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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:42 pm
by East Gondwana
Trotterdam wrote:
Pangurstan wrote:What about sun bears?
They live in the rainforest, so ironically, they might not see that much sun.

They don't need sun because they're so bright and warm all by themselves

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:16 am
by Candlewhisper Archive
Trotterdam wrote:I don't care that much about weather. It's nice to have, but I'm trying to make a nation that's good across-the-board, not one that maximizes one thing to the exclusion of everything else. Plus, the game's simplistic "sunny weather is better" interpretation is questionable anyway. Farmers need rain occasionally, and thunderstorms are cool, and kids like playing in the snow.


NS stats unrealistic? NEVER!

Now I'm off to eat a hundred bananas, because that's what healthy people do.

#2-10: Public Education (Y) vs Public Transport (X)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:35 pm
by Valentine Z
Sorry for the delay, but here's the next one! Public Education vs Public Transport!

Linear-Linear:
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Log-Log:
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So... what do we have here? Another strong correlation! Though, of course, not as strong as the previous one. Let's look into it deeper.

There is a general increase between Public Education and Public Transport, so if you have a government willing to spend large amounts of their budget on Public Education, they will do the same with Public Transports as well! Let's look at some exceptions, of course.

Out of the data appended, 249 nations are below 1700th for Public Transport.

Only 132 nations are below 1700th (Top 1%) for Public Transport AND Public Education. Some of the exceptions below:
  • Ransium at it again with 8877.50 / 909th for Public Transport, and -10.95 / 169228th for Public Education!
  • Mad Citizens at 7938.64 / 1266th for Public Transport, and -21.91 / 170224th for Public Education.
  • 6 nations with < 1700th for Public Transport, but less than 1000 score for Public Education.

The opposite can happen.
  • Tweekia at -30.98 / 170408th for Public Transport, and 26646.70 / 639th for Public Education.
  • Nova Prussia at -32.86 / 170398th for Public Transport, and 33291.61 / 271st for Public Education.
  • 11 nations with < 1700th for Public Education, but less than 1000 score for Public Transport.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:01 pm
by Ransium
Glad I can consistently defy your correlations :p

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:08 pm
by Valentine Z
Ransium wrote:Glad I can consistently defy your correlations :p

Maybe minus Public Transport vs Public Healthcare. 2 out of 3 defied, though, 2 out of 3. :clap:

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:31 am
by Bears Armed
Valentine Z wrote:There is a general increase between Public Education and Public Transport, so if you have a government willing to spend large amounts of their budget on Public Education, they will do the same with Public Transports as well! Let's look at some exceptions, of course.

Out of the data appended, 249 nations are below 1700th for Public Transport.

Only 132 nations are below 1700th (Top 1%) for Public Transport AND Public Education. Some of the exceptions below:
  • Ransium at it again with 8877.50 / 909th for Public Transport, and -10.95 / 169228th for Public Education!
  • Mad Citizens at 7938.64 / 1266th for Public Transport, and -21.91 / 170224th for Public Education.
  • 6 nations with < 1700th for Public Transport, but less than 1000 score for Public Education.

The opposite can happen.
  • Tweekia at -30.98 / 170408th for Public Transport, and 26646.70 / 639th for Public Education.
  • Nova Prussia at -32.86 / 170398th for Public Transport, and 33291.61 / 271st for Public Education.
  • 11 nations with < 1700th for Public Education, but less than 1000 score for Public Transport.

For comparison: Bears Armed is in the top 08% for Public Education, bottom 01% for Public Transport...

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:01 am
by Valentine Z
Bears Armed wrote:For comparison: Bears Armed is in the top 08% for Public Education, bottom 01% for Public Transport...

WA Census Takers forgot the fact that people in your country uses bears for transport instead of the normal buses, trains, taxis, etc... They missed the bears! :P

Top 8% for Pub Education, Bottom for Pub Healthcare as well, oh noes. Err... Bear Herbs? Sorry, my jokes are unbearable...

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:07 am
by Bears Armed
Valentine Z wrote:
Bears Armed wrote:For comparison: Bears Armed is in the top 08% for Public Education, bottom 01% for Public Transport...

WA Census Takers forgot the fact that people in your country uses bears for transport instead of the normal buses, trains, taxis, etc...

In the sense that most of urrs generally prefer to walk, rather than to rely on machines, and often aren't very interested in long-distance travel, yes.
Also, the survey seems to consider only state-organised systems as 'public' and thus to ignore the possibility of commercially-run railways... which is what this nation has.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:09 am
by Valentine Z
Bears Armed wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:WA Census Takers forgot the fact that people in your country uses bears for transport instead of the normal buses, trains, taxis, etc...

