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A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.

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The Grim Reaper
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Grim Reaper » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:55 am

@Aussie: the description explicitly refers to children and this issue would read exceptionally poorly if it couldn't distinguish between vat-grown newborn adults and vat-grown veteran adults. I think the no-vat policy is the best way to make the issue work.

@OP: good change to explain that the hiding behaviour is common for kids. However, I think a little more explication might be useful given that it's such a weird fact to take for granted. In the hindsight of having read your explanation, the description as it stands now makes sense, but I still feel like someone coming across the issue for the first time might not immediately accept the fact.

This could be made slightly easier a pill to swallow by demonstrating to the reader the justification you showed in your post - that kids think of the flames as a 'monster' which wants to find them and hurt them, rather than a natural phenomenon. This way, the reader wouldn't have to try and justify it in their own head that children often hide from flames in closets.

I also merged in the rescue to make space for the explanation, which I include for demonstrative purposes here.

i.e. "Yesterday, a house in @@CAPITAL@@ caught fire while two children were home alone. A neighbor spotted the blaze and alerted firefighters, who rescued the children from a closet in which they were trying to hide from the flames. [explanation that hiding is common behaviour]." The explanation could go something like "In the following press conference, Fire Chief @@@@ explained that many children unfamiliar with fire view it as a predator to hide from, rather than something that can be escaped."
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Baggieland
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Baggieland » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:19 pm

The Grim Reaper wrote:the description explicitly refers to children and this issue would read exceptionally poorly if it couldn't distinguish between vat-grown newborn adults and vat-grown veteran adults. I think the no-vat policy is the best way to make the issue work.

How can you tell if the citizens emerge as children or adults in nations which have vats?

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Anarchy

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:56 am

As a matter of precedent, the vat people policy doesn't exclude issues that involve children.
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:48 pm

Baggieland wrote:The vat policy only states that citizens are "born" in vats, and doesn't expand the definition beyond that. Some nations' citizens will come out of the vats as babies, others as adults, some will come out of the vats all educated, others with no education.

How do you emerge from a vat educated?
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Apabeossie
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Apabeossie » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:59 pm

I think I'm not including "no vats" in the validity yet, though I will if needed.
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:51 am

While this may indeed be something children do, I'd still say it only seems likely for very young children - so if you really want to put a stop to it, you really need to start educating children as soon as possible. Which sounds like there should be some kind of humorous potential to explore about the idea of toddlers learning fire safety drills in kindergarten.

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Baggieland
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Postby Baggieland » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:54 am

Verdant Haven wrote:dinnertime in @@NAME@@ is marked by hundreds of children running to escape the flames of their parents' cooking ranges


Trotterdam wrote:Which sounds like there should be some kind of humorous potential to explore about the idea of toddlers learning fire safety drills in kindergarten.


How about changing the above effect line to:

Stop-drop-and-roll has replaced hide-and-seek as kindergartners favourite playtime game

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:23 am

You still haven't specified how old the children were
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Apabeossie
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Apabeossie » Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:23 am

Baggieland wrote:
Verdant Haven wrote:dinnertime in @@NAME@@ is marked by hundreds of children running to escape the flames of their parents' cooking ranges


Trotterdam wrote:Which sounds like there should be some kind of humorous potential to explore about the idea of toddlers learning fire safety drills in kindergarten.


How about changing the above effect line to:

Stop-drop-and-roll has replaced hide-and-seek as kindergartners favourite playtime game

changed. thanks.
Australian rePublic wrote:You still haven't specified how old the children were

oh. XD Fixed that as well.
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Yahlia wrote:Surely everyone likes penguins? Who doesn't like penguins? I refuse to believe there are people out there who have an opinion of them worse than 'indifferent'

Einswenn wrote:For me it always was and is obscure why would people be so blind and shortsighted to allow themselves unsolicited hate. I’ve already posted this before: take care of your own life, live your own life, and don’t tell the others how they should live theirs

Dizgovzy wrote:Please go read a book or play outside instead of spending your youth behind a computer screen. Don’t waste your time on this site.

