Why does boosting culture reduce weather, and vice versa?

[Dexterra]

Never understood this: whenever I get an issue that will increase culture it will also always reduce weather. I currently have #287 Maxtopians Demand Return of the King and you can see the inverse relationship between the two. You can also see it in #42, #478, #582 and more.

The only reason I'm asking is because most of the time it seems stupid. I can understand how it might make sense for #143, #343 and #664, but not #276, #735 or #764. In fact, some of the time, I think culture and weather might have a positive relationship, like in #518 option 1 or #694 option 3.

I dunno... thoughts?

[Keira]

Since NS is a comedy game (outside of all the player-made role-plays), I'm guessing it's a little stereotype thing about how the most "cultured" places are also some of the more gloomy e.g. UK, France, Italy (as rainy as UK btw), Germany, China (smog and subtropical hell) etc.

[Bears Armed]

I agree that this correlation often seems nonsensical, and have questioned it myself in the past. I was told that the game was coded to give this result because of an assumption that 'Culture' is basically an indoors thing and that therefore an increase in Culture implies that people are spending more time indoors, which itself is more likely if the weather gets worse...

[Hulldom]

Can’t really say I see this one considering I’m Top 1% in both statistics.

[Westinor]

Can’t really say I see this one considering I’m Top 1% in both statistics.

It's possible to be high in both, as the gains you make in one often outpace those in the other? Or sometimes they're gained independently from the loss on the other, something like that. But it's possible and even almost common to be high in both. The stats do indeed take down each other, though.

[Bears Armed]

Can’t really say I see this one considering I’m Top 1% in both statistics.

Impressive! Have you been working actively towards one or both of those, or is this mainly due to secondary effects from working towards other targets instead?

[SherpDaWerp]

Because weather always works in integer increments (+2, -3, whole numbers) it's quite possible to maximise it alongside stats that should work against it. Still, top 1% for both is pretty difficult... I've been inching towards that goal for ages now and I'm still only 5 & 5. Doubly cool is the fact that you're also maintaining decent intelligence and education, both of which were mentioned as "inverse" factors to weather in the past.

For anyone who's interested, here's an old thread (in fact, probably the one Bears was talking about ) in which you can find some interesting things about the weather stat - and from [v], no less. The information is about 6 years old now, so ymmv, but in my experience it's still decently accurate.

The most up-to-date weather information (now that just makes me sound like a meteorologist!) is from the Unusual Issue Effects megathread, which states:

Weather is a funny old stat, and we don't take it into consideration when coding issues. Therefore, you should not expect any narrative consistency in the movement of this stat.

But if you look at options that increase weather, as a general standard they're mostly +environment, +health, (etc.) sort of options, so that might just be a bit of "what? no... Weather's totally random, we swear!"

[Hulldom]

Can’t really say I see this one considering I’m Top 1% in both statistics.

Impressive! Have you been working actively towards one or both of those, or is this mainly due to secondary effects from working towards other targets instead?

I really don’t know. I’m not really answering issues with the aim of having any particular badge, I just answer them as I would answer them (pretty much how I’d respond IRL) and lines go up or down, no real rhyme or reason to it in terms of strategizing for X over Y.

[Merconitonitopia]

Because weather always works in integer increments (+2, -3, whole numbers) it's quite possible to maximise it alongside stats that should work against it. Still, top 1% for both is pretty difficult... I've been inching towards that goal for ages now and I'm still only 5 & 5. Doubly cool is the fact that you're also maintaining decent intelligence and education, both of which were mentioned as "inverse" factors to weather in the past.

For anyone who's interested, here's an old thread (in fact, probably the one Bears was talking about ) in which you can find some interesting things about the weather stat - and from [v], no less. The information is about 6 years old now, so ymmv, but in my experience it's still decently accurate.

The most up-to-date weather information (now that just makes me sound like a meteorologist!) is from the Unusual Issue Effects megathread, which states:

Weather is a funny old stat, and we don't take it into consideration when coding issues. Therefore, you should not expect any narrative consistency in the movement of this stat.

But if you look at options that increase weather, as a general standard they're mostly +environment, +health, (etc.) sort of options, so that might just be a bit of "what? no... Weather's totally random, we swear!"

That old calculation is no longer in place, it seems.
If you look at Trot's site, you see that issue options change weather and culture by fixed increments that are the same for every nation, so they are purely primary, not derived from any other stat.
It may be the case that options that raise one tend to reduce the other (though I do doubt that this relationship, if true, is particular strong).

[v] mentions in that thread that weather used to be random. The idea of a purely random stat does appeal to some part of me. It would be an amusing reminder that no matter your efforts, some things belong to fate alone.

Can’t really say I see this one considering I’m Top 1% in both statistics.

