Description Just yesterday, @@randomname_1@@ - the elected member for Upper @@animal@@ville - unfortunately died when the new hospital @@he@@ was inspecting suffered a partial collapse. Also unfortunately, the pages of the law books seem to be absent any procedures for a politician's death, clouding the sad news from trepidation from the Upper @@animal@@ville voters, who are unsure about the fate of their electorate. Validity Democracy, No Proportional Representation
Option 1 "Look, I know it sounds just a teeny bit corrupt, but you could personally institute an 'Interim MP', someone to act in @@his_1@@ stead - just until the next election," posits @@randomanme_2@@, a devoted supporter of your party. "It wouldn't be long - our elections are pretty regular, right? - and it would save the hassle and cost of holding an interim election. Sure, some might not be happy with your decision, but that doesn't matter. I know just the candidate..." Validity All Outcome ministers who disagree with @@leader@@ have a lot of accidents
Option 2 "HELP, HELP, I'M BEING REPRESSED!" melodramatically screams Dennis @@randomlastname@@, the opposition candidate for the seat. "Strange @@men_1@@ lying on hospital beds distributing death certificates is no basis for a system of government! Just have a by-election, the same as any other proper democratic country. No-one knows who's the next candidate the people might want, so we'll have to put it to the people to find out!" Validity All Outcome a recent flu outbreak in @@capital@@ has seen by-elections across the country
Option 3 "Ahem. Actually, I know exactly who's the next candidate the people want," states Geoff Bathington, an independent candidate famously opposed to the formation of political parties. "Me! At the last election - never mind how long ago it was - I had the next most votes, so in the event of @@his_1@@ untimely passing, I should be given the role. Plus," he drops his voice to a whisper, "I'd be happy to lend your government my vote on that bill you've been trying to pass." Validity All Outcome the early bird gets the worm but the second candidate gets the seat
Option 4 "Pffft. So @@he_1@@'s dead. That doesn't affect me!" derides @@randomname@@, who lives in the electorate of Lower @@animal@@ville. "You always forget about us Lower @@animal@@ville folks. Those toffs from Upper @@animal@@ville get all the funding, and we get squat! They can do without an MP for a little while. That'll teach them." Validity All Outcome detrimental health conditions can be a political death-sentence
Title: Farewelled By-Election
Description Just yesterday, @@RANDOMNAME(1)@@ - the elected member for Upper @@ANIMAL@@ville - unfortunately died when the new hospital @@HE@@ was inspecting suffered a partial collapse. Also unfortunately, the next national election is scheduled for just a few weeks time, clouding the sad news with trepidation from the Upper @@ANIMAL@@ville voters, who are unsure about what will happen to their electorate in the meantime. Validity Democracy, No Proportional Representation, Term Limits
Option 1 "Look, I know it sounds bad, but you could just institute an 'Interim MP', someone to act in @@HIS(1)@@ stead, just until the election," posits @@RANDOMNAME(2)@@, a long-time supporter of your party. "It wouldn't be long, just a few weeks, and it would save the hassle and cost of another election. Sure, some might not be happy with your decision, but that doesn't matter. I know just the candidate..." Validity All Outcome ministers who disagree with @@LEADER@@ have a lot of accidents
Option 2 "Whoa, hey. No need to get all autocratic there," interjects @@RANDOMNAME(3)@@, the Leader of the Opposition. "Just have a by-election, same as any other proper democratic country. Strange @@MEN(1)@@, lying on hospital beds, kicking the bucket is no basis for a system of government! Noone knows who's the next candidate the people might want, so let's just have the by-election and find out." Validity All Outcome a recent flu outbreak in @@CAPITAL@@ has seen by-elections across the country
Option 3 "Ahem. Actually, I know exactly who's the next candidate the people want," states @@RANDOMNAME(4)@@, an independent member who only narrowly lost to @@RANDOMNAME(1)@@ in the last election. "Me! I was the candidate with the next most votes, so in the event of @@HIS(1)@@ untimely passing, I should be given the role." Validity All Outcome the early bird gets the worm, but the second candidate gets the seat