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Apabeossie
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Postby Apabeossie » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:20 am

any more opinions?
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“Even the darkest night will end and the sun will rise.” -Les Mis Finale

Yahlia wrote:Surely everyone likes penguins? Who doesn't like penguins? I refuse to believe there are people out there who have an opinion of them worse than 'indifferent'

Einswenn wrote:For me it always was and is obscure why would people be so blind and shortsighted to allow themselves unsolicited hate. I’ve already posted this before: take care of your own life, live your own life, and don’t tell the others how they should live theirs

Dizgovzy wrote:Please go read a book or play outside instead of spending your youth behind a computer screen. Don’t waste your time on this site.

New Skandenivia wrote:AFAB ❌
AMAB ❌
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:33 am

Two 7 y/o children? Were they twins?
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All in-character posts are fictional and have no actual connection to any real governments
You don't appreciate the good police officers until you've lived amongst the dregs of society and/or had them as customers
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:38 am

You want more fire education in schools? What happens in superpoor countries where most kids don't go to school? My grandmother never went to school. And whilst Greece is now developed enough to allow all kids to go to school, not every country fits that criteria. Most issues don't take into account nations which are too poor for kids to go to school, and I think it's about time we started taking that into account, perhaps starting with this issue
Hard-Core Centrist. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.
All in-character posts are fictional and have no actual connection to any real governments
You don't appreciate the good police officers until you've lived amongst the dregs of society and/or had them as customers
From Greek ancestry Orthodox Christian
Issues and WA Proposals Written By Me |Issue Ideas You Can Steal
I want to commission infrastructure in Australia in real life, if you can help me, please telegram me. I am dead serious

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Apabeossie
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Founded: Jun 04, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Apabeossie » Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:41 am

Australian rePublic wrote:You want more fire education in schools? What happens in superpoor countries where most kids don't go to school? My grandmother never went to school. And whilst Greece is now developed enough to allow all kids to go to school, not every country fits that criteria. Most issues don't take into account nations which are too poor for kids to go to school, and I think it's about time we started taking that into account, perhaps starting with this issue

I think picking the issues means that you're going to help the superpoor kids go to school.
Australian rePublic wrote:Two 7 y/o children? Were they twins?

I guess? maybe. Does it actually matter though?
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“Even the darkest night will end and the sun will rise.” -Les Mis Finale

Yahlia wrote:Surely everyone likes penguins? Who doesn't like penguins? I refuse to believe there are people out there who have an opinion of them worse than 'indifferent'

Einswenn wrote:For me it always was and is obscure why would people be so blind and shortsighted to allow themselves unsolicited hate. I’ve already posted this before: take care of your own life, live your own life, and don’t tell the others how they should live theirs

Dizgovzy wrote:Please go read a book or play outside instead of spending your youth behind a computer screen. Don’t waste your time on this site.

New Skandenivia wrote:AFAB ❌
AMAB ❌
Apab ✅

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Apabeossie
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Postby Apabeossie » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:33 am

Any other opinions before I set this to last call?
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“Even the darkest night will end and the sun will rise.” -Les Mis Finale

Yahlia wrote:Surely everyone likes penguins? Who doesn't like penguins? I refuse to believe there are people out there who have an opinion of them worse than 'indifferent'

Einswenn wrote:For me it always was and is obscure why would people be so blind and shortsighted to allow themselves unsolicited hate. I’ve already posted this before: take care of your own life, live your own life, and don’t tell the others how they should live theirs

Dizgovzy wrote:Please go read a book or play outside instead of spending your youth behind a computer screen. Don’t waste your time on this site.

New Skandenivia wrote:AFAB ❌
AMAB ❌
Apab ✅

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:04 am

Apabeossie wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:You want more fire education in schools? What happens in superpoor countries where most kids don't go to school? My grandmother never went to school. And whilst Greece is now developed enough to allow all kids to go to school, not every country fits that criteria. Most issues don't take into account nations which are too poor for kids to go to school, and I think it's about time we started taking that into account, perhaps starting with this issue

I think picking the issues means that you're going to help the superpoor kids go to school.

