[DRAFT] [CONTEST] Holy Cheese? Or Cheese With Holes?

by **The Daystar Isles** » Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:48 pm

Pretty new to NationStates, but I enjoy answering Issues and when I saw the Contest I felt inspired to take a crack at writing my own. I looked through the spoiler list and I couldn't find anything that seemed similar, but someone let me know if this has been done before.

Background: This was inspired by an article I saw somewhere about the declining and aging populations of Trappist monasteries. Trappists are known for brewing a style of beer that is unique to individual monasteries and made in extremely limited quantities. Trappist ales are renowned for their quality and prized for their rarity. Declining monastic populations threaten that ancient brewing tradition, and beers which are already extremely rare could go entirely extinct. I thought I could modify this into an Issue, changing the item in question from beer to cheese to be more "G-rated."

Current Draft
I made some significant changes, but the structure is there and I think it's very nearly ready this time. The new title I'm very happy with, but except for 1 I think all the fallouts could be better/funnier. I'll have to submit "as-is" if I run out of time though.

Title: "Our Feta Which Art in Havarti..."

Description:
An ancient monastery in a remote part of @@NAME@@ is home to the Holy Order of St. Ilton. The monks of this Order are the only makers of Iltonian cheese, a unique variety beloved by many of your fellow @@DEMONYM_PLURAL_NOUN@@. However, with most of the monks getting on in years and very few novices entering the monastery, the Order is at risk of disappearing, and Iltonian cheese along with it.

Issue Validity:
Nation must allow religion. Nation must not have mandatory vegan diets. Nation must have a fixed, land-based location (i.e. not located underwater or in space).

Choice 1:
"Please respect our ancient beliefs," asks Father @@RANDOM_MALE_NAME_1@@, the indescribably elderly Abbott of the Holy Order of St. Ilton (via handwritten letter to avoid breaking his personal vow of silence). "The @@DEMONYM_ADJECTIVE@@ obsession with Iltonian cheese verges on most appalling idolatry. The brethren of the Order make and sell cheese only to provide for the upkeep of the monastery and other small financial necessities. We repudiate filthy lucre and all worldly fame. If God wills that our Order and traditional cheesemaking techniques die out, then let His will be done."

Choice 1 Validity: All
Fallout: cheese lovers in @@NAME@@ have a case of the bleus

Choice 2:
"This particular Abbot is an extreme conservative," explains @RANDOMNAME_2@@, chair of the Religion Department at @@RANDOM_LAST_NAME_3@@ College and a leading expert on the Holy Order of St. Ilton. "Only a few of the monks fully agree with him. If you declared Iltonian cheese to be a @@DEMONYM_ADJECTIVE@@ cultural treasure and granted the Order a permanent financial stipend, I'm confident a majority of the monks would be in favor of teaching non-members their techniques and allowing the production of Iltonian cheese outside the monastery."

Choice 2 Validity: All
Fallout: the once-obscure Feast Day of St. Ilton becomes the secular holiday of Cheesemas

Choice 3:
"Our top food scientists have been working on this problem for years! We could get Iltonian-Style Processed Cheese Product onto store shelves in less than six months," boasts @@RANDOMNAME_4@@, Director of Innovation at processed food conglomerate Frakt Zhein, makers of 'CHEEZ! In a Spray Can!(TM)'. "But we'll need the government to relax a few of their more draconian food safety regulations first," @@HE@@ adds. "You wouldn't believe all the additives we have to use in this stuff to get the flavor and texture right."

Choice 3 Validity: Nation must be capitalist.
Fallout: corporations stop printing ingredient lists on food packages. "We're not worried about what's in it, why should you be?"

Choice 4:
"Don't ask why the monks aren't making more cheese, ask why this country isn't making more monks!" writes prominent conservative cleric @@RANDOM_MALE_NAME_5@@ in a guest editorial for a leading right-wing newsmagazine. "The average @@DEMONYM_ADJECTIVE@@ young man is lazy, undisciplined, and directionless; a strict monastic life of fasting and prayer is the antidote to all of that! I call on our @@LEADER@@ and government to encourage more young men to enter monasteries! I do appreciate a nice wedge of Iltonian cheese, but the true benefit will be a more virtuous and morally upright society."

