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Black Market Hackery - Please Save My Other Nation

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Steelfeather Rapture 1
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Posts: 36
Founded: Aug 18, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Black Market Hackery - Please Save My Other Nation

Postby Steelfeather Rapture 1 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:49 am

So I've been playing Steelfeather Rapture 2 very consistently against the black market. VERY consistently. I haven't actually messed it up yet in-the-moment as all of my issue choices have been against the black market. You wouldn't however be able to tell by looking at the black market graph, which keeps getting amended to show HUGE increases.

Steelfeather Rapture 2 is here:
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=ste ... _rapture_2

Before:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SPC0pJ ... sp=sharing

After:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FKVdek ... sp=sharing

This one is super-significant, because that day (where the integrity surged) was also a day where political freedoms increased. IE, it was a day where the people's political freedoms were against smuggling, and yet smuggling was later amended to have surged. The day before it had likewise been a day in which people were disincluding smugglers, and yet smuggling increased a little nevertheless.

My original intention with Steelfeather Rapture 2 was actually to create a nation with a huge initial black market (5.6% in fact) which would then show a dramatic decline over time, so much so that even though population growth increases the black market graph as well, it would still show an overall downwards trend of black market activity. Even for a day! Yet it doesn't seem to be possible, and I feel like hackery moments like this are a totally artificial beyond-the-rules way to make it impossible. Please fix this.
Please telegram me if you want me to be active in a thread... I'm shy, and the telegrams scare me less than the forum itself.

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Kors
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Posts: 266
Founded: Dec 02, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kors » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:28 pm

Reduction of economic freedom without law enforcement causes black market to rise. So does corruption.
Hello. I'm Kors. Welcome to my sig.It's a normal sig, a completely ordinary sig, an indifferent sig. You won't find anything different in this sig. MY LEADER AND MILITARY ARE IN MY OVERVIEW FACTBOOK!!!!!!!!!
Gender: It/that
news
Planned obsolescence banned in Kors : Several unknown satellites crash land into highest mountain in Iceland : Korsian welfare programs cut spending by 50% : Terrorist attacks on the Korsian governmental building result in the enaction of the emergency measures act : Carbon monoxide threat in southern Kors due to wildfires : Giant potato rolls off and chases farmer off mountain into the city, crushing and mortally injuring 3

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Steelfeather Rapture 1
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Founded: Aug 18, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Steelfeather Rapture 1 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:38 pm

Kors wrote:Reduction of economic freedom without law enforcement causes black market to rise. So does corruption.


The nation in question has never yet reduced economic freedom nor has it increased corruption. Every issue response it has used so far has reduced the black market or done nothing to the black market. One of its integrity+up moments did nothing to the black market. That was this one: "Elections have become procedural nightmares due to voters persistently rejecting candidates." However, that same day, this was played to reduce the black market: "Teenagers are told they're not thinking about sex enough."
Last edited by Steelfeather Rapture 1 on Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please telegram me if you want me to be active in a thread... I'm shy, and the telegrams scare me less than the forum itself.

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Kors
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Founded: Dec 02, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kors » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:51 pm

Steelfeather Rapture 1 wrote:
Kors wrote:Reduction of economic freedom without law enforcement causes black market to rise. So does corruption.


The nation in question has never yet reduced economic freedom nor has it increased corruption. Every issue response it has used so far has reduced the black market or done nothing to the black market. One of its integrity+up moments did nothing to the black market. That was this one: "Elections have become procedural nightmares due to voters persistently rejecting candidates." However, that same day, this was played to reduce the black market: "Teenagers are told they're not thinking about sex enough."

Inclusiveness, civil rights, niceness, compassion and taxation increase black market. It's a really weird stat that I am still trying to understand right now. From what I can tell, you do not have enough law enforcement to keep up with the black market.
Hello. I'm Kors. Welcome to my sig.It's a normal sig, a completely ordinary sig, an indifferent sig. You won't find anything different in this sig. MY LEADER AND MILITARY ARE IN MY OVERVIEW FACTBOOK!!!!!!!!!
Gender: It/that
news
Planned obsolescence banned in Kors : Several unknown satellites crash land into highest mountain in Iceland : Korsian welfare programs cut spending by 50% : Terrorist attacks on the Korsian governmental building result in the enaction of the emergency measures act : Carbon monoxide threat in southern Kors due to wildfires : Giant potato rolls off and chases farmer off mountain into the city, crushing and mortally injuring 3

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Steelfeather Rapture 1
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Founded: Aug 18, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Steelfeather Rapture 1 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:28 pm

Kors wrote:
Steelfeather Rapture 1 wrote:
The nation in question has never yet reduced economic freedom nor has it increased corruption. Every issue response it has used so far has reduced the black market or done nothing to the black market. One of its integrity+up moments did nothing to the black market. That was this one: "Elections have become procedural nightmares due to voters persistently rejecting candidates." However, that same day, this was played to reduce the black market: "Teenagers are told they're not thinking about sex enough."

