NationStates

Posted: **Sat May 21, 2022 2:16 pm**

Title: I Don't Understand Nothing

Description: A source of heated debate and controversy among lingiusts over many years has been the use of double negatives in traditional @@DEMONYM@@ vernacular, possibly as the use of double negatives in @@DEMONYM@@ language is based on the use of the same by oft-persecuted Bigtopian immigrants. This debate has culminated after the recent release of a hit single by @@DEMONYM@@ band The Rocking Rocks that featured a double negative in its title and repeatedly featured the same in its lyrics, which has influenced @@DEMONYM@@ youth into relentless use of double negatives, much to the annoyance of parents and @@DEMONYM@@ language teachers. This has caused angry @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ to come into your office demanding that something be done to ensure accuracy in @@DEMONYM@@ language.

First Option: 'The release of a song featuring such imperfect and inexact language ought to be considered an outrage!', exclaims world-renowned @@DEMONYM@@ linguist and self-proclaimed pedant @@RANDOMNAME_1@@. @@HE@@ adds: 'In what manner could a @@DEMONYM@@ of intelligence be cognisant of the meaning of @@DEMONYM@@ vernacular if it contains, in such extreme quantities, such incorrect and inexact language? @@LEADER@@, you must require mandatory @@DEMONYM@@ language courses to occur in all @@DEMONYM@@ schools that teach proper and exact language. This would be among the few manners in which such imprecise language in @@DEMONYM@@ language can be substantially reduced within @@NAME@@!'

Effect Line: students routinely fail chemistry tests merely for using the term 'conical flask'

Second Option: '@@HE@@'s serious?' questions @@RANDOMNAME_2@@, lead singer of The Rocking Rocks who wrote the hit in question, while helping @@HIM@@self to a cup of tea in your desk clearly reserved for you. '@@RANDOMNAME_1@@ doesn't know nothing about @@DEMONYM@@ history and culture. Look, @@LEADER@@, @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ language's based on the hard work of generations of @@DEMONYM@@, and it would be a disgrace for ya to throw away our history and culture! Instead, I think ya should fund and support the arts to value our national history and culture, even if that means some pedants pretend they ain't understanding nothing.'

Effect Lines: words of the @@DEMONYM@@ language have literally lost any meaning

Third Option: @@RANDOMNAME_3@@, a prominent right-wing opponent of free speech and xenophobe, enters your office without any permission or warning. '@@RANDOMNAME_1@@ is right in that you ought to stop this disgrace upon @@DEMONYM@@ language, but you need to take even stronger measures! Not only do double negatives make it impossible to understand what people are talking about, but they are infecting our proud nation's culture with vile Bigtopianness! Anyone caught using double negatives or other imprecise language for that matter ought to be summarily executed. And yes, @@LEADER@@, that includes The Rocking Rocks. Oh, and while you're at it, you may as well execute those who speak against the glorious @@PRETITLE@@. Make @@NAME@@ great again!'

Effect Line: speaking @@DEMONYM@@ language is a capital offence

Posted: **Mon May 23, 2022 7:56 pm**

Draft 2

Draft 1

Title: I Don't Understand Nothing

Validity: Must have prisons

Description: Traditional @@DEMONYM@@ parlance features double negatives. After the recent release of a hit single by @@DEMONYM@@ band ????? that featured a double negative in its title and repeatedly featured the same in its lyrics, angry @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ have come to your office that something be done to ensure legal accuracy in @@DEMONYM@@ parlance.

First Option: 'The release of a song featuring such imperfect and inexact language ought to be considered an outrage!', exclaims self-proclaimed pedant @@RANDOMNAME_1@@. @@HE@@ adds: 'In what manner could a @@DEMONYM@@ of prudence be cognisant of the meaning of @@DEMONYM@@ parlance if it contains, in such extreme quantities, such incorrect and inexact language? @@LEADER@@, you must require mandatory @@DEMONYM@@ language courses to occur in all @@DEMONYM@@ schools that teach proper and exact language. This would be among the few manners in which such imprecise language in @@DEMONYM@@ language can be substantially reduced within @@NAME@@!'

Effect Line: students routinely fail chemistry tests merely for using the term 'conical flask'

Second Option*: '@@HE@@'s seriously?' questions @@RANDOMNAME_2@@, lead singer of ????? who wrote the hit in question, while helping @@HIM@@self to a cup of tea in your desk clearly reserved for you. '@@RANDOMNAME_1@@ doesn't know nothing about @@NAME@@ history and culture. Look, @@LEADER@@, our history, uh... well... um... oh yeah, our history. @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ language is based up on the, in @@RANDOMNAME_1@@'s words, prudence, of generations of @@DEMONYM@@, and the history of @@NAME@@. It would be a disgrace up on @@NAME@@ history for these pedants and 'Naturally Intelligent Individuals' to get you to throw away our nation history and culture!'

Effect Lines: words of the @@DEMONYM@@ language have literally lost any meaning

Third Option: @@RANDOMNAME_3@@, a prominent right-wing opponent of free speech, enters your office without any permission or warning. '@@RANDOMNAME_1@@ is right in that you ought to stop this disgrace upon @@DEMONYM@@ language, but you need to go even further! @@NAME@@ needs to prosecute and imprison anyone caught using imprecise language. And yes, @@LEADER@@, that includes ?????. Oh, and while you're at it, you may as well prosecute opponents of the glorious @@PRETITLE@@. Make @@NAME@@ great again!'

Effect Line: citizens are routinely imprisoned for speaking @@DEMONYM@@ language

*Grammatical errors in the second option's dialogue are intentional.

