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Frontiers/Strongholds [ex Democracy/Autocracy]

Bug reports, general help, ideas for improvements, and questions about how things are meant to work.

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Sedgistan
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Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:12 pm

Mikeswill wrote:Does this mean that Founderless Regions remain Founderless?
ie. I am unable to ask to become Founder of NationStates and opt in the Frontier status?

One of the key points of the change is that regions in your situation by default are no better or worse off than they are now -- unless you count the miniscule chance in your case of someone successfully invading and occupying the region long enough to switch it to "Frontier" status and back to gain what is effectively the new name for an Executive Founder (Executive Governor); but that's not too different to the risk you already face of someone successfully invading and locking down / refounding your region.

There is the additional opportunity that you could use the new mechanics yourself to change to Frontier and back to Stronghold and get yourself the equivalent of Executive Founder status (Executive Governor), which gives you long-term security. I would imagine that you would have the political clout/friends to get the support needed to do that if you wanted.

The Stalker (Delegate of long-term founderless Hell) is in effectively the same position as yourself, and was heavily involved in the discussions.

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Kuzana
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Founded: Aug 02, 2022
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kuzana » Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:50 pm

Will the switching of founders or from Frontier to Stronghold? Does it require the executive function or does World Assembly access alone cause the switching of a rogue delegate of a non-executive region to loose it's founder to a new one?
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Galiantus III
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Galiantus III » Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:04 pm

Kuzana wrote:Will the switching of founders or from Frontier to Stronghold? Does it require the executive function or does World Assembly access alone cause the switching of a rogue delegate of a non-executive region to loose it's founder to a new one?

Not sure what you are asking with the first question, but for the second one: Switching a stronghold to a frontier requires executive powers. A non-executive delegate can't do it. There is also a serious influence cost for an executive delegate to initiate the change, and it takes two weeks to complete, during which time anyone with executive power can cancel the transition at no cost. Basically, it would be extremely difficult to sneak this past an even marginally active founder.
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Sedgistan
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Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:57 am

Coding is happening on this, which means we're at the stage where there's lots of back-and-forth between Violet and myself working out some finer details. There will likely be some tweaks to the plan as well. As and when those are confirmed I'll let people know.

We are still a way away from having beta testers on the "playground" (NS3) for this. I don't intend to work out who will be involved in that until we get there, so please don't ask in the meantime.

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Improper Classifications
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Founded: Apr 18, 2022
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Improper Classifications » Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:00 pm

Will there be a regional officer reset during a transition from either direction?
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Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:The Security Council,

AGHAST at the abuse of the term 'badge hunt' by the Bhang Bhang Ducian WA delegation,

DEMANDING that they stop it,

Hereby Condemns Bhang Bhang Duc.

Another fucking badly written BADGE HUNT!

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Sedgistan
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Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:13 pm

Why would there be?

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Improper Classifications
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Founded: Apr 18, 2022
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Improper Classifications » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:26 pm

Sedgistan wrote:Why would there be?

Well, the theoretical benefit is that the government would be able to appoint officers with border control and then transition from Frontier to Stronghold. Putting a reset on the officer positions, say, as the region completes a transition would let the government start anew.
It could also just be an option if you want to completely restart your government from scratch, and if you don’t want to do the reset then you don’t have to.
Or maybe I’m just rambling. I tend to do that a lot.
Two-term incumbent Scribe of The Eternal Order, Prime Minister of The Great Storm
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:The Security Council,

AGHAST at the abuse of the term 'badge hunt' by the Bhang Bhang Ducian WA delegation,

DEMANDING that they stop it,

Hereby Condemns Bhang Bhang Duc.

Another fucking badly written BADGE HUNT!

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The AmbiS
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Founded: Dec 01, 2021
New York Times Democracy

Postby The AmbiS » Sun Jan 22, 2023 8:13 pm

Improper Classifications wrote:
Sedgistan wrote:Why would there be?

Well, the theoretical benefit is that the government would be able to appoint officers with border control and then transition from Frontier to Stronghold. Putting a reset on the officer positions, say, as the region completes a transition would let the government start anew.
It could also just be an option if you want to completely restart your government from scratch, and if you don’t want to do the reset then you don’t have to.
Or maybe I’m just rambling. I tend to do that a lot.

Sorry if this isn’t my place to talk, but the region that I reside in, RO’s are very important, and that’s the same for other regions as well. Resetting them would be mayhem.
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Sedgistan
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Postby Sedgistan » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:49 pm

There's no intent to implement what Improper Classifications suggested, as there are no coherent reasons to do so.

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Matatic and The Principality of Surkis
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Founded: Apr 20, 2020
Anarchy

Postby Matatic and The Principality of Surkis » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:51 pm

Just for clarification on some technicalities:

If a founder of a stronghold region were to CTE and have an appointed successor, and then were to come back, would they still have executive powers?

Does refounding a region as it functions now still work within this system?

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Sedgistan
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Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:59 am

Matatic and The Principality of Surkis wrote:If a founder of a stronghold region were to CTE and have an appointed successor, and then were to come back, would they still have executive powers?

First off, there's some terminology changes to get your head around first - the "Founder" position is becoming essentially a historical footnote; literally just a nation that founded a region. The new "Governor" position is the one that in Strongholds will hold Executive power (note: any current Executive Founders would automatically become Governors on implementation). If the Governor ceases to exist, and has a Successor set, the intent is that that Successor immediately takes over the Governor position and powers. Thus the former Governor upon restoring their nation will not have Executive powers.