Not that simply. If countries could afford to do that, they would. Not the issue to discuss how to do that
Hard-Core Centrist. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right.
All in-character posts are fictional and have no actual connection to any real governments
You don't appreciate the good police officers until you've lived amongst the dregs of society and/or had them as customers
From Greek ancestry Orthodox Christian
Issues and WA Proposals Written By Me |Issue Ideas You Can Steal
I want to commission infrastructure in Australia in real life, if you can help me, please telegram me. I am dead serious

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Apabeossie
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Founded: Jun 04, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Apabeossie » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:33 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Apabeossie wrote:I think picking the issues means that you're going to help the superpoor kids go to school.

Not that simply. If countries could afford to do that, they would. Not the issue to discuss how to do that

I guess you'll have to discuss with the more qualified issue editors on that subject. Could be its own issue(unless there's an overlap) about where the government is too poor to fund anything.
---------------------------
I have set this to last call, any more opinions on the issue itself?
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“Even the darkest night will end and the sun will rise.” -Les Mis Finale

Yahlia wrote:Surely everyone likes penguins? Who doesn't like penguins? I refuse to believe there are people out there who have an opinion of them worse than 'indifferent'

Einswenn wrote:For me it always was and is obscure why would people be so blind and shortsighted to allow themselves unsolicited hate. I’ve already posted this before: take care of your own life, live your own life, and don’t tell the others how they should live theirs

Dizgovzy wrote:Please go read a book or play outside instead of spending your youth behind a computer screen. Don’t waste your time on this site.

New Skandenivia wrote:AFAB ❌
AMAB ❌
Apab ✅

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Anarchy

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:48 am

Description: Yesterday, a house in @@CAPITAL@@ caught fire while two 7-year-old children were home alone. A neighbor spotted the blaze and alerted firefighters, who found the children in a closet trying to hide from the flames. Fortunately, the children were rescued before they were suffocated by the smoke. In the following press conference, Fire Chief @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_1@@ @@RANDOMLASTNAME_1@@ explained that many children unfamiliar with fire can view it as a predator to hide from, rather than something that can be escaped.


The underlined bit here doesn't belong in the opening, but could be incorporated into the first option, though don't let the options get too long either.


Option 1: “This is clearly an educational issue.”


Use straight quotes rather than curved ones. A sentence of speech that precedes the speaker should end in a comma not a full stop.

says Chief @@RANDOMLASTNAME_1@@, holding up a weighty fire safety manual. “If we teach kids how to properly evacuate, things like this won’t happen again! @@LEADER@@, you should add fire safety into the national curriculum. You should also provide grants for us – the fire department, so we can send fire engines around to schools and teach kids to get out when they see a fire!”


The exclamation mark is not justifiable.

The option as a whole needs some humour. Reduce the number of suggested actions, and instead add some entertainment value to the option.

Result: stop-drop-and-roll has replaced hide-and-seek as kindergartners' favorite playtime game.


Who says hide and seek was their favourite game before?

Option 2: “Wait, the parents left children ALONE at home??” cries @@RANDOMNAME@@, with @@HIS@@ tired and uninterested children behind @@HIM@@ on a leash. “If those uncaring parents hadn’t left their kids at home alone, this situation would have never happened! Children can’t take care of themselves! They should have at least one adult protector with them 24/7 who can get them out in an emergency. It's the only way to keep everyone safe. It’s the only way to keep everyone safe.”


This is 80% too many words to convey this amount of information. Trim it down, add some humour. Never use double question marks, ever.

Result: Kids’ parties are often ruined by wet-blanket adults hanging around.


That one works.

Option 3: “As usual, technology has the best answer!” claims @@RANDOMNAME@@, head of a technology company. Allow me to introduce our new invention, the auto firefighter! This robot can spot any fires in the house and swiftly remove them with a fire extinguisher inside! That way, you don’t need to worry about fires getting too large to threaten lives in the first place. What could go wrong?

Result: Families often have their birthday cakes sprayed with powder.


Don't invent new technologies where better ones already exist.

Smoke detectors linked to sprinkler systems work better than extinguisher-wielding robots.