Inclusiveness, civil rights, niceness, compassion and taxation increase black market. It's a really weird stat that I am still trying to understand right now. From what I can tell, you do not have enough law enforcement to keep up with the black market.


Thank you for your engagement. Spending on the education system in that nation has had a nice black market reduction effect just now (9.9 billion became 8.8 billion). However, let's see if the black market reduction will actually stay overnight for tomorrow.
Please telegram me if you want me to be active in a thread... I'm shy, and the telegrams scare me less than the forum itself.

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Kors
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Founded: Dec 02, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kors » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:12 pm

Steelfeather Rapture 1 wrote:
Kors wrote:Inclusiveness, civil rights, niceness, compassion and taxation increase black market. It's a really weird stat that I am still trying to understand right now. From what I can tell, you do not have enough law enforcement to keep up with the black market.


Thank you for your engagement. Spending on the education system in that nation has had a nice black market reduction effect just now (9.9 billion became 8.8 billion). However, let's see if the black market reduction will actually stay overnight for tomorrow.

Good luck. Remember that the things that reduce crime also reduce black market
Hello. I'm Kors. Welcome to my sig.It's a normal sig, a completely ordinary sig, an indifferent sig. You won't find anything different in this sig. MY LEADER AND MILITARY ARE IN MY OVERVIEW FACTBOOK!!!!!!!!!
Gender: It/that
news
Planned obsolescence banned in Kors : Several unknown satellites crash land into highest mountain in Iceland : Korsian welfare programs cut spending by 50% : Terrorist attacks on the Korsian governmental building result in the enaction of the emergency measures act : Carbon monoxide threat in southern Kors due to wildfires : Giant potato rolls off and chases farmer off mountain into the city, crushing and mortally injuring 3

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Steelfeather Rapture 1
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Posts: 36
Founded: Aug 18, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Steelfeather Rapture 1 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:48 pm

Kors wrote:
Steelfeather Rapture 1 wrote:Thank you for your engagement. Spending on the education system in that nation has had a nice black market reduction effect just now (9.9 billion became 8.8 billion). However, let's see if the black market reduction will actually stay overnight for tomorrow.

Good luck. Remember that the things that reduce crime also reduce black market


UPDATE! I've got an update. I've watched the stats model update itself hideously. Check this out, because it's bad enough I want to file a bug report:

Before:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yig-JT ... sp=sharing

After:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1myWXMf ... sp=sharing

We are SAME DAY, and my black market stat has gone from 8.8 billion to 10.3 billion.

I have played CONSISTENTLY against the black market in Steelfeather Rapture 2, and the game is manipulating the appearances on that.
Last edited by Steelfeather Rapture 1 on Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please telegram me if you want me to be active in a thread... I'm shy, and the telegrams scare me less than the forum itself.

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SherpDaWerp
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Founded: Mar 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby SherpDaWerp » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:36 pm

Black market changes with population; this is a fact you even mention in your OP. Have you considered that you might just not be outpacing population-based increases? Population only increases at update, which would result in this once-a-day "manipulation" you're seeing.

Try looking at your Economy pie chart (https://www.nationstates.net/nation=ste ... il=economy) day by day to see if that changes outside issue answering. Unfortunately, there's no black-market-per-capita stat you can use, so this is the best you've got.

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Kors
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Founded: Dec 02, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kors » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:06 pm

SherpDaWerp wrote:Black market changes with population; this is a fact you even mention in your OP. Have you considered that you might just not be outpacing population-based increases? Population only increases at update, which would result in this once-a-day "manipulation" you're seeing.

Try looking at your Economy pie chart (https://www.nationstates.net/nation=ste ... il=economy) day by day to see if that changes outside issue answering. Unfortunately, there's no black-market-per-capita stat you can use, so this is the best you've got.

They're talking about black market against economic output. When population changes, black market does too, but so does economic output.
Hello. I'm Kors. Welcome to my sig.It's a normal sig, a completely ordinary sig, an indifferent sig. You won't find anything different in this sig. MY LEADER AND MILITARY ARE IN MY OVERVIEW FACTBOOK!!!!!!!!!
Gender: It/that
news
Planned obsolescence banned in Kors : Several unknown satellites crash land into highest mountain in Iceland : Korsian welfare programs cut spending by 50% : Terrorist attacks on the Korsian governmental building result in the enaction of the emergency measures act : Carbon monoxide threat in southern Kors due to wildfires : Giant potato rolls off and chases farmer off mountain into the city, crushing and mortally injuring 3

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SherpDaWerp
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Founded: Mar 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby SherpDaWerp » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:37 pm

Kors wrote:
SherpDaWerp wrote:Black market changes with population; this is a fact you even mention in your OP. Have you considered that you might just not be outpacing population-based increases? Population only increases at update, which would result in this once-a-day "manipulation" you're seeing.

