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Black Market Hackery - Please Save My Other Nation

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Steelfeather Rapture 1
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Founded: Aug 18, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Black Market Hackery - Please Save My Other Nation

Postby Steelfeather Rapture 1 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:49 am

So I've been playing Steelfeather Rapture 2 very consistently against the black market. VERY consistently. I haven't actually messed it up yet in-the-moment as all of my issue choices have been against the black market. You wouldn't however be able to tell by looking at the black market graph, which keeps getting amended to show HUGE increases.

Steelfeather Rapture 2 is here:
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=ste ... _rapture_2

Before:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SPC0pJ ... sp=sharing

After:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FKVdek ... sp=sharing

This one is super-significant, because that day (where the integrity surged) was also a day where political freedoms increased. IE, it was a day where the people's political freedoms were against smuggling, and yet smuggling was later amended to have surged. The day before it had likewise been a day in which people were disincluding smugglers, and yet smuggling increased a little nevertheless.

My original intention with Steelfeather Rapture 2 was actually to create a nation with a huge initial black market (5.6% in fact) which would then show a dramatic decline over time, so much so that even though population growth increases the black market graph as well, it would still show an overall downwards trend of black market activity. Even for a day! Yet it doesn't seem to be possible, and I feel like hackery moments like this are a totally artificial beyond-the-rules way to make it impossible. Please fix this.
Please telegram me if you want me to be active in a thread... I'm shy, and the telegrams scare me less than the forum itself.

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Kors
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Founded: Dec 02, 2020
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kors » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:28 pm

Reduction of economic freedom without law enforcement causes black market to rise. So does corruption.
Hello. I'm Kors. Welcome to my sig.It's a normal sig, a completely ordinary sig, an indifferent sig. You won't find anything different in this sig
So I might tell you a little bit about me.
I'm 15. I like to ignore low effort posts cause I can. I once overdosed on vitamin gummy bears. I'm a proud member of XKI and I'm also a proud f7er
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Kors wins Eurovision by a mere 2 votes. Kors allows dog walkers free. Kors is kors. Kors is nearly 1% scientific advancement. Kors is a happy person. Kors does not like to give out snacks to conquered protectorates anymore, due to extended taxation cuts.

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Steelfeather Rapture 1
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Founded: Aug 18, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Steelfeather Rapture 1 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:38 pm

Kors wrote:Reduction of economic freedom without law enforcement causes black market to rise. So does corruption.


The nation in question has never yet reduced economic freedom nor has it increased corruption. Every issue response it has used so far has reduced the black market or done nothing to the black market. One of its integrity+up moments did nothing to the black market. That was this one: "Elections have become procedural nightmares due to voters persistently rejecting candidates." However, that same day, this was played to reduce the black market: "Teenagers are told they're not thinking about sex enough."
Last edited by Steelfeather Rapture 1 on Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please telegram me if you want me to be active in a thread... I'm shy, and the telegrams scare me less than the forum itself.

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Kors
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Founded: Dec 02, 2020
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kors » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:51 pm

Steelfeather Rapture 1 wrote:
Kors wrote:Reduction of economic freedom without law enforcement causes black market to rise. So does corruption.


The nation in question has never yet reduced economic freedom nor has it increased corruption. Every issue response it has used so far has reduced the black market or done nothing to the black market. One of its integrity+up moments did nothing to the black market. That was this one: "Elections have become procedural nightmares due to voters persistently rejecting candidates." However, that same day, this was played to reduce the black market: "Teenagers are told they're not thinking about sex enough."

Inclusiveness, civil rights, niceness, compassion and taxation increase black market. It's a really weird stat that I am still trying to understand right now. From what I can tell, you do not have enough law enforcement to keep up with the black market.
Hello. I'm Kors. Welcome to my sig.It's a normal sig, a completely ordinary sig, an indifferent sig. You won't find anything different in this sig
So I might tell you a little bit about me.
I'm 15. I like to ignore low effort posts cause I can. I once overdosed on vitamin gummy bears. I'm a proud member of XKI and I'm also a proud f7er
news
Kors wins Eurovision by a mere 2 votes. Kors allows dog walkers free. Kors is kors. Kors is nearly 1% scientific advancement. Kors is a happy person. Kors does not like to give out snacks to conquered protectorates anymore, due to extended taxation cuts.