In the sense that most of urrs generally prefer to walk, rather than to rely on machines, and often aren't very interested in long-distance travel, yes.
Also, the survey seems to consider only state-organised systems as 'public' and thus to ignore the possibility of commercially-run railways... which is what this nation has.

Huh... never thought of that last part! Makes sense, actually... Maybe there is no state-run public transport, but there are still commercially-run public transport. They're owned by private companies, but technically still public transport if these companies allow everyone to use it instead of "Umbrella Corp's Employees Only!"

At least... I think so! ^^;

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:27 pm
by Trotterdam
Yeah, I'd consider it "public transport" even if a private company is running it. That's a nuance the game can't currently model. (Conversely, there are also many "industry sectors" which are assumed to be privately-run by default, and while it's possible for a nation to have wholly or partly state-owned industry, that's a blanket effect that applies to the whole economy, without the simulation granularity to just nationalize one industry while keeping others privatized.)

Though in reality every viable public transportation system (except maybe taxis, which are ridiculously expensive) is going to have at least a bit of government support in the form of zoning bus stops, building railways or at least setting aside suitable areas of land for them, etc., even if private companies are operating the actual vehicles.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:42 am
by Angshire
Wow, it seems like I have a lot of suggestions! Since I really liked that original one with Economy vs. Economic Freedom, I thought of a couple others.

1.) Civil Rights vs Economic Freedom
2.) Political Freedom vs Economic Freedom
3.) Corruption vs Economic Freedom

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:15 am
by Valentine Z
Angshire wrote:Wow, it seems like I have a lot of suggestions! Since I really liked that original one with Economy vs. Economic Freedom, I thought of a couple others.

1.) Civil Rights vs Economic Freedom
2.) Political Freedom vs Economic Freedom
3.) Corruption vs Economic Freedom

Added! ^^

#2-11: Public Healthcare (Y) vs Public Transport (X)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:29 am
by Valentine Z
Sorry for the delay! I have been... I have been sleeping too damn hard for these past few days! Here's the next comparison!

Linear-Linear:
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Linear-Log:
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Log-Linear:
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Log-Log:
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A stronger correlation here, it seems! So... if your government spends more on Public Transport, there's a higher chance that they will also spend on Public Healthcare! This time, Ransium is no longer the exception, at 28439.90 / 28th for Public Healthcare, and 8877.50 / 909th for Public Transport! :P

But now for the real exceptions! At first, there are 251 nations with < 1700th for Public Healthcare, 249 nations with < 1700th for Public Transport, and 163 nations with < 1700th for both.

High Healthcare (< 1700th), Low Transport (< 0 Score):
  • 2 nations - Cyrenean and Tweekia.
  • Cyrenean with 18186.99 / 267th for Public Healthcare. -38.08 / 170479th for Public Transport.
  • Tweekia with 22971.30 / 84th for Public Healthcare. -30.98 / 170408th for Public Transport.

Low Healthcare, High Transport:
  • 1 lonely nation - Wyoma! -53.57 / 170471st for Public Healthcare, 8125.61 / 1193rd for Public Transport.

Low Healthcare, Low Transport:
  • 479 nations!
  • Lowest goes to Northern Borland for both. -117.94 / 170790th for Public Healthcare, -124.94 / 170795th for Public Transport.

#2-12: Scientific Advancement (Y) vs HDI (X)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:33 am
by Valentine Z
Here’s the next one! ^^ Apologies for the seemingly inactive week. I have been… busy with other stuff, along with procrastinating on F7. Also, I have managed to convince myself to use Matplotlib for graphing and suffice to say that I might not be going back into Excel anytime soon. The symmetrical log graphs are the best part of this, because this means that you can also graph and plot negative numbers on Log scale, as you will see here. It basically treats the negative numbers as absolute, but just that they are below the horizontal axis and, well, negative. Anyway, here they are!

Linear-Linear:
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Log-Log:
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Linear-Log:
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Log-Linear:
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So, what can we see here? It seems like a positive linear correlation, except that when it approaches 95 on the HDI scale, it had a sharper increase. It seems rather exponential, if you will. My personal interpretation is that it was due to the way HDI works; HDI does not increase as drastically when it goes beyond 98, and as a result, while Scientific Advancement does not have an end and will increase at a rather consistent rate, HDI ceases to increase in large amounts.