Choice 4 Validity: All
Fallout: popular youth apparel brands add monk's habits to their product lines

Second Draft

First Draft

I welcome the feedback of experienced Issues writers!

by **Verdant Haven** » Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:22 pm

Hello and welcome to Got Issues! Great to see another person dipping their toes in the issue drafting waters for the first time! While there are obviously plenty of things to tweak and adjust (which is the entire point of drafting!), I think you've got a good grip on many of the basics of what goes into a draft and have a reasonable foundation for an issue submission here.

As a fan of both Trappist ale and of cheese, I heartily approve of the topic :-P

Re: your questions/concerns:

1 - I don't personally recognize this as a topic that has been covered.

2 - I think it's a very good idea. Some of the options will need to have some extra importance or weight added to make this really feel worthy of national attention, but that can be done.

3 – Close enough on the macros for now, I'd say. If an issue makes it to editing, we usually end up needing to adjust the random name macros in particular to fit the format required for the coding, so the first and most important element with those is that it is clear what is desired. I think the only thing I'm seeing is that the numbering on names should be sequential without regard for gendering – only one name gets each number, regardless of other specific elements of them.

4 – For choice 3, I think the biggest challenge is wordiness. There are tweaks that can be made to the intent of it, but I think you are on a reasonable path for how the speaker could argue that position. If you're able to chop its length by 10-20% and focus on just the most important parts of who this is and what they're asking, I think that will help it feel stronger. You also might look at shortening the description of the speaker – it's a bit odd for somebody giving a televised sermon about the virtues of monastic vows of silence. In this case, their strength is in their argument rather than their particular religious affiliation.

5 – Your instinct regarding choice 4 is solid – that option probably isn't necessary. This is an issue for nations where religion is playing at least one prominent cultural role, so allowing it to stand with the three choices that are really focused on the question of the cheese rather than undermining the player's religious choices up to this point is likely sufficient. Nothing in the issue text is about religion itself being a problem, and two of the options already are about letting the traditions die out one way or another, so you're good there.

In terms of general feedback:

- Specificity is good (it helps make an issue feel real). Unnecessary specificity isn't (it limits applicability or believability for players). For example, naming the cheese like that is great – it feels like a real thing. On the other hand, I wouldn't necessarily give specific ages, preferring words like "elderly" or "young" that don't imply a number that is otherwise unneeded (NS nations have average lifespans ranging from 14 to more than 111)

- For choice two, an export ban probably isn't ideal for something that is introduced as being a powerhouse economic tool across a whole region. Limiting production to just being domestic is reasonable though.

- Though I don't have any good suggestions at this moment, there may be a "sharp" pun to be found in the fallout for choice 1

- Periods aren't needed on the effect lines.

Good effort here – keep it up!

by **Bears Armed** » Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:50 pm

A novel idea... and a "tasty" one.

by **Honeydewistania** » Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:02 pm

You should make it "the Holy Order of St. Ilton"

by **Australian rePublic** » Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:26 am

This needs a "Big Cheese" pun

by **The Daystar Isles** » Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:44 pm

Honeydewistania wrote:You should make it "the Holy Order of St. Ilton"

This is brilliant :lol:

I’m reluctant to use someone else’s joke in a Contest submission without express permission, would you be OK with me using this line?

by **Australian rePublic** » Fri Jun 17, 2022 7:19 pm

The Daystar Isles wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:You should make it "the Holy Order of St. Ilton"

This is brilliant

I’m reluctant to use someone else’s joke in a Contest submission without express permission, would you be OK with me using this line?

I can't speak for Honeydew, but if I weren't okay with it, I wouldn't have posted it, knowing it was a contest issue

by **Tinhampton** » Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:56 am

I prefer your alternative title to your current one.

Your description is too long. Surely you can convey "this special cheese is made by a group of aging monks who are very rapidly dying off" in fewer words than you have.

Your Option 3 is contingent on the receiving nation not having banned "TV [or] televised religious services." This is probably because you convey the religious leader's message through means of a "televised weekly sermon." Surely there are other,... more accessible means @@HE@@ could have spoken through.

I'm with Verdant Haven regarding Option 4.

by **Honeydewistania** » Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:59 am

The Daystar Isles wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:You should make it "the Holy Order of St. Ilton"

This is brilliant

I’m reluctant to use someone else’s joke in a Contest submission without express permission, would you be OK with me using this line?

Aussie is right - of course it’s okay, otherwise I wouldn’t have suggested it lol.

by **The Daystar Isles** » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:16 pm

I greatly appreciate all of the suggestions! Please have a look at Draft #2! I'd say I'm quite pleased with it, but I'm sure there's more that could be done to improve it. (UPDATE: Sorry for all the micro-edits, I keep seeing more tiny changes I want to make to the wording!)