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Steelfeather Rapture 1
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Posts: 24
Founded: Aug 18, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Steelfeather Rapture 1 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:28 pm

Kors wrote:
Steelfeather Rapture 1 wrote:
The nation in question has never yet reduced economic freedom nor has it increased corruption. Every issue response it has used so far has reduced the black market or done nothing to the black market. One of its integrity+up moments did nothing to the black market. That was this one: "Elections have become procedural nightmares due to voters persistently rejecting candidates." However, that same day, this was played to reduce the black market: "Teenagers are told they're not thinking about sex enough."

Inclusiveness, civil rights, niceness, compassion and taxation increase black market. It's a really weird stat that I am still trying to understand right now. From what I can tell, you do not have enough law enforcement to keep up with the black market.


Thank you for your engagement. Spending on the education system in that nation has had a nice black market reduction effect just now (9.9 billion became 8.8 billion). However, let's see if the black market reduction will actually stay overnight for tomorrow.
Please telegram me if you want me to be active in a thread... I'm shy, and the telegrams scare me less than the forum itself.

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Kors
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Founded: Dec 02, 2020
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kors » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:12 pm

Steelfeather Rapture 1 wrote:
Kors wrote:Inclusiveness, civil rights, niceness, compassion and taxation increase black market. It's a really weird stat that I am still trying to understand right now. From what I can tell, you do not have enough law enforcement to keep up with the black market.


Thank you for your engagement. Spending on the education system in that nation has had a nice black market reduction effect just now (9.9 billion became 8.8 billion). However, let's see if the black market reduction will actually stay overnight for tomorrow.

Good luck. Remember that the things that reduce crime also reduce black market
Hello. I'm Kors. Welcome to my sig.It's a normal sig, a completely ordinary sig, an indifferent sig. You won't find anything different in this sig
So I might tell you a little bit about me.
I'm 15. I like to ignore low effort posts cause I can. I once overdosed on vitamin gummy bears. I'm a proud member of XKI and I'm also a proud f7er
news
Kors wins Eurovision by a mere 2 votes. Kors allows dog walkers free. Kors is kors. Kors is nearly 1% scientific advancement. Kors is a happy person. Kors does not like to give out snacks to conquered protectorates anymore, due to extended taxation cuts.

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Steelfeather Rapture 1
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Posts: 24
Founded: Aug 18, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Steelfeather Rapture 1 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:48 pm

Kors wrote:
Steelfeather Rapture 1 wrote:Thank you for your engagement. Spending on the education system in that nation has had a nice black market reduction effect just now (9.9 billion became 8.8 billion). However, let's see if the black market reduction will actually stay overnight for tomorrow.

Good luck. Remember that the things that reduce crime also reduce black market


UPDATE! I've got an update. I've watched the stats model update itself hideously. Check this out, because it's bad enough I want to file a bug report:

Before:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yig-JT ... sp=sharing

After:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1myWXMf ... sp=sharing

We are SAME DAY, and my black market stat has gone from 8.8 billion to 10.3 billion.

I have played CONSISTENTLY against the black market in Steelfeather Rapture 2, and the game is manipulating the appearances on that.
Last edited by Steelfeather Rapture 1 on Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please telegram me if you want me to be active in a thread... I'm shy, and the telegrams scare me less than the forum itself.

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SherpDaWerp
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Founded: Mar 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby SherpDaWerp » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:36 pm

Black market changes with population; this is a fact you even mention in your OP. Have you considered that you might just not be outpacing population-based increases? Population only increases at update, which would result in this once-a-day "manipulation" you're seeing.

Try looking at your Economy pie chart (https://www.nationstates.net/nation=ste ... il=economy) day by day to see if that changes outside issue answering. Unfortunately, there's no black-market-per-capita stat you can use, so this is the best you've got.

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Kors
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Posts: 257
Founded: Dec 02, 2020
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kors » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:06 pm

SherpDaWerp wrote:Black market changes with population; this is a fact you even mention in your OP. Have you considered that you might just not be outpacing population-based increases? Population only increases at update, which would result in this once-a-day "manipulation" you're seeing.

