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[submitted 5.10.21] Busting To Go

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Anarchy

[submitted 5.10.21] Busting To Go

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:13 am

Amazingly, in the US, the legislative filibuster is actually a thing. I don't know if its the best idea ever, or the worst idea ever*. So, good issue topic!

3:
Busting To Go

VALIDITY:
follow up to 130.2

DESCRIPTION:
"...and thusly, this must now be considered under the sixteen sections and three-hundred-and-twenty-four subsections of the wrongly redacted Dunnage and Silage Act 1935, which seem relevant to this situation and which I will now recite..." It's been nine hours, and the deputy vice-leader of the opposition isn't done talking. You recently approved the tactic of filibustering as necessary for the legislative process, but frankly this is physiologically exhausting! Even with a flask of coffee, a plate of croissants and a well-used bucket provided to you by a thoughtful aide, this is proving a real trial. Surprisingly, the speaker stops for a moment, and addresses you directly.

OPTION 1
"Look here, @@LEADER@@, you know that I can go on like this till the end of session, and I can pick it up again tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after," @@HE@@ says, almost threateningly. "Why don't we both save ourselves some trouble and allow ourselves the option for a minority quorum of legislators to declare that we are intending to filibuster indefinitely. A legislative filibuster if you will, which assumes that a virtual me is continuing to place an obstacle to the passage of this bill. It'll save time in the long run, recognising the need for filibusters to exist, while not wasting time that you could be using on the business of government."
OUTCOME:
a major piece of minority legislation allows a majority of minority interests to majorly undermine majority politics

OPTION 2
"And that's democracy is it?" counters your Minister of Tyrannical Majorities, bringing you a fresh bucket. "We should have some mechanism to bust filibusters, perhaps with a three-fifths majority vote of legislators being enough to declare that a debate has ended, and that the vote proper should take place without further delay. That's called cloture, boss, which I believe is foreign-talk for guillotining a blatherer's noggin off. Metaphorically, of course!"
OUTCOME:
gangs of political bullies tell minority voices to "shut up because we say so"

OPTION 3
"Honestly, this whole thing is making a mockery of the legislative process," interjects your brother, who technically isn't allowed to be in here, and who has been throwing peanut shells at the speaker with varying degrees of accuracy for the last forty-five minutes. "If you want @@HIM@@ to stop talking, then just put your hand over @@HIS@@ mouth for thirty seconds, and then declare that the silence means they've stopped talking."
OUTCOME:
the "la la la I'm not listening" tactic has been entrenched in political culture

OPTION 4
"Chaps, this IS the system working, don't you see?" explains an elder statesman, who has woken from a short nap, and is still wearing his nightcap. "The mechanisms of democracy have tangled the powers-that-be into blissful inaction, and befuddled the populace beneath a barrage of bureaucratic bewitchery. Politics drags on, the entire process of government is kicked to the long grass, and the country prospers because old fools like us don't try to run things. Just sit back, listen, relax. The decades will fly by, and before you know it you'll be retiring to the quango, cushy corporate advisory role or tropical island of your choice." A black cat walks past, and for a moment you experience a weird sense of deja vu.
OUTCOME:
life is somewhat repetitive
GAME EFFECT:
no stat changes, chain back to this issue




2:
Busting To Go

VALIDITY:
follow up to 130.2

DESCRIPTION:
"...and thusly, this must now be considered under the sixteen sections and three-hundred-and-twenty-four subsections of the wrongly redacted Dunnage and Silage Act 1935, which seem relevant to this situation and which I will now recite..." It's been nine hours, and the deputy vice-leader of the opposition isn't done talking. You know you approved the tactic of filibustering as necessary for the legislative process, but frankly this is physiologically exhausting, even with a flask of coffee, a plate of croissants and a well-used bucket provided to you by a thoughtful aide. Surprisingly, the speaker stops for a moment, and addresses you directly.

OPTION 1
"Look here, @@LEADER@@, you know that I can go on like this till the end of session, and I can pick it up again tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after," @@HE@@ says, almost threateningly. "Why don't we both save ourselves some trouble and allow ourselves the option for a minority quorum of legislators to declare that we are intending to filibuster indefinitely. A legislative filibuster if you will, which assumes that a virtual me is continuing to place an obstacle to the passage of this bill. It'll save time in the long run, recognising the need for filibusters to exist, while not wasting time that you could be using on the business of government."
OUTCOME:
a major piece of minority legislation allows a majority of minority interests to majorly undermine majority politics