Impressive! Have you been working actively towards one or both of those, or is this mainly due to secondary effects from working towards other targets instead?

I'm top 1% for both and I don't even target them. As they change in fixed increments, even a slight favour for growth over decline, or vice versa, will result in a secular tendency to the extremes.

[Jabberwocky]

How does one reduce weather? It's always there.

[Merconitonitopia]

How does one reduce weather? It's always there.

The weather stats refers to the quality of weather.

[Bears Armed]

How does one reduce weather? It's always there.

Well, there is an option to build domes over your cities, because of the smoke from a nearby nation's clearing of natural vegetation to make lots of room for oil-palm plantations...

[SherpDaWerp]

If you look at Trot's site, you see that issue options change weather and culture by fixed increments that are the same for every nation

Huh. I knew Weather was like that, but Culture doing that is new to me. I've known Culture was absolute increments (i.e. +1 or +2 depending on base stat) for a while, but not constant absolute increments (i.e. always +2). It's probably not even that new a change, tbh, I've just not noticed it before now. I wonder if anyone's been focusing Culture in the same way people often focus Weather.

It may be the case that options that raise one tend to reduce the other (though I do doubt that this relationship, if true, is particular strong).

Yeah, well, when Culture wasn't constant you could pretty easily explain the relationship, but it seems that's largely irrelevant now. Maybe you could look through Trott's archive for options that affect Culture and Weather, and see whether they trend towards opposites or not, but that's a pretty involved process.

[v] mentions in that thread that weather used to be random. The idea of a purely random stat does appeal to some part of me. It would be an amusing reminder that no matter your efforts, some things belong to fate alone.

I do agree, but I also kinda think environment/smog should factor into it somehow.

Thanks for pointing out that culture thing... I would never have realised it was constant.

[Bears Armed]

If you look at Trot's site, you see that issue options change weather and culture by fixed increments that are the same for every nation

Huh. I knew Weather was like that, but Culture doing that is new to me. I've known Culture was absolute increments (i.e. +1 or +2 depending on base stat) for a while, but not constant absolute increments (i.e. always +2). It's probably not even that new a change, tbh, I've just not noticed it before now. I wonder if anyone's been focusing Culture in the same way people often focus Weather.

Yes.
I was at #12 with this nation before pandemic-related 'lockdown' matters kept me offline altogether for about half a year & then left me with only greatly reduced internet access (including another, shorter, period of full 'lockdown') until a few weeks ago.
On my initial return I found that the country had been overtaken by enough other nations during my absence to push me down to #15, and another one also over-took me (causing a drop to #16) during the subsequent period of reduced activity as well... and the nations climbing the table then are still climbing, to some extent, so so that it's taken me almost this long (at four issues per day) to regain the first two steps back upwards.
And I had already been in the top 01% for a while before this nation was commended, as that resolution actually mentions, which was quite some time ago itself by now: The fact that it's taken me so long since then to reach my current level shows the extent of competition for the top places.
IIRC, it was being notified that this nation had entered the the top 05% -- which is actually quite easy to do, because it seems that most nations whose players aren't deliberately trying to boost this stat don't rise far above the mean value -- that inspired me to start making a deliberate effort in this direction.

EDT: I've just checked 3 more Issues for this nation _ +1.00 to Culture, Dismissed (no options would have affected Culture), +3.00 to Culture; still "only" at 14th in the world, but closing nicely now on 13th place...

[Dexterra]

EDT: I've just checked 3 more Issues for this nation _ +1.00 to Culture, Dismissed (no options would have affected Culture), +3.00 to Culture; still "only" at 14th in the world, but closing nicely now on 13th place...

In my very recent experience I found that hitting 83.00 on the Snufflebottom-Wiggendum Pentatonic Scale gets you in the top 10

[Dexterra]

I'm still a little annoyed about the weather-culture relationship but I've started just saving my culture-boosting issues for when I get weather-boosting issues

[Bears Armed]

EDT: I've just checked 3 more Issues for this nation _ +1.00 to Culture, Dismissed (no options would have affected Culture), +3.00 to Culture; still "only" at 14th in the world, but closing nicely now on 13th place...

In my very recent experience I found that hitting 83.00 on the Snufflebottom-Wiggendum Pentatonic Scale gets you in the top 10

And it seemed to me that the default value for new nations is already somewhere around 60, so reaching that threshold of 83 could be done with fewer than 24 suitable options received...

[Dexterra]

And it seemed to me that the default value for new nations is already somewhere around 60, so reaching that threshold of 83 could be done with fewer than 24 suitable options received...

Sure, but you might end up with worse weather than Mordor!