Option 4 "Pffft. Why do they even need an MP?" derisively asks @@RANDOMNAME(5)@@, who lives in the electorate of Lower @@ANIMAL@@ville. "Those toffs from Upper @@ANIMAL@@ville always get all the funding, and you forget about us! They can do without an MP for a couple weeks. That'll teach them." Validity All Outcome detrimental health conditions can be a political death-sentence
Title: Farewelled By-Election
Description Just yesterday, @@RANDOMNAME(1)@@ - the elected member for Upper @@ANIMAL@@ville - unfortunately died when the new hospital he was inspecting suffered a partial collapse. Also unfortunately, a previously scheduled national election was coming up in a few months, clouding the sad news with trepidation from the @@DEMONYM@@ public, who aren't keen for by-election mere months before another vote. Validity Democracy, No Proportional Representation
Option 1 "Look, I know it sounds bad, but you could just institute an 'Interim MP', someone to act in @@HIS(1)@@ stead, just until the election," posits @@RANDOMNAME(2)@@, a long-time supporter of your party. "It wouldn't be long, just a few months, and it would save the hassle and cost of another election. Sure, some might not be happy with your decision, but that doesn't matter. I know just the candidate..." Validity All Outcome ministers who disagree with @@LEADER@@ have a lot of accidents
Option 2 "Whoa, hey. No need to get all autocratic there," interjects @@RANDOMNAME(3)@@, the Leader of the Opposition. "Just have the by-election, same as we would in any other case. Strange @@MEN(1)@@, lying on hospital beds, kicking the bucket is no basis for a system of government! Noone knows who's the next candidate the people might want, so let's just have the by-election and find out." Validity All Outcome a recent flu outbreak in @@CAPITAL@@ has seen by-elections across the country
Option 3 "Ahem. Actually, I know exactly who's the next candidate the people want," states @@RANDOMNAME(4)@@, an independent member who only narrowly lost to @@RANDOMNAME(1)@@ in the last election. "Me! I was the candidate with the next most votes, so in the event of @@HIS(1)@@ untimely passing, I should be given the role." Validity All Outcome candidates who lose elections watch their opponent's health intently
Option 4 "Pffft. Why do they even need an MP?" derisively asks @@RANDOMNAME(5)@@, who lives in the electorate of Lower @@ANIMAL@@ville. "Those toffs from Upper @@ANIMAL@@ville always get all the funding, and you forget about us! They can do without an MP for a couple months. That'll teach them." Validity All Outcome MPs insist they are still fit for office as they lay on their deathbeads
Title: An Untimely Resignation
Description Last week, @@RANDOMNAME(1)@@, your Minister for Transport announced @@HIS(1)@@ intention to resign, following a period of ill health. Unfortunately, a previously scheduled national election was coming up in a few months, clouding the announcement with trepidation from the @@DEMONYM@@ public, who aren't keen for by-election mere months before another vote. Validity Democracy, possibly Term Limits
Option 1 "Look, I know it sounds bad, but you could just institute an 'Interim Minister', someone to act in @@HIS(1)@@ stead, just until the election," posits @@RANDOMNAME(2)@@, a long-time supporter of your party. "It wouldn't be long, just a few months, and it would save the hassle and cost of another election. Sure, some might not be happy with your decision, but that doesn't matter. I know just the candidate..." Validity All Outcome ministers are forced into retirement so @@LEADER@@ can pick and choose members of parliament
Option 2 "Whoa, hey. No need to get all autocratic there," interjects @@RANDOMNAME(3)@@, the Leader of the Opposition. "Just have the by-election, same as we would in any other case. Strange @@MEN(1)@@, lying on hospital beds distributing resignation letters is no basis for a system of government! Noone knows who's the next candidate the people might want, so let's just have the by-election and find out." Validity All Outcome a recent flu outbreak in @@CAPITAL@@ has seen by-elections across the country
Option 3 "Ahem. Actually, I know exactly who's the next candidate the people want," states @@RANDOMNAME(3)@@, an independent member who only narrowly lost to @@RANDOMNAME(1)@@ in the last election. "Me! I was the candidate with the next most votes, so in the event of @@HIS(1)@@ untimely resignation, I should be given the role." Validity All Outcome candidates who lose elections watch their opponent's health intently
SherpDaWerp wrote:Surprised we don't have any issues around ministers resigning! I searched the spoiler thread for resign - all that came up was people saying "This person should resign!".
