through the game admins, because remember - we are still the life of this game, the very reason defenders exist, and the only ones who actually bring activity to this otherwise blank game, no matter how much all of you try to deny that simple fact.

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Unibot
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Unibot » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:33 am

I mean come on, the raiders are already crushed to the ground with the installation of liberation resolutions. When those came out, fendas were using excuses for them, like: "We're OK with raiding, but we can't stand region crashing." This regions in dossier thingy goes further beyond - it makes normal raiding (which you said you're ok with) virtually impossible to do (not to say that I still consider region crashing a natural part of the raiding game as well). Don't push your agenda of destroying us through the game admins, because remember - we are still the life of this game, the very reason defenders exist, and the only ones who actually bring activity to this otherwise blank game, no matter how much all of you try to deny that simple fact.


I'm still awaiting on your book on "How the Liberation Category killed Raiding".

As far as I know, France was liberated by a fluke technical problem (Texas?) which was capitalized by the enthusiastic liberators previous to "Liberate France" making it to vote. "Liberate Belgium" merely removed the password on a region already liberated by defenders a day or two previous. I have no clue what's going on in Feudal Japan, though ironically I am the Co-author of the liberation proposal -- it looks to me like the place is still under raider control, and in fact with the recent liberation it seems to have become quite re-energized with activity.

By the way I saw Notping's post on the RMB of Feudal Japan,
We are facing a slight problem. There are not enough of us on the Nationstates Forums. These forums are currently now quite biased to the defenders (when the raiding/defending game is concerned). We need more people there speaking up for us. Martyrdoom's doing a good job there already, but we can't rely on him alone. So, raiders, step up and banish the defender propaganda all over that place.

On a another note... defenders (Neasmyrna) are now pushing for the ability to add regions to their dossier. This is an experienced [i]defender's[i] (Naivetry) point of view.

[i]Actually, this would be a pretty substantial advantage for defenders when defending (as opposed to liberating). Right now, we have to watch every Founderless region (plus regions with Founders close to CTEing) by hand. That takes a huge amount of time and effort and diligence every night. If this went in, everyone could do it in a matter of a couple of minutes. We might not be able to stop update raids using it, but we very rarely can stop those anyway. (Really, I don't know why raiders don't just execute update invasions all the time rather than trickling in. We have to do that with liberations every time. )

Neas - Bookmark in a set of tabs, refresh. [i]

Do you not see how much harm this feature will bring to update raids? Further bad news is that site Admin Pythagosaurus thinks it "Seems reasonable". We need to go over there and convince him otherwise.


If you'd like to me to link a well-written raider's point of view on the concept to the Big List of Ideas. I'd be more than willing to.

I think one solution to this problem could be to allow only founder-controlled regions in dossiers? Though that seems a little discriminative to founderless regions.
Last edited by Unibot on Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dysian
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Dysian » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:40 am

Unibot wrote: I have no clue what's going on in Feudal Japan, though ironically I am the Co-author of the liberation proposal

... which just proves you people don't actually care about the objective situation, as long as what you do contributes to your evil agenda of destroying raiders, and destroying nationstates thereby.

Yes, fendas want to destroy this game, they are EVIL! :D :D :D

Oh and, liberations didnt kill us, they just kicked us to the ground. But we stand up and fight like proud warriors. We don't demand to change the rules of chess halfway through the game, unlike yourselves. Sad thing is, admins do change the game...

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Unibot
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Unibot » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:47 am

... which just proves you people don't actually care about the objective situation, as long as what you do contributes to your evil agenda of destroying raiders, and destroying nationstates thereby.


Um, I was co-author because I helped with the language of proposal in the drafting phase. The proposal's actual writer was an active member of Gameplay.

Oh and, liberations didnt kill us, they just kicked us to the ground. But we stand up and fight like proud warriors. We don't demand to change the rules of chess halfway through the game, unlike yourselves. Sad thing is, admins do change the game...