Interesting trend, still! At least for my set of data, there are more scientifically advanced nations than primitive ones, by pure count alone across all HDIs. More nations above the x-axis, that is. There is the typical trend of the most primitive nation having the least HDI, possibly due to lack of technology to expand life expectancy, or to be literate… Maybe they still have income, but just nothing of the other two.

• 27 nations with < -500 for Scientific Advancement. Out of these nations, 12 nations have < 40 HDI.
• That means that there are 15 nations that are primitive and yet they have a decent HDI, meaning they just have people who live long, are literate, and earns a good income. Must be literal magic, I will say. That, and it is true that primitive nations can indeed have good living standards, which I will explain more later.

• 926 nations with > 500 SA, and out of these nations, 4 nations with < 40 HDI.
• A good scientifically advanced nation means that there is good HDI, but as with these 4 other nations will prove, you don’t always live long, or will be literate.

Aersoldorf has the lowest HDI at 10.17 as of the time of the trawl, with -859.59 SA.
Yaorozu has the highest HDI at 101.74, with a pretty high 714.87 SA.

Copercia has the lowest SA at -1370.79, with 21.67 HDI.
Lamborghini Murcielago has the highest SA at 1885.43, with 100.07 HDI.

In general, the higher the SA, the better the HDI. Or the higher the HDI, the more likely that you will find a scientifically advanced nation. Of course, as we have seen, exceptions still and will always apply. You can have a primitive society that, even by WA standards, have people living long, can read and write, and also earns a pretty penny in whatever industry they might be in. At the same time, a high SA will not guarantee a good HDI. Think of Cyberpunk or dystopian worlds where no matter how good and advanced the technology is, the HDI will take a nosedive if the technology is held by the big companies, or people die way too easily, or a large wealth gap, among many others.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:01 am
by Bears Armed
Valentine Z wrote:You can have a primitive society that, even by WA standards, have people living long, can read and write, and also earns a pretty penny in whatever industry they might be in.

Bears Armed fell into that category until the 'Lifespan' calculation was re-jigged to weaken the effectiveness of a wonderful Environment... and IC,of course, life-expectancy did not suddenly drop to approximately a third of its previous value overnight just because the World Survey changed its models...

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:06 am
by TalAkMaChen
I don't understand that new "log" plot. In the Y-axis it only shows two numbers (2000 and 1000), then 0 and the same as negative numbers. Log-axis should be like equally spaced in the log-space, i.e. 1000, 100, 10, 1, 0.1 -- sure, here with also values less equal zero that needs to be taken as absolute values, else the log would not be defined. Could those plots perhaps have some more labeled ticks on the y-axis to judge where these points are? I assume this is some python script you now have (or pure matplotlib?) so it should be relatively easy to implement. :)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:07 am
by Valentine Z
Bears Armed wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:You can have a primitive society that, even by WA standards, have people living long, can read and write, and also earns a pretty penny in whatever industry they might be in.

Bears Armed fell into that category until the 'Lifespan' calculation was re-jigged to weaken the effectiveness of a wonderful Environment... and IC,of course, life-expectancy did not suddenly drop to approximately a third of its previous value overnight just because the World Survey changed its models...

Top 0.2% in Primitiveness, and also keeping a Top 17% HDI? That's actually pretty neat! ^^

Still, I guess that goes to show that all the bears need is a good environment, good food, and a job they are really good at, even after the Beta. :P

TalAkMaChen wrote:I don't understand that new "log" plot. In the Y-axis it only shows two numbers (2000 and 1000), then 0 and the same as negative numbers. Log-axis should be like equally spaced in the log-space, i.e. 1000, 100, 10, 1, 0.1 -- sure, here with also values less equal zero that needs to be taken as absolute values, else the log would not be defined. Could those plots perhaps have some more labeled ticks on the y-axis to judge where these points are? I assume this is some python script you now have (or pure matplotlib?) so it should be relatively easy to implement. :)

Oh yeah, about that one... it is actually spaced equally and the ticks are logarithmic in nature. It just so happens that the ticks that I was intending to use doesn't seem to work too well on my end.

