NationStates

Posted: **Sat May 08, 2021 1:40 am**

I've been wanting to do a draft on coercive control for awhile. Inspired by the case of Sally Challen.

Draft Three

Title: To Love, Honour and Obey

Validity: Women's rights neither terribly low nor wonderfully high;

Description: After @@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@ was arrested for the attempted murder of her partner of twenty-five years, the prosecutor had a slam-dunk. Responding to a call, the police found @@RANDOMFIRSTNAMEMALE@@ @@RANDOMSURNAME_1@@, blood-spattered and in hiding, as @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_1@@ held the knife and flatly said "I missed". She was convicted after three minutes of deliberation. Now, her adult son has come to appeal to you directly.

Option: "My mother has not known a day of freedom since she met that man," cries @@RANDOMFIRSTNAMEMALE@@, pointing to his father, whose upper body is heavily bandaged and arms are in slings. "She was a victim of coercive control. He told her what to what to wear, what to buy, who she could talk to, when she could sleep. Every day, he told her she was worthless. She has more dignity in prison! When she threatened to leave him, he told us kids: 'Your mother is leaving us. You'll never see her again'. She should have gone but he'd broken her. You need to ensure this kind of psychological and verbal abuse and manipulation is prosecuted and victims helped. My mother was a desperate captive. Monsters like him belong in jail, not her."
Effect: asking your partner to cut back on their spending leads to a hefty prison sentence
Option Validity: Must have prisons

Option: "My mother has not known a day of freedom since she met that man," cries @@RANDOMFIRSTNAMEMALE@@, pointing to his father, whose upper body is heavily bandaged and arms are in slings. "She was a victim of coercive control. He told her what to what to wear, what to buy, who she could talk to, when she could sleep. Every day, he told her she was worthless. She has more dignity at the rehabilitation centre! When she threatened to leave him, he told us kids: 'Your mother is leaving us. You'll never see her again'. She should have gone but he'd broken her. You need to ensure this kind of psychological and verbal abuse and manipulation is prosecuted and victims helped. My mother was a desperate captive. Monsters like him should be punished, not her."
Effect: asking your partner to cut back on their spending leads to a hefty punishment
Option Validity: No prisons

Option: "Don't blame the boy," smiles @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_2@@, blinking meekly up at you. "He has an infant's natural loyalty to his mother. Sadly, his fragile mind has blocked out what his mother really said, before I told the children she was leaving. It is easier to imagine some bad behaviour on my part than to accept he was unwanted by his mama. Sadly, @@LEADER@@, my partner also seriously believes I have somehow mistreated her. She's so naïve; she cannot realise I've only ever sought to protect her. This is why you must give no quarter to my son's infantile suggestion. Can you imagine the harm if someone as mentally weak as @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_1@@ -- even outright liars -- convinced anyone that their unsound memory is true? People like me could lose everything."
Effect: partners seem to imagine walking into doors more often

Option: "Isn't it sad that we need to tell people to not monitor the time their partners spend talking to other people? Shouldn't a principle of 'Don't Be a Weirdo' just about cover it?" says Minister of Just Quit It Already @@RANDOMNAME@@, as @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_2@@ jumps up with his fist pointing accusingly, before resuming his head-bowed seated position. "I mean, it's one thing to shut the gate after the horse has got a shiv and shanked the... erm, bolt, but a pound of prevention is worth an ounce of cure... or, you know what I mean. So, sure, domestic violence laws should cover these behaviours, but we also need to teach children how to avoid future controlling relationships."
Effect: five years olds analyse the onset of Stockholm Syndrome in 'Beauty and the Beast'

Title: To Love, Honour and Obey

Validity: Women's rights neither terribly low nor wonderfully high;

Description: After @@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@ was arrested for the attempted murder of her partner of twenty-five years, the prosecutor had a slam-dunk. Responding to a call, the police found @@RANDOMFIRSTNAMEMALE@@ @@RANDOMSURNAME_1@@, blood-spattered and in hiding, as @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_1@@ held the knife and flatly said "I missed". She was convicted after three minutes of deliberation. Now, her adult son has come to appeal to you directly.