If we follow that allegory, unfortunately for you, the admins originally did not intend for you to play chess -- they wanted you to play cricket. Rules will obvious have to made up along the way to benefit the quality of play for both sides of the chessboard.
Last edited by Unibot on Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Numero Capitan
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Numero Capitan » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:49 am

If it didnt include founderless regions then that would defy the point of the idea, to get to feeders quicker for recruiting.

I would suggest that this regional section to the dossier would affect the reports so that it would cancel that effect.

If you're worried about defenders watching the populations for quick rises then you can only see 15 regions per page anyway, you could restrict the dossier size to ten regions if you wanted, or remove the population column.

It annoys me when people are ruling ideas out outright with the broken record line of "it swings the balance too far". Any coding changes must have some benefit to all players as a general rule. The liberation proposals did, any of us might need it in future, not necessarily for countering raiders. We should be looking for alternatives and trying to improve the game rather than this partisan bickering that game improvement topics seem to create. RMB posts such as that one quoted above are ridiculous, this is a forum for ALL NS players, not another battlezone for invader vs defender ideology and any coding adjustments made should reflect that.
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Unibot
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Unibot » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:54 am

Would the defender advantage be stricken from the idea if population counts were not included in the regional dossier ?

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Dysian
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Dysian » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:59 am

The fact is, that any new changes that seem to come up, as well as pretty much anything else that happens on this forum is biased. Using liberations for other things than countering raids - yeah right... like telling me Santa Claus exists.

No seriously, don't tell me that. And don't tell me chess rules should be changed. I'd go for only foundered regions in the dossier, but there again you use excuses. When I recruited, for better access to feeders, I created a region called Recruiter, took a walk with it's founder through all feeders, so they can appear on the region's happenings, and then passworded it. Maybe it's because I'm just smarter than the person who wrote this proposal, or maybe because I'm not trying to undermine raiders pretending to be doing something else... who knows? Anyway, you can in all case add "foundered+feeders" as a possibility to add to dossier.

But my genuine oppinion, is that no new changes are needed - actually I'd like to see the evil liberation proposals banned, as they have brought nothing but trouble to the very life-bringers of this game (invaders).

P.S. and no Unibot it wouldn't, you could still see who moves in/out etc.

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Darkesia
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Darkesia » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:01 am

If, the desire to add regions to one's dossier is motivated by a wish to have an easier time recruiting, perhaps we could get a feature that allows regions to be added to the dossier, but reporting is still restricted to nations only. I have no idea if that would be too hard to code or not. But it eliminates the use of region based reporting for monitoring and still allows for quicker navigation.

Frankly, I don't see what the difference is between adding a region to your dossier and adding a nation from each region you need to watch/recruit. *shrugs* This seems unnecessary to me.
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Unibot
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Unibot » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:02 am

P.S. and no Unibot it wouldn't, you could still see who moves in/out etc.


But then the dossier would essentially be a replacement for a load of bookmarks in one's browser ?

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Dysian
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Dysian » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:04 am

Unibot wrote:
P.S. and no Unibot it wouldn't, you could still see who moves in/out etc.


But then the dossier would essentially be a replacement for a load of bookmarks in one's browser ?


well I didn't say we need it, did I :D :D :D

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Unibot
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Unibot » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:09 am

I don't honestly think the author of this idea intended the dossier to say all of the regional happenings of a selected region.

Though if you really wanted to blank the regional happenings quickly you could just endorse some WA proposals. I'm sure raiders could think of something.

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Dysian
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Dysian » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:11 am

we think more, you think less - see where it leads?

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Unibot
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Unibot » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:29 am

Dysian wrote:we think more, you think less - see where it leads?


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Last edited by Unibot on Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Pythagosaurus
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Pythagosaurus » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:38 am

I haven't read through all this yet, but what I gather is that the defender advantage would come from the Reports page. Well, what if I just didn't add regions to that?

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Todd McCloud
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Re: Add regions to your Dossier?

Postby Todd McCloud » Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:52 am

Pythagosaurus wrote:I haven't read through all this yet, but what I gather is that the defender advantage would come from the Reports page. Well, what if I just didn't add regions to that?


Allow annexations where they'd be permanently viewed in the region's history, and I'll allow this, yep
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