Title:
"The Secret Ingredient is Holiness" (although I'd love to come up with something better)

Description:
An ancient stone monastery in a remote part of @@NAME@@ is home to the Holy Order of St. Ilton. The monks of this Order are the only makers of Iltonian cheese, a unique variety beloved by you and many of your fellow @@DEMONYM_PLURAL_NOUN@@. However, with most of the monks getting on in years and very few novices entering the monastery, the Order is at risk of extinction, and Iltonian cheese along with it.

Issue Validity:
Nation must allow religion. Nation must not have mandatory vegan diets. Nation must have a fixed, land-based location (i.e. not located underwater or in space).

Choice 1:
"Please respect our ancient beliefs," asks Father @@RANDOM_MALE_NAME_1@@, the indescribably elderly Abbott of the Holy Order of St. Ilton (via handwritten letter to avoid breaking his vow of silence). "The @@DEMONYM_ADJECTIVE@@ obsession with Iltonian cheese verges on the most appalling idolatry. The brethren of the Order only make and sell cheese to provide for the upkeep of the monastery and other small financial necessities. We repudiate filthy lucre and all worldly fame. If God wills that our Order and its cheesemaking secrets must die out, then let His will be yea and amen. Perhaps the inevitable disappearance of our cheese is a divine punishment being visited upon @@DEMONYM_PLURAL@@ for their unseemly veneration of a humble dairy product and the deadly sin of gluttony."

Choice 1 Validity: All
Fallout: cheese lovers in @@NAME@@ have a case of the blues

Choice 2:
"This particular Abbot is an extreme conservative," explains @RANDOMNAME_2@@, chair of the Religion Department at @@RANDOM_LAST_NAME_3@@ College and a leading expert on the Holy Order of St. Ilton. "Most of the monks are much more reasonable. If you declared Iltonian cheese to be a @@DEMONYM_ADJECTIVE@@ national culinary treasure, permanently banned its production outside the country, and legislated that the Order would receive a portion of all revenue from sales of the cheese in perpetuity, I'm certain that a majority of the brethren would vote to allow production of Iltonian cheese outside the monastery, even by the non-devout. The Abbot and a few of the oldest monks will think it's sacrilegious, but they'll all be dead in a few years anyway."

Choice 2 Validity: All
Fallout: fondue sets are becoming hot commodities

Choice 3:
"We've had the best food scientists in @@REGION@@ working on this problem for years," says @@RANDOMNAME_4@@, Director of Innovation at international processed food conglomerate Frakt Zhein, makers of 'CHEEZ! In a Spray Can!(TM).' "We could have packages of Iltonian-style Processed Cheese* Food* on store shelves in less than a year." Somehow the asterisks are audible. "But we'll need the government to relax a few of the more draconian food safety regulations first," @@HE@@ adds. "You wouldn't believe all the additives we have to use in this stuff to get the flavor and texture right."

Choice 3 Validity: All
Fallout: breakfast cereal and infant formula in @@NAME@@ are fortified with nutritious asbestos

Choice 4:
"Don't ask why the monks aren't making more cheese, ask why we aren't making more monks!" writes prominent conservative cleric @@RANDOM_MALE_NAME_5@@ in a guest editorial for a leading right-wing newsmagazine. "The average @@DEMONYM_ADJECTIVE@@ young man is lazy, undisciplined, and directionless; a strict monastic life is the antidote to all of that. Crime rates would plummet practically overnight if our nation's disaffected youth were taught to seek fulfillment through fasting and prayer instead of drug use, vandalism, and petty theft! I call on our @@LEADER@@ and government to encourage more young men to enter monasteries! We need to fund public service announcements about the virtues of a secluded religious life, and all school career guidance programs should be required to include a discussion of monastic vows. I appreciate a nice wedge of Iltonian cheese as much as the next fellow, but at the end of the day this isn't about cheese, it's about creating a more virtuous and morally upright society. And shouldn't that be the primary goal of any national government?"

Choice 4 Validity: All
Fallout: popular youth apparel brands are adding monk's habits to their product lines

by **Verdant Haven** » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:39 pm

Glad to see another draft! I would suggest editing your original post to have this, with the previous draft placed in spoilers below it – that way people checking out your thread always can see the current version without having to hunt around.