Option: "My mother has not known a day of freedom since she met that man," cries @@RANDOMFIRSTNAMEMALE@@, pointing to his father, whose upper body is heavily bandaged and arms are in slings. "She was a victim of coercive control. He told her what to what to wear, what to buy, who she could talk to, when she could sleep. Every day, he told her she was worthless. She has more dignity in prison! When she threatened to leave him, he told us kids: 'Your mother is leaving us. You'll never see her again'. She should have gone but he'd broken her. You need to ensure this kind of psychological and verbal abuse and manipulation is prosecuted and victims helped. My mother was a desperate captive. Monsters like him belong in jail, not her."
Effect: asking your partner to cut back on their spending leads to a hefty prison sentence
Option Validity: Must have prisons

Option: "My mother has not known a day of freedom since she met that man," cries @@RANDOMFIRSTNAMEMALE@@, pointing to his father, whose upper body is heavily bandaged and arms are in slings. "She was a victim of coercive control. He told her what to what to wear, what to buy, who she could talk to, when she could sleep. Every day, he told her she was worthless. She has more dignity at the rehabilitation centre! When she threatened to leave him, he told us kids: 'Your mother is leaving us. You'll never see her again'. She should have gone but he'd broken her. You need to ensure this kind of psychological and verbal abuse and manipulation is prosecuted and victims helped. My mother was a desperate captive. Monsters like him should be punished, not her."
Effect: asking your partner to cut back on their spending leads to a hefty punishment
Option Validity: No prisons

Option: "Don't blame the boy," smiles @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_2@@, blinking meekly up at you. "He has an infant's natural loyalty to his mother. Sadly, his fragile mind has blocked out what his mother really said, before I told the children she was leaving. It is easier to imagine some bad behaviour on my part than to accept he was unwanted by his mama. Sadly, @@LEADER@@, my wife also seriously imagines I have somehow mistreated her. This is why you must give no quarter to my son's infantile suggestion. Not only are some parties genuinely always in the right, ergo must lead, but can you imagine the harm if someone as mentally weak as my wife -- even outright liars -- were able to convince anyone that their unsound memory is true? People like me could lose everything."
Effect: partners seem to imagine walking into doors more often

Option: "Isn't it sad that we need to tell people to not monitor the time their partners spend talking to other people? Shouldn't a principle of 'Don't Be a Weirdo' just about cover it?" says Minister of Just Quit It Already @@RANDOMNAME@@, as @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_2@@ jumps up with his fist pointing accusingly, before resuming his head-bowed seated position. "I mean, it's one thing to shut the gate after the horse has got a shiv and shanked the... erm, bolt, but a pound of prevention is worth an ounce of cure... or, you know what I mean. So, sure, domestic violence laws should cover these behaviours, but we also need to teach children how to avoid future controlling relationships."
Effect: five years olds analyse the onset of Stockholm Syndrome in 'Beauty and the Beast'

Title: To Love, Honour and Obey

Validity: Women's rights neither terribly low nor wonderfully high;

Description: After @@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@ was arrested for the attempted murder of her partner of twenty-five years, the prosecutor had a slam-dunk. She was found standing over the prone and unconscious @@RANDOMFIRSTNAMEMALE@@ @@RANDOMSURNAME_1@@ with the knife in her hand exclaiming "I finally did it, and I'd do it again". She was convicted after three minutes of deliberation. Now, her adult son has come to appeal to you directly.

Option: "My mother has not known a day of freedom since she met that man," cries @@RANDOMFIRSTNAMEMALE@@, pointing to his father, who sits in a shiny new wheelchair opposite him. "She was a victim of coercive control. He told her what to what to wear, what to buy, who she could talk to, when she could sleep. Every day, he told her she was worthless. She has more dignity in prison! When she threatened to leave him, he told us kids: 'Your mother is leaving us. You'll never see her again'. She should have gone but he'd broken her. You need to ensure this kind of psychological and verbal abuse and manipulation is prosecuted and victims helped. My mother was a desperate captive. Monsters like him belong in jail, not her."
Effect: asking your partner to cut back on their spending leads to a hefty prison sentence
Option Validity: Must have prisons

Option: "My mother has not known a day of freedom since she met that man," cries @@RANDOMFIRSTNAMEMALE@@, pointing to his father, who sits in a shiny new wheelchair opposite him. "She was a victim of coercive control. He told her what to what to wear, what to buy, who she could talk to, when she could sleep. Every day, he told her she was worthless. She has more dignity at the rehabilitation centre! When she threatened to leave him, he told us kids: 'Your mother is leaving us. You'll never see her again'. She should have gone but he'd broken her. You need to ensure this kind of psychological and verbal abuse and manipulation is prosecuted and victims helped. My mother was a desperate captive. Monsters like him should be punished, not her."
Effect: asking your partner to cut back on their spending leads to a hefty punishment
Option Validity: No prisons