Option 4: "Allow me to ask a question: why do we care?" mutters renowned libertarian @@RANDOMNAME@@. "This clearly happened because the children were stupid enough to hide in the closet. It's their fault for not being smart enough! The government should stop wasting money trying to protect children - the kids should know better."


This option is a dismissal of the issue, and so is identical to the dismiss button.
editors like linguistic ambiguity more than most people

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Apabeossie
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Apabeossie » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:57 pm

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Use straight quotes rather than curved ones. A sentence of speech that precedes the speaker should end in a comma not a full stop.

okay.
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
The exclamation mark is not justifiable.

For the end of the sentence, right?
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:The option as a whole needs some humour. Reduce the number of suggested actions, and instead add some entertainment value to the option.

ok.
(I'm not really good at humorous writing. Perhaps I can add some tone-deaf siren noise-making or telling leader to cover their mouth and nose and follow the fire chief, but that's all I can think of.)

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
Result: stop-drop-and-roll has replaced hide-and-seek as kindergartners' favorite playtime game.


Who says hide and seek was their favourite game before?

It is an assumption but it's a fairly minor one in my opinion so I'd just leave it as it is.
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
Option 2: “Wait, the parents left children ALONE at home??” cries @@RANDOMNAME@@, with @@HIS@@ tired and uninterested children behind @@HIM@@ on a leash. “If those uncaring parents hadn’t left their kids at home alone, this situation would have never happened! Children can’t take care of themselves! They should have at least one adult protector with them 24/7 who can get them out in an emergency. It's the only way to keep everyone safe. It’s the only way to keep everyone safe.”


This is 80% too many words to convey this amount of information. Trim it down, add some humour. Never use double question marks, ever.

okay. (I don't really know how to trim that down. Removed the obvious repeat though.)
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
Option 3: “As usual, technology has the best answer!” claims @@RANDOMNAME@@, head of a technology company. Allow me to introduce our new invention, the auto firefighter! This robot can spot any fires in the house and swiftly remove them with a fire extinguisher inside! That way, you don’t need to worry about fires getting too large to threaten lives in the first place. What could go wrong?

Result: Families often have their birthday cakes sprayed with powder.


Don't invent new technologies where better ones already exist.

Smoke detectors linked to sprinkler systems work better than extinguisher-wielding robots.

ok. I guess I can drop that option.
so no more powder-sprayed cakes :(
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
Option 4: "Allow me to ask a question: why do we care?" mutters renowned libertarian @@RANDOMNAME@@. "This clearly happened because the children were stupid enough to hide in the closet. It's their fault for not being smart enough! The government should stop wasting money trying to protect children - the kids should know better."


This option is a dismissal of the issue, and so is identical to the dismiss button.

This option means that the nation is going to divert funding away from already existing safety programs.
Last edited by Apabeossie on Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yahlia wrote:Surely everyone likes penguins? Who doesn't like penguins? I refuse to believe there are people out there who have an opinion of them worse than 'indifferent'

Einswenn wrote:For me it always was and is obscure why would people be so blind and shortsighted to allow themselves unsolicited hate. I’ve already posted this before: take care of your own life, live your own life, and don’t tell the others how they should live theirs

Dizgovzy wrote:Please go read a book or play outside instead of spending your youth behind a computer screen. Don’t waste your time on this site.

New Skandenivia wrote:AFAB ❌
AMAB ❌
Apab ✅

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Baggieland
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Founded: May 27, 2013
Father Knows Best State

Postby Baggieland » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:28 pm

Apabeossie wrote:Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
Result: stop-drop-and-roll has replaced hide-and-seek as kindergartners' favorite playtime game.


Who says hide and seek was their favourite game before?

It is an assumption but it's a fairly minor one in my opinion so I'd just leave it as it is.


You can just change it to "a playground game".

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Apabeossie
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Founded: Jun 04, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Apabeossie » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:08 am

Baggieland wrote:
Apabeossie wrote:Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
Result: stop-drop-and-roll has replaced hide-and-seek as kindergartners' favorite playtime game.


Who says hide and seek was their favourite game before?

It is an assumption but it's a fairly minor one in my opinion so I'd just leave it as it is.


You can just change it to "a playground game".

