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[SUBMITTED] Your Purple Clashes With My Red

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Daarwyrth
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

[SUBMITTED] Your Purple Clashes With My Red

Postby Daarwyrth » Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:14 pm

CURRENT DRAFT:
[Title] Your Purple Clashes With My Red

[Validity] Has just installed Socialism, Has Monarchy

[Description] All workers of @@NAME@@ have united, at last, and seized the means of production! Yet in the throes of socialist ecstasy, it seems no one bothered to invite the reigning monarch off the throne, or equalise the royal family out of their palaces.

[Option 1] An emboldened @@DEMONYM@@ climbs atop your desk and raises @@HIS@@ hammer and sickle triumphantly into the air. "LONG LIVE THE REVOLUTION! We can't rest until we have rooted out every single influence of the old way," with the whites of @@HIS@@ eyes visible, @@HE@@ makes a slitting motion along @@HIS@@ neck. "It's high time the royal family went in for a little trim..."

[Effect 1] the blood of the royals was red after all

[Option 2] After the revolutionary was escorted out of your office, one of your aides steps forward and rips off his moustache, revealing himself as Prince @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@. "Phew, I-uh, yes, greetings," he stammers. "All I wanted to say is that you don't need to get rid of us. Our family has always been a national symbol for our people to rally behind, why couldn't it be for a socialist @@NAME@@? After all, new realities are easier to accept if they're introduced by someone familiar. Keep our royal status as is, and we'll gladly sing to your red tunes, instead of our purple ones."

[Effect 2] factory workers finally live like kings these days

[Option 3] "Huh, yes, yes, a national symbol to rally behind is a good idea," nods your newly instated Minister of Communal Thought, while shoving the prince out the door. "But we most certainly need to lose the monarchist tones. It is time we portrayed you as the Great Parent of @@NAME@@, because like a father or mother, you'll raise our nation to be good, obedient socialists. We'll have the media pick up our song of your praise, and before you know it, everyone in our glorious, socialist paradise will proudly see you as their third parent!"

[Effect 3] children frequently use "but @@LEADER@@ said it was okay" as an excuse to get their way


DRAFT 1:
[Title] Your Purple Clashes With My Red

[Validity] Has just installed Socialism, Has Monarchy

[Description] All workers of @@NAME@@ have united, at last, and seized the means of production! Yet in the throws of socialist ecstasy, it seems no one bothered to invite the reigning monarch off the throne, or equalise the royal family out of their palaces.

[Option 1] An emboldened @@DEMONYM@@ climbs atop your desk and raises @@HIS@@ hammer and sickle triumphantly into the air. "LONG LIVE THE REVOLUTION! We can't rest until we have rooted out every single influence of the old way," with the whites of @@HIS@@ eyes visible, @@HE@@ makes a slitting motion along @@HIS@@ neck. "It's high time the royal family went in for a little trim..."

[Effect 1] the blood of the royals was red after all

[Option 2] After the revolutionary was escorted out of your office, one of your aides steps forward and rips off his moustache, revealing himself as Prince @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@. "Phew, I-uh, yes, greetings," he stammers. "All I wanted to say is that you don't need to get rid of us. Our family has always been a national symbol for our people to rally behind, why couldn't it be for a socialist @@NAME@@? After all, new realities are easier to accept if they're introduced by someone familiar. Keep our royal status as is, and we'll gladly sing to your red tunes, instead of our purple ones."

[Effect 2] factory workers finally live like kings these days

[Option 3] "Huh, yes, yes, a national symbol to rally behind is a good idea," nods your newly instated Minister of Communal Thought, while shoving the prince out the door. "But that someone needs to be you, @@LEADER@@. It is time we portrayed you as the Great Parent of @@NAME@@, because like a father or mother, you'll raise our nation to be good, obedient socialists. We'll have the parliament grant you more executive powers, and we'll have the media pick up our song of your praise. Before you know it, everyone in our glorious, socialist paradise will see you as their third parent!"

[Effect 3] children frequently use "but @@LEADER@@ said it was okay" as an excuse to get their way
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Sat May 08, 2021 4:57 am, edited 11 times in total.
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Daarwyrth
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Daarwyrth » Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:30 pm

I already see that option 3 will need to distinguish between nations that have Autocracy and those that don't, so I will fix that in the next draft :)
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Australian rePublic
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:26 pm

Why wouldn't you choose option 3? Even socialists need leaders
If you're against political parties who support the CCP, then vote against the Australian Labor Party
New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Aardern is so deeply in love with human rights and Muslim lives that she's actively going out of her way to refuse to acknowledge China's persecution of Uyghurs. It's impossible to love human rights & Muslim lives more than that!
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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:15 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:Why wouldn't you choose option 3? Even socialists need leaders

There is a leader in all 3 options? It’s simply a question of whether a monarchy remains intact under a socialist country. Seeing as how socialism doesn't exclude monarchism in terms of NS policies, it is possible to combine both, which is what this issue draft is meant to reflect. Option 1 is of course the abolition option, option 2 keeps the monarchy intact but in a socialist model, and option 3 essentially creates a personality cult around @@LEADER@@ while abolishing the monarchy.