OPTION 2
"And that's democracy is it?" counters your Minister of Tyrannical Majorities, bringing you a fresh bucket. "We should have some mechanism to bust filibusters, perhaps with a three-fifths majority vote of legislators being enough to declare that a debate has ended, and that the vote proper should take place without further delay. That's called cloture, boss, which I believe is foreign-talk for guillotining a blatherer's noggin off. Chop chop!"
OUTCOME:
debates can be brought to a sharp end by telling legislators there's a free buffet waiting for them when they're done

OPTION 3
"Honestly, this whole thing is making a mockery of the legislative process," interjects your brother, who technically isn't allowed to be in here, and who has been throwing peanut shells at the speaker with varying degrees of accuracy for the last forty-five minutes. "If you want @@HIM@@ to stop talking, then just put your hand over @@HIS@@ mouth for thirty seconds, and then declare that the silence means they've stopped talking."
OUTCOME:
the "la la la I'm not listening" tactic has been entrenched in political culture


1:
Busting To Go

VALIDITY:
follow up to 130.2
would also be mildly hilarious if option 2 of this issue led back to this issue, but probably not workable.

DESCRIPTION:
"...and thusly, this must now be considered under the sixteen sections and three-hundred-and-twenty-four subsections of the wrongly redacted Dunnage and Silage Act 1935, which seem relevant to this situation and which I will now recite..." It's been nine hours, and the deputy vice-leader of the opposition isn't done talking. You know you approved the tactic of filibustering as necessary for the legislative process, but frankly this is physiologically exhausting, with a paradoxical combination of full bladder and parching thirst making this interminable rambling near intolerable. Surprisingly, the speaker stops for a moment, and addresses you directly.

OPTION 1
"Look here, @@LEADER@@, you know that I can go on like this till the end of session, and I can pick it up again tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after," @@HE@@ says, almost threateningly. "Why don't we both save ourselves some trouble and allow ourselves the option for a minority quorum of, say, sixty legislators to declare that we are intending to filibuster indefinitely. A legislative filibuster if you will, which assumes that a virtual me is continuing to place an obstacle to the passage of this bill. It'll save time in the long run, recognising the need for filibusters to exist, while not wasting time that you could be using on the business of government."
OUTCOME:
a major piece of minority legislation allows a majority of minority interests to majorly undermine majority politics

OPTION 2
"Oh no, I don't think so," counters your Secretary of Secretarial Tasks, bringing you a flask of coffee, some croissants, and an empty bucket. "We can camp out and wait, while this hapless speaker has to stand there and continue uninterrupted. If @@HE@@ can't keep it up, then the obstruction ends, and the filibuster ends. Boss, do you want the vanilla or the chocolate pastry?"
OUTCOME:
slipping laxatives into someone's coffee is considered the height of dirty politics

OPTION 3
"Honestly, this whole thing is making a mockery of the legislative process," interjects your brother, who technically isn't allowed to be in here, and who has been throwing peanut shells at the speaker with varying degrees of accuracy for the last forty-five minutes. "If you want @@HIM@@ to stop talking, then just put your hand over @@HIS@@ mouth for thirty seconds, and then declare that the silence means @@HE@@'s stopped talking."
OUTCOME:
the "la la la I'm not listening" tactic has been entrenched in political culture


*actually, no it's definitely the worst.
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:31 am, edited 18 times in total.
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Verdant Haven
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Postby Verdant Haven » Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:16 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Amazingly, in the US, the legislative filibuster is actually a thing.


*Twitch* Yes, yes it is *Twitch*

For Option 1, I would avoid declaring a specific number of legislators, and stick with a percent instead. Some legislatures don't even have 60 members, while others are sufficiently large than 60 is an irrelevant handful. Something like 40% would be a "reasonable" (Hahakillmenow...) suggestion from a large minority wanting to control the process. Basically means a super-majority is required to get anything done.

Currently both Option 2 and Option 3 look to do roughly the same thing - wait until there's a momentary pause, then declare it over. I love the peanut-throwing brother in Option 3, so I'd propose in Option 2 to implement a Cloture rule. Get enough opposing votes, and you can forcibly end a filibuster by terminating debate and bringing about a vote. That would allow for both a procedural way of reigning things in, and a somewhat more underhanded one.
Last edited by Verdant Haven on Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:41 am

I strongly considered a cloture option, but was swayed by the idea of coffee, croissants and a bucket, which is so similar to the way the very first filibuster was dealt with. I think you're right though, I can move that joke to option 3, perhaps, and find room for cloture.

Draft 2 soon!

