Adding finance and banking as one of the industries

[Holaloperho]

I think it would be a good idea to add finance and banking as one of the industries in private sector.
What do you guys think about it?

[Chaotropia]

Well it's more of a sector than just a private industry. I would like it as an addition - however it's nothing without the inclusion of new issues to alter it - basically a fair bit of work.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

Actually we wouldn't need new issues. There are already a few issues regarding bailouts and what not. And new issues themselves wouldn't be so much of a problem if they would just get a few more people to volunteer as editors. The real problem would be that we (and by we, I mean someone else ) would have to go back and recode all the previous issues that could have an impact on banking. Which could be fairly easy or really difficult, depending on how many there are that would need to be altered.

[[violet]]

Yeah. Tempting to do it, though, because the number of industries is very limited.

[Unibot II]

Yeah. Tempting to do it, though, because the number of industries is very limited.

If you were to do so, it probably would be smart to differentiate several new industries now, and overhaul it all at once. My suggestion would be a Home Security industry and perhaps the Bottled Water industry. Several issues discuss home safety, robber's rights and the privatization of the police -- and let's face it, the possibilities are endless with a Bottled Water industry.

[Lordieth]

Other industries that tie in with issues;


Waste Disposal
Pet Supplies
Firearms
Plastic
Paper
Recycling
Alcohol
Pharmaceuticals
Souvenirs
Snacks

Those are the ones that come easily to mind that tie in with several issues. Apologies if any are already established industries.

[Ballotonia]

What I'm seeing currently is that it's the same few nations who score high on all industry rankings. In that sense adding more industries has the risk of being more of the same.

Ballotonia

[Lordieth]

A simple solution Ballotonia would be to have single issues that effect different industries depending on the option you pick - that way it'd be very difficult to rank top in all industries, as you'd either have to divide which industries to support or target a particular industry. That makes the rankings less linear and allows other nations to rank higher in a particular industry. An example would be a waste disposal vs recycling industry issue - picking one could lower the other, making ranking top in both pretty tough. You don't have to lower other industries to make this work though. The point is you couldn't raise them all equally.

[Holaloperho]

A simple solution Ballotonia would be to have single issues that effect different industries depending on the option you pick - that way it'd be very difficult to rank top in all industries, as you'd either have to divide which industries to support or target a particular industry. That makes the rankings less linear and allows other nations to rank higher in a particular industry. An example would be a waste disposal vs recycling industry issue - picking one could lower the other, making ranking top in both pretty tough. You don't have to lower other industries to make this work though. The point is you couldn't raise them all equally.

This is a good idea, but not every industries contradict each other. For example, you can't find a industry to lower for Tourism industry.

[Lordieth]

Ok, an alternate example;

Advertising Rights Issue;
Support Soda Sales
Support Alcohol Sales
Support Bottled Water Sales

To rank top in any of those industries, you would have to focus on one of them. You couldn't be the best at all three - see?

[Ballotonia]

I was more thinking of an inherent conflict between industries. Examples:

ICT: this would mean one has a high-educated populace.
basket-weaving: this would mean one has a low-educated poor populace.

woodchip exports: this would mean one has a bad environment, as one chops down lots of trees.
tourism: this would mean one has a beautiful environment, with lots of trees.

sandal sales: people walk a lot instead of using cars.
automobile manufacturing: people use cars, only walk between car and front door.


Tying the industries into a state of the nation means one cannot top ALL industries, like one can do now. So, have industries which are the 'opposites' (in some sense) of existing ones.

Arms Manufacturing	Pigeon breeding
Automobile Manufacturing	Sandal Sales
Basket Weaving	Information Technology
Beef-Based Agriculture	Vegetarian Fast Food Restaurants
Book Publishing	Film Industry
Cheese Exports	Milk Imports
Door-to-Door Insurance Sales	?
Furniture Restoration	Self-assembly Furniture Sales
Gambling	?
Pizza Delivery	Restaurant Sector
Retail	?
Soda Sales	Tap Water Sales
Trout Farming	Fishing
Uranium Mining	Windmill Manufacturing
Woodchip Exports	Tourism

Just a rough draft, to explain what I mean.

Ballotonia

[Bears Armed]

A simple solution Ballotonia would be to have single issues that effect different industries depending on the option you pick - that way it'd be very difficult to rank top in all industries, as you'd either have to divide which industries to support or target a particular industry. That makes the rankings less linear and allows other nations to rank higher in a particular industry. An example would be a waste disposal vs recycling industry issue - picking one could lower the other, making ranking top in both pretty tough. You don't have to lower other industries to make this work though. The point is you couldn't raise them all equally.