Title: An Untimely Resignation
Description Last week, @@RANDOMNAME(1)@@, your Minister for Transport announced @@HIS(1)@@ intention to resign, following a period of ill health. Unfortunately, a previously scheduled national election was coming up in a few months, clouding the announcement with trepidation from the @@DEMONYM@@ public, who aren't keen for by-election mere months before another vote. Validity Democracy, possibly Term Limits
Option 1 "Look, I know it sounds bad, but you could just institute an 'Interim Minister', someone to act in @@HIS(1)@@ stead, just until the election," posits @@RANDOMNAME(2)@@, a long-time supporter of your party. "It wouldn't be long, just a few months, and it would save the hassle and cost of another election. Sure, some might not be happy with your decision, but that doesn't matter. I know just the candidate..." Validity All Outcome ministers are forced into retirement so @@LEADER@@ can pick and choose members of parliament
Option 2 "Whoa, hey. No need to get all autocratic there," interjects @@RANDOMNAME(3)@@, the Leader of the Opposition. "Just have the by-election, same as we would in any other case. Strange @@MEN(1)@@, lying on hospital beds distributing resignation letters is no basis for a system of government! Noone knows who's the next candidate the people might want, so let's just have the by-election and find out." Validity All Outcome a recent flu outbreak in @@CAPITAL@@ has seen by-elections across the country
Option 3 "Ahem. Actually, I know exactly who's the next candidate the people want," states @@RANDOMNAME(3)@@, an independent member who only narrowly lost to @@RANDOMNAME(1)@@ in the last election. "Me! I was the candidate with the next most votes, so in the event of @@HIS(1)@@ untimely resignation, I should be given the role." Validity All Outcome candidates who lose elections watch their opponent's health intently
The first one should not lead to that outcome, and there should be another that does. However, this has potential.
(By the way, would you care to check out my issue, Draft 2 “We, the Mighty, do our Duty?”)
This could do as a bit of a "crazy option"... I'll consider making an option 4.
Australian rePublic wrote:This is why democracies have deputies...
The idea of this is buried somewhere in Option 1. But you've forced me to think about the base premise and I've realised that as a "Minister" it doesn't really mean anything - you can just appoint another one of the elected MPs as a minster. The question should be more about how to replace the elected member, not about how to replace the minister. I'll try to add an option 4 as well as emphasising the "member" part in the next draft.
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:34 pm
by Trotterdam
SherpDaWerp wrote:But you've forced me to think about the base premise and I've realised that as a "Minister" it doesn't really mean anything - you can just appoint another one of the elected MPs as a minster. The question should be more about how to replace the elected member, not about how to replace the minister. I'll try to add an option 4 as well as emphasising the "member" part in the next draft.
To be fair, the voting public may have supported a particular politician as a member of parliament in general without believing that politician to be specifically qualified to deal with matters of transport in particular.
Then again, as far as I know, ministerial positions aren't usually directly elected in most democracies to begin with. At least, I haven't seen them on the ballots where I live.
SherpDaWerp wrote:But you've forced me to think about the base premise and I've realised that as a "Minister" it doesn't really mean anything - you can just appoint another one of the elected MPs as a minster. The question should be more about how to replace the elected member, not about how to replace the minister. I'll try to add an option 4 as well as emphasising the "member" part in the next draft.
To be fair, the voting public may have supported a particular politician as a member of parliament in general without believing that politician to be specifically qualified to deal with matters of transport in particular.
Then again, as far as I know, ministerial positions aren't usually directly elected in most democracies to begin with. At least, I haven't seen them on the ballots where I live.
Well, yeah. In the Australian system, and I suspect in most other democratic countries, what would happen is the PM would just choose another elected MP to be the "Minister for Transport", making my original premise a bit wonky. It's now a lot more about how to replace the elected MP in their status as elected MP, because someone else can always be the transport minister.
Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:14 pm
by Trotterdam
SherpDaWerp wrote:It's now a lot more about how to replace the elected MP in their status as elected MP,
This just makes "just don't" even more of an obvious answer. There are several hundred people in Parliament, one more or less isn't going to make a huge difference.
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:01 am
by Australian rePublic
Usually the MP would be forced to just wait till the election to resign, whether they want to or not. It'd be better if he/she was unable to serve due to death, incarceration, dimentia, etc. Option 1- what if the person you desire to appoint is from the opposition party? Option 4- The consequences of having no MP go far, far, far beyond just people lying in hospital beds. Think of the poor sods who get no representation because their MP happens to be the speaker of the house. Maybe look into that. Also, lying in hospital doesn't make necasserily make you unable to serve. A person recovering from knee surgery, for example, is still able to pull out their laptop and work
SherpDaWerp wrote:It's now a lot more about how to replace the elected MP in their status as elected MP,
This just makes "just don't" even more of an obvious answer. There are several hundred people in Parliament, one more or less isn't going to make a huge difference.
Option 4 is exactly that.
Australian rePublic wrote:Usually the MP would be forced to just wait till the election to resign, whether they want to or not. It'd be better if he/she was unable to serve due to death, incarceration, dimentia, etc.
That's a good point, so the MP is now unfortunately deceased.
Australian rePublic wrote:Option 1- what if the person you desire to appoint is from the opposition party?
Then you appoint them? You are still "picking and choosing members of parliament", and nowhere in the option does it say you have to choose someone from your party.