Option: "Don't blame the boy," smiles @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_2@@, blinking meekly up at you. "He has an infant's natural loyalty to his mother. Sadly, his fragile mind has blocked out what his mother really said, before I told the children she was leaving. It is easier to imagine some bad behaviour on my part than to accept he was unwanted by his mama. Sadly, @@LEADER@@, my wife also seriously imagines I have somehow mistreated her. This is why you must give no quarter to my son's infantile suggestion. Not only are there times when one party is genuinely always in the right and must lead accordingly, but can you imagine the harm if someone as mentally weak as my wife were able to convince anyone that her unsound memory is true? Parents like me could lose their children."
Effect: partners seem to imagine walking into doors more often

Option: "Isn't it sad that we need a specific law to tell people to not monitor all the time their partners spend talking to other people? Shouldn't a principle of 'Don't Be a Weirdo' just about cover it?" says Minister of Just Quit It Already @@RANDOMNAME@@, as @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_2@@ starts to jump up with his jaw tightening, before sitting and resuming his head-bowed position. "I mean, it's one thing to shut the gate after the horse has got a shiv and shanked the... erm, bolt... but a pound of prevention is worth an ounce of cure... or, you know what I mean. So, sure, domestic violence laws should cover these behaviours, but we also need to teach children how to avoid future controlling relationships."
Effect: five years olds analyse the onset of Stockholm Syndrome in 'Beauty and the Beast'

Opinions welcome.

Posted: **Sat May 08, 2021 1:42 am**

Is there even a own stat (hidden?) or so for woman rights?

Posted: **Sat May 08, 2021 1:45 am**

Nakena wrote:Is there even a own stat (hidden?) or so for woman rights?

It can be made to work.

But I prefer to let whoever would edit it think about statting it.

My focus is on the draft right now.

Posted: **Sat May 08, 2021 5:06 pm**

FJS, has anyone ever told you you've got a great theme going? Your drafts on these kinda-specific womens' rights issues are damn good.

I think the circumstances of the attempted murder itself are a bit unclear - she's got a knife (not really a blunt-force weapon) and he's prone and unconscious (and by the time you've reached that state from knife wounds there's not really much you can do to survive) and she's saying "I did it", but then he appears in Option 3 in a "shiny new wheelchair", so he's survived the attack with some impairment (temporary or permanent) enough to just need a wheelchair?

I do think having him appear in Option 3 is good for the issue, because it really lets you rub in the fact that he's a sleazy bastard, but the description doesn't really leave much room for him to still be alive in my mind.

Women's rights neither terribly low nor wonderfully high

I like to imagine that validities don't have actual code, there's just a world-first language processing system back there that parses actual sentences like this and figures it out...

Posted: **Sat May 08, 2021 8:25 pm**

SherpDaWerp wrote:FJS, has anyone ever told you you've got a great theme going? Your drafts on these kinda-specific womens' rights issues are damn good.

I think the circumstances of the attempted murder itself are a bit unclear - she's got a knife (not really a blunt-force weapon) and he's prone and unconscious (and by the time you've reached that state from knife wounds there's not really much you can do to survive) and she's saying "I did it", but then he appears in Option 3 in a "shiny new wheelchair", so he's survived the attack with some impairment (temporary or permanent) enough to just need a wheelchair?

I do think having him appear in Option 3 is good for the issue, because it really lets you rub in the fact that he's a sleazy bastard, but the description doesn't really leave much room for him to still be alive in my mind.

In my mind, the wheelchair was for show; hence having him start to get out of it in option three (because in option two he appears, making a big point of his wife and son being "mentally fragile" and imagining everything -- a classic trick used to manipulate by psychological abusers -- so I wanted to throw just a bit of doubt onto the story he's telling).

Originally, he was going to "start to stand up"... would that be less in-your-face?

Good point about the knife wounds. In my mind, they were shallow and near no major arteries or organs, but "prone and unconscious" doesn't lend itself to that impression.

I'm not sure whether to change the weapon, clarify the injury or just cut "prone and unconscious"...

Posted: **Sun May 09, 2021 2:35 am**

The Free Joy State wrote:In my mind, the wheelchair was for show; hence having him start to get out of it in option three (because in option two he appears, making a big point of his wife and son being "mentally fragile" and imagining everything -- a classic trick used to manipulate by psychological abusers -- so I wanted to throw just a bit of doubt onto the story he's telling).