Matatic and The Principality of Surkis wrote:Does refounding a region as it functions now still work within this system?

There's no change to refounding regions.

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Envoy
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Founded: Dec 19, 2022
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Envoy » Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:21 am

Will there be an option for the founder of a new region to choose whether they start off as a Frontier or Stronghold?
Last edited by Envoy on Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tinhampton
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:47 pm

Is the appointment of a Successor mandatory?

Can a Successor resign their position as such like a Governor can?

"A Successor is appointed as a Regional Officer position." Will it count towards the limit of twelve or will the RO limit be bumped up to 12+1 for Strongholds to account for this?
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Sedgistan
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Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:56 pm

Tinhampton wrote:Is the appointment of a Successor mandatory?

No.

Tinhampton wrote:Can a Successor resign their position as such like a Governor can?

"Successor" will be just another RO power. ROs can resign their position.

Tinhampton wrote:"A Successor is appointed as a Regional Officer position." Will it count towards the limit of twelve or will the RO limit be bumped up to 12+1 for Strongholds to account for this?

Hasn't been considered.

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Matatic and The Principality of Surkis
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Founded: Apr 20, 2020
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Postby Matatic and The Principality of Surkis » Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:13 am

Will there be some sort of badge for governors like there is for founders of a region? I don't know if anyone has asked this yet.

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Sedgistan
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Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:25 am

I don't think that particular detail has been discussed, but most "stuff" associated with Founders will instead be associated with the Governor role instead, so the badge may move over entirely.

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Refuge Isle
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Refuge Isle » Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:34 am

If executive power is being moved to a "Governor" role, and the governor/successor dynamic reduces dubious account sharing by making power more reliable and fluid, I also think that it would be a positive aspect to be able to name or rename what that "governor" is called. Probably few regions would call it a "Governor" on their own, but elect for a local term that has the same function, where the customisation is an aid to cultural expression.

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Improper Classifications
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Founded: Apr 18, 2022
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Improper Classifications » Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:58 pm

Refuge Isle wrote:If executive power is being moved to a "Governor" role, and the governor/successor dynamic reduces dubious account sharing by making power more reliable and fluid, I also think that it would be a positive aspect to be able to name or rename what that "governor" is called. Probably few regions would call it a "Governor" on their own, but elect for a local term that has the same function, where the customisation is an aid to cultural expression.

Agreed - we are a monarchy and it makes no sense to make the position Governor rather than s King.
Why not make it customizable?
Two-term incumbent Scribe of The Eternal Order, Prime Minister of The Great Storm
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:The Security Council,

AGHAST at the abuse of the term 'badge hunt' by the Bhang Bhang Ducian WA delegation,

DEMANDING that they stop it,

Hereby Condemns Bhang Bhang Duc.

Another fucking badly written BADGE HUNT!

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Sedgistan
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Posts: 33004
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:20 pm

I get the appeal of allowing customisation, but a single term used across the site is much more readily understood by users across the site.

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Refuge Isle
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Refuge Isle » Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:44 pm

Sedgistan wrote:I get the appeal of allowing customisation, but a single term used across the site is much more readily understood by users across the site.

Not sure why one would discount the possibility of the other tbqh. Not saying you're not allowed to use the term "Governor". I'm recommending you allow regional customisation on top of that.

Image

Additionally, if the concept of "Founder" becomes irrelevant, you can remove or relocate "Founder" to below the WFE or /page=region_history if you think it makes the front page "too cluttered".

Sylh Alanor wrote:You can't stop something once you finish.

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Improper Classifications
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Founded: Apr 18, 2022
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Improper Classifications » Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:58 pm

Refuge Isle wrote:
Sedgistan wrote:I get the appeal of allowing customisation, but a single term used across the site is much more readily understood by users across the site.

Not sure why one would discount the possibility of the other tbqh. Not saying you're not allowed to use the term "Governor". I'm recommending you allow regional customisation on top of that.

Image

Additionally, if the concept of "Founder" becomes irrelevant, you can remove or relocate "Founder" to below the WFE or /page=region_history if you think it makes the front page "too cluttered".

Admin page?
Image
I thought I saw someone asking about if the RO cap would increase to accommodate the Successor position or no and I made this.
Image
Last edited by Improper Classifications on Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Two-term incumbent Scribe of The Eternal Order, Prime Minister of The Great Storm
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Nationalist Northumbria wrote:The Security Council,

AGHAST at the abuse of the term 'badge hunt' by the Bhang Bhang Ducian WA delegation,

DEMANDING that they stop it,

Hereby Condemns Bhang Bhang Duc.

Another fucking badly written BADGE HUNT!

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Waterfall State
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Posts: 43
Founded: Aug 07, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Waterfall State » Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:35 am

So if a region's governor CTE's and there is no appointed successor, it will revert back into a founderless stronghold similiar to current founderless regions and the only recourse of the people in the region to have a governor again is to switch from Stronghold to Frontier and back again assuming they can't somehow convince the CTE'd governor to return and they are not willing to do a conventional refound?
Last edited by Waterfall State on Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sedgistan
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Posts: 33004
Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Sedgistan » Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:36 am

Correct.

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