I guess "I'll go with stop-drop-and-roll is kindergartners' favorite playtime game" for now.
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“Even the darkest night will end and the sun will rise.” -Les Mis Finale

Yahlia wrote:Surely everyone likes penguins? Who doesn't like penguins? I refuse to believe there are people out there who have an opinion of them worse than 'indifferent'

Einswenn wrote:For me it always was and is obscure why would people be so blind and shortsighted to allow themselves unsolicited hate. I’ve already posted this before: take care of your own life, live your own life, and don’t tell the others how they should live theirs

Dizgovzy wrote:Please go read a book or play outside instead of spending your youth behind a computer screen. Don’t waste your time on this site.

New Skandenivia wrote:AFAB ❌
AMAB ❌
Apab ✅

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Uan aa Boa
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Uan aa Boa » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:26 am

I'm not sure this one really offers a dilemma. Options 1 and 2 are both non-controversial common sense and it seems strange to be asked to choose one or the other.

Australian rePublic wrote:You want more fire education in schools? What happens in superpoor countries where most kids don't go to school? My grandmother never went to school. And whilst Greece is now developed enough to allow all kids to go to school, not every country fits that criteria. Most issues don't take into account nations which are too poor for kids to go to school, and I think it's about time we started taking that into account, perhaps starting with this issue

It would be far from the first issue that tacitly assumes a First World setting. It's odd that we're giving more thought to representing a society that grows people in vats than to representing developing countries. Practically speaking, since a number of issues allow the abolition of schools perhaps that could be a policy that would filter out issues about education.

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Apabeossie
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Founded: Jun 04, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Apabeossie » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:09 pm

(Edit: sorry Uan aa boa. misunderstood.)
Last edited by Apabeossie on Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
✵ Your guide to Apabeossie ✵
“Even the darkest night will end and the sun will rise.” -Les Mis Finale

Yahlia wrote:Surely everyone likes penguins? Who doesn't like penguins? I refuse to believe there are people out there who have an opinion of them worse than 'indifferent'

Einswenn wrote:For me it always was and is obscure why would people be so blind and shortsighted to allow themselves unsolicited hate. I’ve already posted this before: take care of your own life, live your own life, and don’t tell the others how they should live theirs

Dizgovzy wrote:Please go read a book or play outside instead of spending your youth behind a computer screen. Don’t waste your time on this site.

New Skandenivia wrote:AFAB ❌
AMAB ❌
Apab ✅

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Trotterdam
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Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:37 pm

...That isn't actually what Uan aa Boa commented on?

Though if you're going to be addressing me, I'm still wondering if anyone has data on what kind of ages this tends to happens at. 7 seems rather old to me to have still not figured this out.

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Apabeossie
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Founded: Jun 04, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Apabeossie » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:21 am

Trotterdam wrote:...That isn't actually what Uan aa Boa commented on?

Though if you're going to be addressing me, I'm still wondering if anyone has data on what kind of ages this tends to happens at. 7 seems rather old to me to have still not figured this out.

I got this topic inspiration from a video I saw at school, and the kids in the video didn't seem to be that young, perhaps around 7 or 8. (and yeah since they aren't the actual children who did this so it might be inaccurate)
✵ Your guide to Apabeossie ✵
“Even the darkest night will end and the sun will rise.” -Les Mis Finale

Yahlia wrote:Surely everyone likes penguins? Who doesn't like penguins? I refuse to believe there are people out there who have an opinion of them worse than 'indifferent'

Einswenn wrote:For me it always was and is obscure why would people be so blind and shortsighted to allow themselves unsolicited hate. I’ve already posted this before: take care of your own life, live your own life, and don’t tell the others how they should live theirs

Dizgovzy wrote:Please go read a book or play outside instead of spending your youth behind a computer screen. Don’t waste your time on this site.

New Skandenivia wrote:AFAB ❌
AMAB ❌
Apab ✅

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Trotterdam
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Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:49 am

Also, not every 7-year-old is equally smart, or has received equally-good education. I guess it's at least on the edge of plausible that some 7-year-olds would be this stupid, even if most of them wouldn't.

I mean, some adults can be pretty idiotic.

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