Unless you mean that I should be more nuanced and vague regarding whether @@LEADER@@ is the monarch or not, then that would make more sense to me, yes.
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Palos Heights
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Postby Palos Heights » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:03 pm

A pitfall that many issues get into, is associating socialism with communism. I personally see it as a failing in the education system and decades of anti-Soviet propoganda, but nevertheless, I digress. People who choose to let an AI run their economy automatically fall under "Socialist" tags for their nations, these aren't people who just executed a revolution in the name of the workers against the Bourgeoisie, these are people who wanted to let an AI optimize things. So you'll have to keep in mind that socialism often times, especially in modern times, involves the state subsidizing and offering resources and services for their people at little to no cost thanks to taxation; firefighters and police officers are socialist institutions, the mailman is a socialist institution, PBS is socialist.

Keep that in mind when writing issues like these because this issue seems more fitting for communist nations rather than socialist nations.

Also, plenty of monarchies exist in currently socialist countries, one of them just lost a prince after all.
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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:08 pm

Palos Heights wrote:A pitfall that many issues get into, is associating socialism with communism. I personally see it as a failing in the education system and decades of anti-Soviet propoganda, but nevertheless, I digress. People who choose to let an AI run their economy automatically fall under "Socialist" tags for their nations, these aren't people who just executed a revolution in the name of the workers against the Bourgeoisie, these are people who wanted to let an AI optimize things. So you'll have to keep in mind that socialism often times, especially in modern times, involves the state subsidizing and offering resources and services for their people at little to no cost thanks to taxation; firefighters and police officers are socialist institutions, the mailman is a socialist institution, PBS is socialist.

Keep that in mind when writing issues like these because this issue seems more fitting for communist nations rather than socialist nations.

Also, plenty of monarchies exist in currently socialist countries, one of them just lost a prince after all.

You make a very valid point and one that I agree with. I agree that I might have gone a little overboard with the communist angle though and I'm considering altering that angle in the next draft :)
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:16 pm

Palos Heights wrote:A pitfall that many issues get into, is associating socialism with communism.
Karl Marx considered the two terms synonymous.

Palos Heights wrote:So you'll have to keep in mind that socialism often times, especially in modern times, involves the state subsidizing and offering resources and services for their people at little to no cost thanks to taxation; firefighters and police officers are socialist institutions, the mailman is a socialist institution, PBS is socialist.
None of those qualify for the "Socialism" policy as NationStates uses it.

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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:57 pm

Trotterdam wrote:
Palos Heights wrote:A pitfall that many issues get into, is associating socialism with communism.
Karl Marx considered the two terms synonymous.

Palos Heights wrote:So you'll have to keep in mind that socialism often times, especially in modern times, involves the state subsidizing and offering resources and services for their people at little to no cost thanks to taxation; firefighters and police officers are socialist institutions, the mailman is a socialist institution, PBS is socialist.
None of those qualify for the "Socialism" policy as NationStates uses it.

The issue draft has been written with the way NS approaches/views the subject of Socialism, yes.
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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:21 am

I've put up a new draft that changes option 3 a little to fit both democracies and autocracies, but also to clarify what it intends to do a little bit more. I'm leaving the representation of communism/socialism as is, for now, but I am open to altering it in future drafts!
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Sunhizria
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Postby Sunhizria » Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:28 pm

If we talk about monarchy, I'm really interested.

I do find the idea of a conflict between monarchy and socialism, but I think it's contradictory to the situation where @@LEADER@@ is the monarch.

since often, Monarchy comes from #1157 Rodney and Julietta, option 5. , where leader just decides to become the king.


Also, Shouldn't you take into account the division between patriarchy and matriarchy? multiple issues on the same subject do this?
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Draft 1: Treasure or Pest? viewtopic.php?f=13&t=501670

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Daarwyrth
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Daarwyrth » Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:50 pm

Sunhizria wrote:If we talk about monarchy, I'm really interested.

I do find the idea of a conflict between monarchy and socialism, but I think it's contradictory to the situation where @@LEADER@@ is the monarch.

since often, Monarchy comes from #1157 Rodney and Julietta, option 5. , where leader just decides to become the king.


Also, Shouldn't you take into account the division between patriarchy and matriarchy? multiple issues on the same subject do this?