Try looking at your Economy pie chart (https://www.nationstates.net/nation=ste ... il=economy) day by day to see if that changes outside issue answering. Unfortunately, there's no black-market-per-capita stat you can use, so this is the best you've got.

They're talking about black market against economic output. When population changes, black market does too, but so does economic output.
Hello. I'm Kors. Welcome to my sig.It's a normal sig, a completely ordinary sig, an indifferent sig. You won't find anything different in this sig
So I might tell you a little bit about me.
I'm 15. I like to ignore low effort posts cause I can. I once overdosed on vitamin gummy bears. I'm a proud member of XKI and I'm also a proud f7er
news
Kors wins Eurovision by a mere 2 votes. Kors allows dog walkers free. Kors is kors. Kors is nearly 1% scientific advancement. Kors is a happy person. Kors does not like to give out snacks to conquered protectorates anymore, due to extended taxation cuts.

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SherpDaWerp
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Posts: 1233
Founded: Mar 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby SherpDaWerp » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:37 pm

Kors wrote:
SherpDaWerp wrote:Black market changes with population; this is a fact you even mention in your OP. Have you considered that you might just not be outpacing population-based increases? Population only increases at update, which would result in this once-a-day "manipulation" you're seeing.

Try looking at your Economy pie chart (https://www.nationstates.net/nation=ste ... il=economy) day by day to see if that changes outside issue answering. Unfortunately, there's no black-market-per-capita stat you can use, so this is the best you've got.

They're talking about black market against economic output. When population changes, black market does too, but so does economic output.

Every screenshot they've posted is purely census 79, aka black market. In fact, your post is the first mention of any comparative scale in this thread. I suggested looking at the pie chart because that actually is a comparative, not looking at the pure black market stat.

By my calculations, at 2 mil population per day (which is the standard growth rate at your current population), you can decrease your black market share by a least a full 0.2% today and still see a net black market increase.

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Kors
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Posts: 257
Founded: Dec 02, 2020
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kors » Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:28 pm

SherpDaWerp wrote:
Kors wrote:They're talking about black market against economic output. When population changes, black market does too, but so does economic output.

Every screenshot they've posted is purely census 79, aka black market. In fact, your post is the first mention of any comparative scale in this thread. I suggested looking at the pie chart because that actually is a comparative, not looking at the pure black market stat.

By my calculations, at 2 mil population per day (which is the standard growth rate at your current population), you can decrease your black market share by a least a full 0.2% today and still see a net black market increase.

I'm using one of my nations as an example, since at some points I wasn't actively answering issues on that nation. On Thursday, March 4th, it had 44.233 trillion economic output and 62 billion black market, giving it approximately 0.14% of the economic output.
On Friday the economic output increased by 334 billion, getting it 44.667 trillion, increasing it by 0.75, and the black market increased by 600 million, giving it 62.6 billion black market, increasing it by 0.97 of it's original black market.
But on Saturday, the economic output increased by 1.58, leading it up to 45.274 billion, while Black market Increased by 1.4%, giving it 63500000000.

It's a weird stat, but it isn't going to increase faster than population or economic output does, unless you answer issues, which I did not do at the time.
Hello. I'm Kors. Welcome to my sig.It's a normal sig, a completely ordinary sig, an indifferent sig. You won't find anything different in this sig
So I might tell you a little bit about me.
I'm 15. I like to ignore low effort posts cause I can. I once overdosed on vitamin gummy bears. I'm a proud member of XKI and I'm also a proud f7er
news
Kors wins Eurovision by a mere 2 votes. Kors allows dog walkers free. Kors is kors. Kors is nearly 1% scientific advancement. Kors is a happy person. Kors does not like to give out snacks to conquered protectorates anymore, due to extended taxation cuts.

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Steelfeather Rapture 2
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Posts: 1
Founded: Nov 17, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Steelfeather Rapture 2 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:58 am

Hah! I got the Black Market score under its founding level! I did it! Even if it lasts but a day, today I did it!

It started at 6.6 million. It's currently at 5.5 million.


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