Try looking at your Economy pie chart (https://www.nationstates.net/nation=ste ... il=economy) day by day to see if that changes outside issue answering. Unfortunately, there's no black-market-per-capita stat you can use, so this is the best you've got.

They're talking about black market against economic output. When population changes, black market does too, but so does economic output.

Every screenshot they've posted is purely census 79, aka black market. In fact, your post is the first mention of any comparative scale in this thread. I suggested looking at the pie chart because that actually is a comparative, not looking at the pure black market stat.

By my calculations, at 2 mil population per day (which is the standard growth rate at your current population), you can decrease your black market share by a least a full 0.2% today and still see a net black market increase.

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Kors
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Founded: Dec 02, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kors » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:28 pm

SherpDaWerp wrote:
Kors wrote:They're talking about black market against economic output. When population changes, black market does too, but so does economic output.

Every screenshot they've posted is purely census 79, aka black market. In fact, your post is the first mention of any comparative scale in this thread. I suggested looking at the pie chart because that actually is a comparative, not looking at the pure black market stat.

By my calculations, at 2 mil population per day (which is the standard growth rate at your current population), you can decrease your black market share by a least a full 0.2% today and still see a net black market increase.

I'm using one of my nations as an example, since at some points I wasn't actively answering issues on that nation. On Thursday, March 4th, it had 44.233 trillion economic output and 62 billion black market, giving it approximately 0.14% of the economic output.
On Friday the economic output increased by 334 billion, getting it 44.667 trillion, increasing it by 0.75, and the black market increased by 600 million, giving it 62.6 billion black market, increasing it by 0.97 of it's original black market.
But on Saturday, the economic output increased by 1.58, leading it up to 45.274 billion, while Black market Increased by 1.4%, giving it 63500000000.

It's a weird stat, but it isn't going to increase faster than population or economic output does, unless you answer issues, which I did not do at the time.
Hello. I'm Kors. Welcome to my sig.It's a normal sig, a completely ordinary sig, an indifferent sig. You won't find anything different in this sig. MY LEADER AND MILITARY ARE IN MY OVERVIEW FACTBOOK!!!!!!!!!
Gender: It/that
news
Planned obsolescence banned in Kors : Several unknown satellites crash land into highest mountain in Iceland : Korsian welfare programs cut spending by 50% : Terrorist attacks on the Korsian governmental building result in the enaction of the emergency measures act : Carbon monoxide threat in southern Kors due to wildfires : Giant potato rolls off and chases farmer off mountain into the city, crushing and mortally injuring 3

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Steelfeather Rapture 2
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 4
Founded: Nov 17, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Steelfeather Rapture 2 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:58 am

Hah! I got the Black Market score under its founding level! I did it! Even if it lasts but a day, today I did it!

It started at 6.6 million. It's currently at 5.5 million.

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Steelfeather Rapture 2
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 4
Founded: Nov 17, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Steelfeather Rapture 2 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:43 am

Why does the black market show a weird shape yesterday? I've got it down again today, but I'm confused. Yesterday I caused that huge fall in it, but it got re-dated as though I'd caused it the day before. If you look at my Rudeness graph, it shows the Border Collies Herding Dinosaurs rudeness yesterday (which is correct), but it shows the nadir of the black market the day BEFORE that (which is wrong; it was de-extincting dinosaurs to eat them which caused a huge plunge). That issue result was instead treated as causing a very small increase in the black market, just by the days. I'm confused.

Why does this stat show so much hackery? I'm praying for easy answers here, because I want to peel the black market off of civil rights with creative (or just exhaustive-yet-rights-protecting) police services.

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PhilTech
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Posts: 86
Founded: Sep 29, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby PhilTech » Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:02 am

As a general rule, the more you outlaw stuff, the more likely the black market will thrive. Majority of nations with the largest black markets are dictatorships, of course there are exceptions. Also, based on my experience, if there is at least one catalyst for the black market to shoot up, it is hard to stop. My experience was I banned alcohol back then, and my black market just kept increasing ever since.

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Steelfeather Rapture 2
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 4
Founded: Nov 17, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Steelfeather Rapture 2 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:41 am

I think the reason why the "no-no" policies dramatically increase the black market isn't because smugglers favor those policies per se. I think it's because if your government launches on major "no-no" policies, the majority of other nations are (simulated as) suddenly willing to support smugglers against your government. Think about North Korea. It's a bad government. Everyone knows that. How many people know that a major tech company from America once tried to smuggle a bunch of illegal information into North Korea in protest against North Korea's information control policies? Not many. Since I do know it happened, better question: why did that happen? Because North Korea is a no-no government doing bad things.

I'm thinking of a particular effort from a particular tech company, but I don't want to go into details. Still, it didn't really have to be kept a big secret from this end. Some people caught wind of that and were like, "Hey, we shouldn't be smugglers," but nobody caught wind of it and were like, "Hey, that company is an evil smuggler haven now!" North Korea's reputation is so bad that smugglers targeting it are heroes.


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