When I wrote issue drafts on monarchy in the past, the general advice was to keep it ambiguous whether Leader is the monarch or not. It comes down to player autonomy, as in one nation - mine for example - Leader is the monarch. But in other nations Leader may be a Prime Minister, not the monarch. So, to keep that intact, the advice has always been to keep it vague.

In this issue I don't think a division is necessary. Because it's a member of the Royal House talking in Option 2, not the Crown Prince or Princess of the nation. In those cases it is customary to make a divide between matriarchy and patriarchy, but in this issue draft it would complicate things unnecessarily.
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sunhizria
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Postby Sunhizria » Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:06 pm

I think that currently.
the Monarchy situation can be clear.

If you get the policy from Rodotto and Julietta, you choose to become the Monarch, it's even written in the issues that your cousin suggests you become the Monarch.
only two issues can give us the Monarchy policies

But, I believe the conflict between socialism and Monarchy, not just when the nation becomes socialist since the nation can be socialist from the start, from its creation.
I believe limiting such an issue to only a Monarchist nation that becomes socialist might not be a great idea.


I believe the easter egg: Zombie attack: is the only issue that might be limited to a certain time after a nation revived, but then again, it can be gotten from modifying your costume settings, so it is not a problem.
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Daarwyrth
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Daarwyrth » Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:12 pm

Sunhizria wrote:I think that currently.
the Monarchy situation can be clear.

If you get the policy from Rodotto and Julietta, you choose to become the Monarch, it's even written in the issues that your cousin suggests you become the Monarch.
only two issues can give us the Monarchy policies

But, I believe the conflict between socialism and Monarchy, not just when the nation becomes socialist since the nation can be socialist from the start, from its creation.
I believe limiting such an issue to only a Monarchist nation that becomes socialist might not be a great idea.


I believe the easter egg: Zombie attack: is the only issue that might be limited to a certain time after a nation revived, but then again, it can be gotten from modifying your costume settings, so it is not a problem.

I get where you're coming from, but I will follow the advice of the Editors to keep the monarchy question vague ;)

The issue is very specifically targeted for nations that have the monarchy policy and became socialist along the way, not from the start. It is possible to have both the monarchy and socialism policies in NationStates, and I wanted to target that particular niche with this issue draft. To stick to realism, I felt it would have to be a very fresh and recent change to make sense, namely a nation just became socialist. As choosing the socialist policy doesn't remove monarchy automatically, I came up with this issue draft's premise and validity.
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Electrum
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Postby Electrum » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:30 am

re: discussion above -- Agree with Daarwyrth. Furthermore there is real life precedent of a socialist government using the former king's endorsement to gain support, and not only that, declared him head of state (for a short while anyways). Issue looks good, and the phrase "equalise the royal family out of their palaces" really made me laugh.
Last edited by Electrum on Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Daarwyrth
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Daarwyrth » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:42 am

Electrum wrote:re: discussion above -- Agree with Daarwyrth. Furthermore there is real life precedent of a socialist government using the former king's endorsement to gain support, and not only that, declared him head of state (for a short while anyways). Issue looks good, and the phrase "equalise the royal family out of their palaces" really made me laugh.

Thanks, I'm really glad to hear that! :D
Last edited by Daarwyrth on Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Daarwyrth
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Daarwyrth » Sun May 02, 2021 4:39 pm

Moving this draft to last call! Final comments and feedback would be appreciated, and I'll be looking to submit this somewhere in the weekend most likely :)
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Anarchy

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Fri May 07, 2021 4:40 pm

Not bad this issue.

Are the throws of socialist ecstacy some sort of orgasmically soft red velvet blankets?

Or do you perhaps mean "throes"? :p
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Fri May 07, 2021 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Daarwyrth
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Daarwyrth » Fri May 07, 2021 4:49 pm

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Not bad this issue.

Are the throws of socialist ecstacy some sort of orgasmically soft red velvet blankets?

Or do you perhaps mean "throes"? :p

Thank you, and while I wouldn’t mind having some unimaginably soft red velvet blankets right now... "throes" was indeed the word I meant ;) thanks for catching it!
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Daarwyrth
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Daarwyrth » Sat May 08, 2021 4:58 am

The issue has been submitted! Thanks all for your commentary and feedback :D
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Australian rePublic
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Australian rePublic » Sat May 08, 2021 6:33 am

Good luck
If you're against political parties who support the CCP, then vote against the Australian Labor Party
New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Aardern is so deeply in love with human rights and Muslim lives that she's actively going out of her way to refuse to acknowledge China's persecution of Uyghurs. It's impossible to love human rights & Muslim lives more than that!
Until if and when the Spanish language evolves to allow for gender-neutrality to not be impossible, (which will take at least centuries), the concept of "LatinX" is completely ridiculous
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