Posted: **Tue May 31, 2022 3:26 pm**

Bump number 2

Posted: **Tue May 31, 2022 3:35 pm**

Only one of the answers is prison-dependent. Why not just have that answer require prisons as a validity, and have an alternative answer used for nations without a prison system.

possible variant for no-prison nations:

@@RANDOMNAME_3@@, a prominent right-wing opponent of free speech, enters your office without any permission or warning. '@@RANDOMNAME_1@@ is right in that you ought to stop this disgrace upon @@DEMONYM@@ language, but you need to go even further! @@NAME@@ needs to prosecute and punish anyone caught using imprecise language. And yes, @@LEADER@@, that includes ?????. Oh, and while you're at it, you may as well prosecute opponents of the glorious @@PRETITLE@@. Make @@NAME@@ great again!'

Effect Line: citizens are routinely arrested for speaking @@DEMONYM@@ language
Option Validity: No prisons

Posted: **Tue May 31, 2022 4:01 pm**

This looks like an NS issue, but the topic isn't believable to me. It doesn't seem likely that someone utilizing a double negative and other "imprecise language" would trigger a national debate all on its own.

Good topics are often (but not always) situations that real nations might reasonably encounter and address at the national level.

Do keep writing. Your technical skill is apparent and it will serve you well here.

Posted: **Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:49 pm**

Candensia wrote:This looks like an NS issue, but the topic isn't believable to me. It doesn't seem likely that someone utilizing a double negative and other "imprecise language" would trigger a national debate all on its own.

Good topics are often (but not always) situations that real nations might reasonably encounter and address at the national level.

Do keep writing. Your technical skill is apparent and it will serve you well here.

It's not really meant to be that that one incident led to this debate; I've changed the premise so that it's clear that the debate has been ongoing for a while.

Posted: **Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:03 pm**

There's potential here, but I think the issue will need a bit of focusing and development to get to where it needs to be.

- Starting with the most minor suggestion, I would recommend using "Vernacular" instead of "Parlance" due to the particular implications of those terms. I only put this first because that's the term I'll be using in discussion below.

- For the premise, if the double negative is a traditional feature in the vernacular form of a nation's language, why is it enraging that nation's citizens? Most examples I can think of where this kind of fight is had include some element of race, social class, or foreign origin that the pearl-clutchers are trying to fight against by claiming it's about proper language. I would try to emphasize some reason why this particular form of vernacular is "other," and thus why it's causing a stir. Perhaps it's the vernacular of an extremely isolated backwoods area, or is used by a particular immigrant population, or is indicative of an oppressed social class - something that separates it from the language of the controlling majority. Currently it feels like it reads as "Your nation's citizens are angry because people use your nation's language."

- A song release is a reasonable way to introduce the problem, but I'd step it up. This probably isn't the first successful song to include this particular vernacular, so rather than just calling it a hit, perhaps add some weight to it by talking about how it is dominating youth culture and now all the kids are talking in that manner, or something similar. Make it something the plaintiffs can't ignore.

- The first speaker sounds like they are trying to protect the vernacular language... by changing the vernacular language. I would probably (as above) have them a bit more worried about protecting the mainstream form from influence by the vernacular, rather than changing the vernacular itself.

- Speaker two doesn't seem to be asking for anything other than to ignore the complaints, which is the Dismiss button. Have them making a request of some kind. As the representative of the vernacular in question, perhaps they want money for schools to preserve their language, or official recognition as a second language, or something like that. I would also avoid playing them off as dumb (not being able to word their argument about history, for example) - they use different language, but can be just as intelligent as anyone else.

- Speaker three brings the crazy, which is fine, but it gets a little vague with the concept of just "punish" - are we talking fines? Prison? Torture and execution? It also goes off the rails a bit when it becomes just "punish all opponents of the nation" without getting in to who or what that's supposed to mean. We definitely like subverting expectations a bit, but the player should be given a fairly good idea of what the option is asking to do before they're asked to select it.

Posted: **Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:29 am**

Verdant Haven wrote:There's potential here, but I think the issue will need a bit of focusing and development to get to where it needs to be.

Thanks for the feedback!

Verdant Haven wrote:- The first speaker sounds like they are trying to protect the vernacular language... by changing the vernacular language. I would probably (as above) have them a bit more worried about protecting the mainstream form from influence by the vernacular, rather than changing the vernacular itself.

To be honest, the first option is definitely meant to be a bona fide concern about double negatives being incorrect, imprecise, etc. However, I have no problem doing this to the third option.

The rest is done

Posted: **Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:17 pm**

/bump

Posted: **Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:22 pm**

Ah… double negatives. Very interesting issue idea, good job on the writing, too. You can't not love this idea.

Posted: **Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:08 pm**

/bump

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:57 am**

Why is this a leader issue now? Why would a dialect allow double negatives but not have any other unique features?

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:09 am**

imo this is a non-starter. You can't mandate the properties of a nation's language. Many languages (in fact the majority) do not have double negatives (i.e. negative concord).

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:20 am**

Electrum wrote:imo this is a non-starter. You can't mandate the properties of a nation's language. Many languages (in fact the majority) do not have double negatives (i.e. negative concord).

Most major languages actually have a department for mandating the properties of the nation's language. English is an exception here, with the Oxford Dictionary serving as the unoffical authority in its place. This department would mandate these things rather than leader. However, considering that we have an issue about Oxford commas, I don't see why this wouldn't work as an issue. The problem conveyed in the Oxford comma issue, however, is that they're written into legal documents, and interpretation of legal documentation is a government issue. Maybe this would work if there were legal documents written in the local dialect with double negatives. But if that were the case, however, then it would be understood that those documents were written in that dialect and should thus be interpreted according to it

NationStates

[Draft] I Don't Understand Nothing

[Draft] I Don't Understand Nothing