Image


I have tried this on another entirely different analysis, and the tick marks are there as intended. However, this thing does not work properly when Negative Numbers and Symlog are involved. I have tried various other methods, but ultimately gave up and used something else:

plt.yscale("symlog") # y-axis in Symmetrical Log - accepts 0 and negative numbers.
ax.set_ylim([-1400., 2000.]) # Limit y-axis from -1400 to 2000.
ax.yaxis.set_major_locator(MultipleLocator(1000)) # Major tick at every 1000 mark.
ax.yaxis.set_major_formatter(FormatStrFormatter('%d')) # Formatting.

ax.yaxis.set_minor_locator(MultipleLocator(10)) # Minor tick at every 10 mark.


I'm aware that there are perhaps other methods, but I have spent too much time and so it looks good enough for now. I will try to give my hand at improving the look of it eventually, but these irregular number marking will have to stay for now. The axis is still Log Base 10, no worries on that. As much as I would like to improve on this... I figured that I would learn and do something else related to my work that I am getting from school.

It's like a dog that refuses to do new tricks, but the old tricks are also not too bad. ^^;

EDIT 2: I know what you mean now! I was going for linear tick marks on a log scale, which... I admit, is a little absurd when I look at it, but I suppose it had a niche application when you want only certain numbers to be displayed. I used that method for the X-axis as well, with markings for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... 105, instead of the normal log ticks.

Here's an improvement:

Image


Thanks for the feedback! ^^

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:15 am
by TalAkMaChen
Cool, thanks!
My very primitive fellow NormanJackson is not included there, if the y-axis ends at -1400 (they have a scientific "advancement" of currently around -1500 :lol: ) but still a HDI of around mid 30s. Well, very religious so that also counts as some development, I guess.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:44 am
by Racoda
Inspired by a recent issue's effects, I think it would be interesting to see Economic Freedom vs Obesity

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:21 am
by Valentine Z
Racoda wrote:Inspired by a recent issue's effects, I think it would be interesting to see Economic Freedom vs Obesity

Added to queue! ^^

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:39 am
by Nouveau Yathrib
Valentine Z wrote:So, what can we see here?


Python user = man of culture 8)

Valentine Z wrote:• 926 nations with > 500 SA, and out of these nations, 4 nations with < 40 HDI.
• A good scientifically advanced nation means that there is good HDI, but as with these 4 other nations will prove, you don’t always live long, or will be literate.

Aersoldorf has the lowest HDI at 10.17 as of the time of the trawl, with -859.59 SA.
Yaorozu has the highest HDI at 101.74, with a pretty high 714.87 SA.

Copercia has the lowest SA at -1370.79, with 21.67 HDI.
Lamborghini Murcielago has the highest SA at 1885.43, with 100.07 HDI.

In general, the higher the SA, the better the HDI. Or the higher the HDI, the more likely that you will find a scientifically advanced nation. Of course, as we have seen, exceptions still and will always apply. You can have a primitive society that, even by WA standards, have people living long, can read and write, and also earns a pretty penny in whatever industry they might be in. At the same time, a high SA will not guarantee a good HDI. Think of Cyberpunk or dystopian worlds where no matter how good and advanced the technology is, the HDI will take a nosedive if the technology is held by the big companies, or people die way too easily, or a large wealth gap, among many others.


On paper, the SA stat is based on the average citizen's general science knowledge. Which isn't a requirement for a high-tech society, especially if it's run by superintelligent AI.

World Census researchers quantified national scientific advancement by quizzing random citizens about quantum chromodynamics, space-time curvature and stem cell rejuvenation therapies. Responses based on Star Trek were discarded.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:54 am
by Trotterdam
Nouveau Yathrib wrote:On paper, the SA stat is based on the average citizen's general science knowledge.
I think it's the description that's off and doesn't quite match how it's calculated. It's definitely a separate stat from Intelligence, which is more about the education level of average citizens.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:32 am
by Khoronzon
A few more suggestions I have:
  • Book Publishing vs Intelligence
  • Compassion vs Arms Manufacturing
  • Rudeness vs Tourism
Judging by some recent issue outcomes I've seen, I'm guessing these are related, but it might be nice to see something more concrete than my own guesswork.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:37 am
by Valentine Z
Khoronzon wrote:A few more suggestions I have:
  • Book Publishing vs Intelligence
  • Compassion vs Arms Manufacturing
  • Rudeness vs Tourism
Judging by some recent issue outcomes I've seen, I'm guessing these are related, but it might be nice to see something more concrete than my own guesswork.

I will add them into the queue and finish up a few more in the queue later after my work. ^^;

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:19 am
by Leutria
Could we get primitiveness vs scientific advancement? I am sure their will be a decent negative relationship, but we have been told from the start they are not quite opposites. I am really curious how common outliers there are.