This is a good idea, but not every industries contradict each other. For example, you can't find a industry to lower for Tourism industry.

Wood-chipping? Uranium mining?

[Lordieth]

Ballotonia that's quite a major overhaul, and it`s a very interesting concept, but nation-type influencing industry is practically game altering. A bad environment doesn't necessarily correlate to a strong woodchips export industry. However an 'industry bonus' that can be added or removed depending on the stats you mentioned wouldn't be so bad - if you already have those industries. Stats should only influence industry, not create them (ignoring the random main industry you start with). Issues should remain the main focus.

[Unibot II]

The Music industry also is covered by several issues, if I'm not mistaken, one about heavy rock and another about artist's rights.

[Bears Armed]

And then there's the Oil industry, of course...

[Flibbleites]

Firearms

Wouldn't that already be there under Arms Manufacturing?

[Chaotropia]

Edit: Nevermind

[Lordieth]

Firearms

Wouldn't that already be there under Arms Manufacturing?

Yeah, my mistake.

Wasted a perfectly bad joke by posting it with my puppet too. Flaming Limbs...<sigh>

[[violet]]

Some great ideas in this thread!

I completely agree that it's a little dull seeing the same nations topping all the industry rankings. The problem here is that many current issues have an effect on commerce in general, boosting or penalizing your industries across the board. The NS global Top 10 nations all have monstrously large modifiers like this, after years of consistently answering issues the same way, so any new industry we introduce will immediately be calculated as very strong in those nations.

Avoiding this would require some tricky restructuring of how we calculate industry strength. The idea of "opposite industries" is a pretty good one, but I'm not sure it always makes sense to assume that one being large means the other is small. That is, I can perfectly imagine plausible nations in which all of those industries, including "opposite" ones, are larger than in another (economic basket case) nation.

[Lordieth]

What if each industry had an independent modifier, and a global modifier? So an economy boost would increase all by X (global) times Y (independent), so new industries could have a high global modifier but a low independent one. Does that make sense?


Edit: Ok I guess that's how it works already - what if industries were decimalised? So 0.25 * huge nation modifier wouldn't make new industries automatically big in nations with huge modifiers. Not unless they keep supporting that industry over time. That way for huge nations new industry growth starts low and grows into a positive modifier - it reduces the gap between newer and older nations with super modifiers.

[Holaloperho]

What if each industry had an independent modifier, and a global modifier? So an economy boost would increase all by X (global) times Y (independent), so new industries could have a high global modifier but a low independent one. Does that make sense?


Edit: Ok I guess that's how it works already - what if industries were decimalised? So 0.25 * huge nation modifier wouldn't make new industries automatically big in nations with huge modifiers. Not unless they keep supporting that industry over time. That way for huge nations new industry growth starts low and grows into a positive modifier - it reduces the gap between newer and older nations with super modifiers.

I kind of agree with what you say, but can you give out a example. I think I am confuse

[Itinerate Tree Dweller]

I think Lemonade Stands should also be an official industry, specifically for nations with imploded economies. Unless those governments have already stomped those lemonade stands out, that is.

[Holaloperho]

I think Lemonade Stands should also be an official industry, specifically for nations with imploded economies. Unless those governments have already stomped those lemonade stands out, that is.

AGREE !!

[Lordieth]

Ok, let's say you have two nations; Newzia and Oldtopia. Now lets introduce a new industry to both nations; Clothing

Lets say the Clothing industry has a start size of 0.15. Newzia has an economy of 52, and Oldtopia 752.

Newzia Clothes; 7.2
Oldtopia Clothes; 112.8

Now, lets say both nations already have a Mining industry of 3.

Newzia Mining; 156
Oldtopia Mining; 2256

Now compare Newzia Mining to Oldtopia Clothes; because the decimal system makes the modifier decrease, massive Oldtopia can't have a stronger NEW industry than tiny Newzia's OLD industry.

It doesn't change current rankings, it just makes new industries smaller in relation to older ones, and thus huge powerful nations can't get get automatically massive new industries.

This is only a relative example however, to make it work Newzia has to get the new industry to a whole number, which then shrinks the gap between Newzia Clothes and Oldtopia Clothes, which then has a larger focus on the industry than the economy size.

[Lordieth]

Another idea is to make the new industry modifier inverse to the nation modifier; The bigger the nation the smaller the starting industry.