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Banned Nation Residing in Region They Are Banned From

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Killer Kitty
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Founded: Oct 08, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Banned Nation Residing in Region They Are Banned From

Postby Killer Kitty » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:12 pm

As the title suggests, I was scanning through the Lazarus ban list and I came across this nation:

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=wizardingworld

As of the time of writing they are both banned from Lazarus and on our ban list and also refounded into Lazarus 3 days ago and chilling in the region. This means when I view their page I get the curious sight of both an "eject" and "eject and ban" button as well as an "unban" button.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't this violate game mechanics? Shouldn't this be impossible?
Last edited by Killer Kitty on Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Imperial States America
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Imperial States America » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:16 pm

Killer Kitty wrote:As the title suggests, I was scanning through the Lazarus ban list and I came across this nation:

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=wizardingworld

As of the time of writing they are both banned from Lazarus and on our ban list and also refounded into Lazarus 3 days ago and chilling in the region. This means when I view their page I get the curious sight of both an "eject" and "eject and ban" button as well as an "unban" button.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't this violate game mechanics? Shouldn't this be impossible?

I think it goes away once you let your nation die then refound it or they could have done a slight variation to their name to avoid the ban from the region.

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Bedetopia
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Bedetopia » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:05 am

Nations who somehow get banned from all three sinkers and refound should be forced to refound in The Rejected Realms. Or alternatively refound then the game immediately banjects.

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Enfaru
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Ex-Nation

Postby Enfaru » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:06 am

I see a new raiding tactic incoming...
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Killer Kitty
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Founded: Oct 08, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Killer Kitty » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:33 pm

Enfaru wrote:I see a new raiding tactic incoming...


Well it could be used as an exploit to get around a ban in Osiris, Balder, or Lazarus. You just let your nation CTE and you've got a 1 in 3 chance of being "banned but not banned" when you revive.

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Unibot III
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:27 am

This is an old trick, not a new one! ;) I always knew it as "graverobbing." Vik used it in Lazarus when she was banned. UDL was prepared to use it against Lux.

I have no idea if the Lazarus defender command(s) knew about it, but I presume so. It was always fairly well known, I thought?
Last edited by Unibot III on Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:30 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Roavin
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Roavin » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:48 am

Unibot III wrote:I have no idea if the Lazarus defender command(s) knew about it, but I presume so. It was always fairly well known, I thought?


Aware, but not utilized, because:

Vojislav wrote:If you CTE, your influence will be lost in every region except the one you CTE'd in.


Ballotonia wrote:
Frisbeeteria wrote:I'm not sure whether this is true or not.


Yes, this is true. On top of the items Sedgistan quoted above. Note this also means at time of CTE a nation loses all trophies in regions other than the one it CTEs in.

The reason for this rule is that we don't want nations who were banned from a region to use CTE + removal from the banlist as a means to get back into said region where it may be difficult to ban them again if a high cost was paid to ban them in the first place. Note it is perfectly ok to use this rule strategically: ejecting an opponent who is about to CTE, who thus CTE's in TRR (or pretending to be close to CTE, just so your opponent wastes influence in an attempt to remove your own influence... the knife cuts both ways).

Ballotonia


The interest in having Harmoneia's nation in region was for the influence. It would have been lost since it would have CTE'd in, say, TRR.
Last edited by Roavin on Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Killer Kitty
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Founded: Oct 08, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Killer Kitty » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:26 pm

I still kinda want a [Violet] ruling as to whether this is a game feature specific to only three regions or if this is an admin/coding oversight that is due to either a lack of willingness to fix the exploit or a lack of knowledge to fix it without potentially breaking the game or maybe even some other motivation.

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Eluvatar
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Eluvatar » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:37 pm

[violet] wrote:
Todd McCloud wrote:Just curious here, but what would happen if a nation was banned from all three sinkers, CTE'd, then was re-founded?

It would be randomly placed in one of the three sinkers, regardless of its ban status. Its name would remain on the ban lists, even though it would be resident in one of them. It could be ejected and re-banned from that region as normal, in which case it would wind up in The Rejected Realms.
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Cormactopia Prime
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:45 pm

Eluvatar wrote:
[violet] wrote:It would be randomly placed in one of the three sinkers, regardless of its ban status. Its name would remain on the ban lists, even though it would be resident in one of them. It could be ejected and re-banned from that region as normal, in which case it would wind up in The Rejected Realms.

I was fairly sure Ballotonia did something to address this though. I'm not sure if the fix consisted of preventing the nation from refounding in the region where it was banned, or ensuring its influence in the Sinker it was banned was wiped, but it was something. I don't have any idea how I would find that post now though and it's possible I'm not recalling it right.

Regardless, it would be nice to get it fixed, since it is a security disadvantage that applies only to Sinkers, which is unfair.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Roavin
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Postby Roavin » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:52 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Eluvatar wrote:

I was fairly sure Ballotonia did something to address this though. I'm not sure if the fix consisted of preventing the nation from refounding in the region where it was banned, or ensuring its influence in the Sinker it was banned was wiped, but it was something. I don't have any idea how I would find that post now though and it's possible I'm not recalling it right.

Regardless, it would be nice to get it fixed, since it is a security disadvantage that applies only to Sinkers, which is unfair.


I quoted Ballo above - if a nation banned from a sinker CTEs and is refounded in that sinker, it won't have the influence anymore since any influence in regions other than where the nation CTE'd is wiped at that moment.
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Cormactopia Prime
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:54 pm

Roavin wrote:
Cormactopia Prime wrote:I was fairly sure Ballotonia did something to address this though. I'm not sure if the fix consisted of preventing the nation from refounding in the region where it was banned, or ensuring its influence in the Sinker it was banned was wiped, but it was something. I don't have any idea how I would find that post now though and it's possible I'm not recalling it right.

Regardless, it would be nice to get it fixed, since it is a security disadvantage that applies only to Sinkers, which is unfair.


I quoted Ballo above - if a nation banned from a sinker CTEs and is refounded in that sinker, it won't have the influence anymore since any influence in regions other than where the nation CTE'd is wiped at that moment.

Ugh, sorry, I skimmed looking for the admin response and didn't see yours. I should read the whole thread. Apologies to all.
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The Great Land of Aquarius
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Founded: Aug 14, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Great Land of Aquarius » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:42 pm

Bedetopia wrote:Nations who somehow get banned from all three sinkers and refound should be forced to refound in The Rejected Realms. Or alternatively refound then the game immediately banjects.

Should be.

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Luna Amore
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Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:03 pm

Don't gravedig old threads.


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