Originally, he was going to "start to stand up"... would that be less in-your-face?

Having the wheelchair be "just for show" is great, although I honestly completely missed that in the original draft. Now that I've seen it - I think starting to "jump" up is better, as currently written, because it does have that certain implication that he's actually fit, whereas just "standing" up could be actively getting up, but it could also be as basic as slowly inching out of his seat as a heavily injured person might do.

However, I also think going to the full wheelchair could also be a bit much? You could achieve a similar effect (in conjunction with stuff from below) by having him nursing bandaged wounds (and implying that he's over-emphasising and acting the wounds to be worse than they are) - and I think that would work better with a more specific description of how the injuries occurred.

The Free Joy State wrote:Good point about the knife wounds. In my mind, they were shallow and near no major arteries or organs, but "prone and unconscious" doesn't lend itself to that impression.

I'm not sure whether to change the weapon, clarify the injury or just cut "prone and unconscious"...

Keeping it as a knife is good, I think, because they're 1. perceived as deadly, 2. easily accessible*, and 3. easy to not be deadly if you don't cut the victim in the right place. I think I'd do a combination of the latter two, where someone's found her chasing after/standing over him and he's already bleeding from some non-fatal stab wounds (and said non-fatal stab wounds can be what he's nursing when he appears to speak to you, per the above bit). Whatever it ends up being, also beware of changing it only for it to end up sounding like a bit of a deus ex machina-type thing where someone's barged in and found them Just In The Nick Of Time™, as she stands over his unconscious body ready to deliver the killing blow.

Also, maybe she should be exclaiming something more indicative of... in-progress-murder (?), instead of already-completed-murder, given he did still survive. "I've done it" doesn't really work when he's still breathing and moving and stuff (and if he's not "moving and stuff", see the above bit about the deus ex).

* It's occurred to me that #1098 lets you ban knives, though that's phrased as (at its most restrictive) a concealed-weapon ban and not a kitchen-utensil ban. Dunno how that's tracked (if at all) and how it's "enforced", though. If it is a problem, then it's worth changing weapons, but my other comments can still apply (just as bruising and broken bones instead of "non-fatal stab wounds").

Posted: **Sun May 09, 2021 9:50 am**

I've taken your suggestions into consideration, SherpDaWerp.

Second draft up!

EDIT: Changed this morning to make more edits to option two, keeping it in the same voice, but weighting it more to have the character suggest a reason why people might choose it.

Posted: **Sun May 09, 2021 11:16 pm**

This may be a silly question, but why are certain lines underlined?

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 12:50 am**

Debussy wrote:This may be a silly question, but why are certain lines underlined?

To highlight changes between drafts. I find it useful to track changes.

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 12:53 am**

The Free Joy State wrote:
Debussy wrote:This may be a silly question, but why are certain lines underlined?

To highlight changes between drafts. I find it useful to track changes.

O, thank you. I thought maybe it was to italicize in the issue.

Posted: **Thu May 13, 2021 12:31 am**

Hi Joy, nice issue. My criticism of it in its current form, is that from a sympathy point of view this is heavily skewered in favour of option 1. It's going to have a bad ratio!

Now, I know that the speaker in option 2 is an arsehole, but would it be possible to present his point of view slightly better? At the moment we've got "my wife imagined everything and she's weak-minded".

I'm not sure exactly how to present his argument better: maybe that he was trying to protect her from the dangers of the outside world, it was all for her own good. Maybe something like that?

Posted: **Thu May 13, 2021 12:39 am**

Baggieland wrote:Hi Joy, nice issue. My criticism of it in its current form, is that from a sympathy point of view this is heavily skewered in favour of option 1. It's going to have a bad ratio!

Now, I know that the speaker in option 2 is an arsehole, but would it be possible to present his point of view slightly better? At the moment we've got "my wife imagined everything and she's weak-minded".

I'm not sure exactly how to present his argument better: maybe that he was trying to protect her from the dangers of the outside world, it was all for her own good. Maybe something like that?

I quite want to keep the gaslighting in option two, and his "they're mistaken, they're imagining everything" which relates to his (exaggerated) injuries.

But I see your point about adding more strings to his argument... I'll see what I can do.

EDIT: Third draft up. I've moved things around to accommodate a line about wanting to "protect her" (also, edited out references to "wife", as it's not supposed to only be for nations with marriage).

NationStates

[Submitted] To Love, Honour and Obey

[Submitted] To Love, Honour and Obey