And done. New effect line isn't as good though, so thoughts welcome.
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Verdant Haven
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Postby Verdant Haven » Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:21 am

In keeping with the tongue-twisting nature of the first effect line, perhaps the second could be something like:

"a dust-up over filibusters has led to a filibuster buster"

...or going a punnier route:

"legislators can finally bring cloture to long-simmering feuds"
Last edited by Verdant Haven on Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Thermodolia » Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:39 am

I would throw in a fourth option which is more in line with how the UK, and the US did at one point, does filibusters. Yes the US isn’t the only nation to have filibusters, they actually started in Rome and since that time have moved to several Commonwealth nations, France, Spain, South Korea, and the USA. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster

But anyway there should be an option about how the filibuster can only go on for as long as the person filibustering is talking, once they stop it’s over and they can’t restart, and that the filibuster must cover the points germane to the bill.

So you could end up with a fourth effect line like so “Filibusters regularly end when the representatives forget what they where going to say.”
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Postby Authoritaria-Imperia » Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:33 pm

I think you've edited it out of the original post, but your idea to make option 2 give you the whole Issue all over again is hilarious. I'd go as far as to say that if that's not mechanically possible, you should submit two copies of the Issue that cycle to each other.

The only trick would be making the two Issues' respective second options give opposite stat effects so a player can't just max one stat by staying in the loop for ages.
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:25 am

Do people actually pay attention to what's been said in filibusters?
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:58 pm

As suggested I've added back an option for a recursive loop. So long as there's no stat changes to it, I can't see any reason why it would be game-breaking.
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Jutsa
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Capitalizt

Postby Jutsa » Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:31 pm

Yes. Please.

I will say it again.

Yes. Please.
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Verdant Haven
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Postby Verdant Haven » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:50 pm

Love the auto-loop :-P

In terms of the draft, option 2 still feels slightly off to me, simply due to the mix of different references/ideas. I think as a player, I wouldn't know if I'm supposed to believe the "chop their head off" bit is literal and I'm going to end up with the Capital Punishment policy, or if it's just weird hyperbole. I also would probably miss the connection between the option as written, and the free buffet in the effect line.

I might look at rephrasing the end of option 2 as something like "...which I believe is foreign-talk for 'Let's go get some breakfast!'" That would remove the trouble of having the option present two drastically different solutions at once (only one of which is believable in the real world, but this is NS... chop chop!), and would link the effect line joke to something concrete.
Last edited by Verdant Haven on Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Pogaria » Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:06 pm

Nice - a filibuster issue that can repeat endlessly. This is excellent. :)

Verdant Haven wrote:Love the auto-loop :-P

In terms of the draft, option 2 still feels slightly off to me, simply due to the mix of different references/ideas. I think as a player, I wouldn't know if I'm supposed to believe the "chop their head off" bit is literal and I'm going to end up with the Capital Punishment policy, or if it's just weird hyperbole. I also would probably miss the connection between the option as written, and the free buffet in the effect line.

I might look at rephrasing the end of option 2 as something like "...which I believe is foreign-talk for 'Let's go get some breakfast!'" That would remove the trouble of having the option present two drastically different solutions at once (only one of which is believable in the real world, but this is NS... chop chop!), and would link the effect line joke to something concrete.

I agree with VH. It sounds like the second option implements capital punishment. Let's rephrase that.
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Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:19 pm

Pogaria wrote:Nice - a filibuster issue that can repeat endlessly. This is excellent. :)

Verdant Haven wrote:Love the auto-loop :-P

In terms of the draft, option 2 still feels slightly off to me, simply due to the mix of different references/ideas. I think as a player, I wouldn't know if I'm supposed to believe the "chop their head off" bit is literal and I'm going to end up with the Capital Punishment policy, or if it's just weird hyperbole. I also would probably miss the connection between the option as written, and the free buffet in the effect line.

I might look at rephrasing the end of option 2 as something like "...which I believe is foreign-talk for 'Let's go get some breakfast!'" That would remove the trouble of having the option present two drastically different solutions at once (only one of which is believable in the real world, but this is NS... chop chop!), and would link the effect line joke to something concrete.

I agree with VH. It sounds like the second option implements capital punishment. Let's rephrase that.

I wonder how you editors would be able to code the auto-loop, like after you select option 4, do you get that issue again immediately?
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:24 pm

Okay, tweaked option 2 to make it clearer this isn't a capital punishment option, and changed the effect line.
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:27 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:I wonder how you editors would be able to code the auto-loop, like after you select option 4, do you get that issue again immediately?


We have the technology. We can loop it... better... stronger... faster.
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Postby Daarwyrth » Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:00 pm

I love it! And especially the part where this would loop, that's brilliant.

I've looked it over and frankly I have nothing but praise, great draft!
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