Australian rePublic wrote:Option 4- The consequences of having no MP go far, far, far beyond just people lying in hospital beds. Think of the poor sods who get no representation because their MP happens to be the speaker of the house. Maybe look into that. Also, lying in hospital doesn't make necasserily make you unable to serve. A person recovering from knee surgery, for example, is still able to pull out their laptop and work
If you want to think of the poor sods who get no representation, don't choose option 4. The MP in question isn't a minister anymore, nor are they a Speaker or anything else important. Just an MP. And as you pointed out above, it's better if they're deceased because then there's absolutely no question of whether they can still do their jobs.
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:43 pm
by Trotterdam
Having members of parliament represent specific districts would not apply in a nation with proportional representation.
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:49 pm
by SherpDaWerp
Trotterdam wrote:Having members of parliament represent specific districts would not apply in a nation with proportional representation.
Yeah ok. I'll replace the possible Term Limits validity check with a Proportional Representation one.
Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:51 am
by Australian rePublic
If the guy was terminally ill, they would have time to find a planned replacement. You should have him die a sudden death
Trotterdam wrote:Having members of parliament represent specific districts would not apply in a nation with proportional representation.
It actually does. Look at the UK, Australia, etc.
Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:06 am
by Candlewhisper Archive
The UK doesn't have PR.
I don't know too much about Australia, but I understand that casual vacancies are filled by nomination or recount and redistribution, as the concept of a local by-election is meaningless in whole-country PR.
Regardless, this should be an issue for nations WITHOUT proportional representation.
Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:25 am
by Trotterdam
Australia uses "single transferable vote", which is a compromise between proportional representation and district representation: each district has several seats, instead of just one, and those seats are allocated proportionally, but because of the relatively small number of seats per district, rounding errors over the districts accumulate to mean the overall parliament won't be as accurately proportional as under a more pure district-blind proportional representation system. Furthermore, Australia uses this system only for the upper house (Senate), and not for the lower house (House of Representatives), which still uses single-seat electoral districts which are not proportional at all.
Single transferable vote is a pretty rare system in real life. Wikipedia lists only 9 nations that use it, and some of those only use it in some provincial elections rather than nationally. Currently no NationStates issues specifically institute a policy of using single transferable vote, and there is probably no call to add one.
Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:32 am
by Visorax
I don't care about the issue, but the first option's result has to be published.
Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:09 pm
by SherpDaWerp
Trotterdam wrote:Having members of parliament represent specific districts would not apply in a nation with proportional representation.
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Regardless, this should be an issue for nations WITHOUT proportional representation.
Sorry, brain fart. I should have put No Proportional Representation. Fixed!
Australian rePublic wrote:If the guy was terminally ill, they would have time to find a planned replacement. You should have him die a sudden death
Ok. It's now a construction accident - @@HE@@ was inspecting a new hospital.
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:32 pm
by SherpDaWerp
Alright, bumping this (and re-doing Option 1's effect line) while I re-write the re-write of my other draft...
Any more feedback here? I feel like this is a good issue so far.
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:13 pm
by Australian rePublic
Dying whilst building a hospital. Ha. That's how my grandfather died. This was a significant triggerer of my dad's depression
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:52 pm
by SherpDaWerp
Australian rePublic wrote:Dying whilst building a hospital. Ha. That's how my grandfather died. This was a significant triggerer of my dad's depression
Sorry to hear that? I tried to make it deliberately ironic that it was a hospital inspection, rather than a school or a library.
Australian rePublic wrote:Dying whilst building a hospital. Ha. That's how my grandfather died. This was a significant triggerer of my dad's depression
Sorry to hear that? I tried to make it deliberately ironic that it was a hospital inspection, rather than a school or a library.
Australian rePublic wrote:Dying whilst building a hospital. Ha. That's how my grandfather died. This was a significant triggerer of my dad's depression
Sorry to hear that? I tried to make it deliberately ironic that it was a hospital inspection, rather than a school or a library.
Irony? In the UK, one prominent politician during the early 19th century died due to being run over by a train while attending the inaugural run of its railway... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opening_o ... er_Railway
SherpDaWerp wrote:Sorry to hear that? I tried to make it deliberately ironic that it was a hospital inspection, rather than a school or a library.
Irony? In the UK, one prominent politician during the early 19th century died due to being run over by a train while attending the inaugural run of its railway... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opening_o ... er_Railway
I swear I've seen that fact before... Maybe in some "horrible histories" type kids book?
Also, the title has been changed to An Untimely Termination, which has a triple-meaning:
bumping this back from the bottom of Page 2 for some weekend feedback. To me, this looks almost submittable (it's roughly at the point where I submitted "Introducing Altengarten?" and that's just been published...), but more opinions always help. If this drops back down to page 2 again without significant discussion, I'll probably just submit it.
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:04 pm