- Great new description. The only feedback I have for that is that we can't tell the player that they (ie Leader) loves this cheese – that's a player autonomy issue. It is sufficient to say that it is widely beloved amongst your fellow citizens.

- Choice 1 is long… but honestly I really like it. All parts feel like they contribute and are necessary. Good work.

- In effect 1 you could get bonus pun credit with a respelling to "a case of the bleus" :-D

- Choice 2 is also long, but it feels fairly concise for what it's getting across. There might be a couple words that could be removed, but I wouldn't sweat it.

- The new choice 3 is a good idea. I would suggest that this one requires both Capitalism and Non-Autarky validities, but that's easy enough (or drop the word "International" and you don't need to worry about Autarkies any more). The content is good, I would just rearrange it a bit to have only one condensed dialogue tag. Perhaps "We've had the best food scientists in @@NAME@@ working on this problem for years. We can have packages of Iltonian-style Processed Cheese* Food* on store shelves in less than a year," says @@RANDOMNAME_4@@, Director of Innovation at international processed food conglomerate Frakt Zhein, somehow managing to speak in asterisks.

- Effect 3 is a bit weaker than the others… I don't have a specific suggestion, but perhaps it might be better to leave the question of what the contaminants are to the imagination?

- Choice 4 is the longest one, and I think here is where I would actually suggest pulling out the scissors a bit. I would probably cut it off after "…a discussion of monastic vows." After all, this issue definitely is about the cheese! :-D :-D

by **Bears Armed** » Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:12 pm

The Daystar Isles wrote:I greatly appreciate all of the suggestions! Please have a look at Draft #2! I'd say I'm quite pleased with it, but I'm sure there's more that could be done to improve it. (UPDATE: Sorry for all the micro-edits, I keep seeing more tiny changes I want to make to the wording!)

Title:
"The Secret Ingredient is Holiness" (although I'd love to come up with something better)

Perhaps "Holy Wholly Holey", or some alternative arrangement of those three words?

by **The Daystar Isles** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:40 am

Bears Armed wrote:
The Daystar Isles wrote:I greatly appreciate all of the suggestions! Please have a look at Draft #2! I'd say I'm quite pleased with it, but I'm sure there's more that could be done to improve it. (UPDATE: Sorry for all the micro-edits, I keep seeing more tiny changes I want to make to the wording!)

Title:
"The Secret Ingredient is Holiness" (although I'd love to come up with something better)

Perhaps "Holy Wholly Holey", or some alternative arrangement of those three words?

I appreciate that inspiration! It indirectly led me to "Our Feta Which Art in Havarti..." and I think that's good enough to roll with

by **Verdant Haven** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:43 pm

Just some minor feedback remaining!

- For the validity, while obviously people can RP whatever they want, for Issue purposes all nations can be assumed to have a fixed location on land

- Just because of our inability to make assumptions about the accepted deity or deities within a given nation, I would suggest having the first speaker say "if Saint Ilton wills that our…" instead of "If God will that our…."

- In the effect lines for Choices 2, 3, and 4, watch the tense and format being used. These should be formed as statements about what has happened, and phrased to appear in comma-separated lists. For example, "the once-obscure Feast Day of St. Ilton is now better known as Cheesemas"

by **Umbratellus** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:47 pm

Verdant Haven wrote:- For the validity, while obviously people can RP whatever they want, for Issue purposes all nations can be assumed to have a fixed location on land

...and besides, there's no reason a space nation can't be proud of its cheese industries. : p Moon cheese is a classic after all.

by **Aegeonia** » Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:53 pm

I like this issue idea!

by **The Daystar Isles** » Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:30 am

Verdant Haven wrote:
- Just because of our inability to make assumptions about the accepted deity or deities within a given nation, I would suggest having the first speaker say "if Saint Ilton wills that our…" instead of "If God will that our…."

Would "if it is (the) divine will" be non-specific enough to work?

I'll address the formatting of the fallout items and get it submitted in time for the contest!

Really appreciate everyone's help!

by **Verdant Haven** » Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:17 pm

The Daystar Isles wrote:Would "if it is (the) divine will" be non-specific enough to work?

Absolutely

by **West Barack and East Obama** » Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:46 pm

This is looking really good imo. I think effect line 3 could be tweaked to read 'corporations' stance on ingredient lists are "we're no worried about what's in it, why should you be?"

[DRAFT] [CONTEST] Holy Cheese? Or Cheese With Holes?

[DRAFT] [CONTEST] Holy Cheese? Or Cheese With Holes?

Draft 2

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