[Trotterdam]

Yeah. NationStates tend to take a "wishful thinking" approach to weather. If your people are fond of outdoors activities (such as sports) that benefit from having nice weather, then the weather will actually become nicer to accomodate them. If your people are more fond of indoors activities (such as reading or listening to concerts or visiting museums), then the weather will go off and do its own thing while everyone is indoors and ignoring it.

This is of course not perfectly accurate, even accepting the cause/effect inversion, because there are still some sports that are practiced indoors, and some cultural activities that are practiced outdoors. However, it's about as much nuance as NationStates can manage.

Amusingly, my nation and the rest of my region - where pegasi can manipulate the weather - is one of the few places where this behavior actually makes sense.

[Jutsa]

Can confirm, as someone who's invested heavily into both weather and culture (top 1% for both; keep in mind this is top 1% including existential invader puppet and self-congratulatory merchant card banker clones), I can confirm both are possible. I'm also almost certain you can achieve extremely low levels of both.

Fun fact: you also can have high culture and toxicity! I myself have an alt that has really low culture and toxicity.

[Land Without Shrimp]

Huh. I knew Weather was like that, but Culture doing that is new to me. I've known Culture was absolute increments (i.e. +1 or +2 depending on base stat) for a while, but not constant absolute increments (i.e. always +2). It's probably not even that new a change, tbh, I've just not noticed it before now. I wonder if anyone's been focusing Culture in the same way people often focus Weather.

Yes.
I was at #12 with this nation before pandemic-related 'lockdown' matters kept me offline altogether for about half a year & then left me with only greatly reduced internet access (including another, shorter, period of full 'lockdown') until a few weeks ago.
On my initial return I found that the country had been overtaken by enough other nations during my absence to push me down to #15, and another one also over-took me (causing a drop to #16) during the subsequent period of reduced activity as well... and the nations climbing the table then are still climbing, to some extent, so so that it's taken me almost this long (at four issues per day) to regain the first two steps back upwards.
And I had already been in the top 01% for a while before this nation was commended, as that resolution actually mentions, which was quite some time ago itself by now: The fact that it's taken me so long since then to reach my current level shows the extent of competition for the top places.
IIRC, it was being notified that this nation had entered the the top 05% -- which is actually quite easy to do, because it seems that most nations whose players aren't deliberately trying to boost this stat don't rise far above the mean value -- that inspired me to start making a deliberate effort in this direction.

EDT: I've just checked 3 more Issues for this nation _ +1.00 to Culture, Dismissed (no options would have affected Culture), +3.00 to Culture; still "only" at 14th in the world, but closing nicely now on 13th place...

And here I thought I had good Culture. It's definitely one of the stats I focus on, but I see I have a long way to go now...

And I do think I have a reasonably nice nation, but my Weather is abysmal and continually getting worse, no matter that I have decently good Environment, etc. I am in awe of you nations that have top 1% Culture and Weather. *applauds*

[Bears Armed]

Yes.
I was at #12 with this nation before pandemic-related 'lockdown' matters kept me offline altogether for about half a year & then left me with only greatly reduced internet access (including another, shorter, period of full 'lockdown') until a few weeks ago.
On my initial return I found that the country had been overtaken by enough other nations during my absence to push me down to #15, and another one also over-took me (causing a drop to #16) during the subsequent period of reduced activity as well... and the nations climbing the table then are still climbing, to some extent, so so that it's taken me almost this long (at four issues per day) to regain the first two steps back upwards.
And I had already been in the top 01% for a while before this nation was commended, as that resolution actually mentions, which was quite some time ago itself by now: The fact that it's taken me so long since then to reach my current level shows the extent of competition for the top places.
IIRC, it was being notified that this nation had entered the the top 05% -- which is actually quite easy to do, because it seems that most nations whose players aren't deliberately trying to boost this stat don't rise far above the mean value -- that inspired me to start making a deliberate effort in this direction.

EDT: I've just checked 3 more Issues for this nation _ +1.00 to Culture, Dismissed (no options would have affected Culture), +3.00 to Culture; still "only" at 14th in the world, but closing nicely now on 13th place...

And here I thought I had good Culture. It's definitely one of the stats I focus on, but I see I have a long way to go now...

And I do think I have a reasonably nice nation, but my Weather is abysmal and continually getting worse, no matter that I have decently good Environment, etc. I am in awe of you nations that have top 1% Culture and Weather. *applauds*

You do have good Culture: Top 0.3% in the world is good.
And I haven't been able to maintain a good Weather rating in the process.

[Merconitonitopia]

I'm also almost certain you can achieve extremely low levels of both.

Ancap nations tend to zero out both in the long run.

[Dexterra]

Ancap nations tend to zero out both in the long run.

As do a lot of psychotic dictatorships

[Candlewhisper Archive]

How does one reduce weather? It's always there.

An excellent koan.