NationStates

[TITLE] Are We Our Ancestors?

[VALIDITY] Nation must not be a monarchy, Nation must not be an autocracy

[DESCRIPTION] With the DNA-tests from My23AncestralHeritages.com rapidly growing in popularity, even you, @@LEADER@@, decided to send your precious saliva to complete strangers in a lab. Yet even before receiving the official results yourself, you and the entire country have learned from national headlines that you are distantly related to a feared Marche Noirian monarch from the 16th century, notorious for having fathered many, many, many bastards and killed just as many people.


[OPTIONS 1] "Madness runs in the blood. You all saw the finale of Throne of Games, people," tweets @@RANDOMNAME_1@@, one of your most vocal political opponents. "Before you know it, @@CAPITAL@@ will be a smoking ruin with @@LEADER@@ ruling the ashes. I propose a team of certified, well-trained and completely unbiased psychiatrists continuously monitor our head of state and report everything to us, the part-eh, I mean, the people."

[EFFECT 1] even @@LEADER@@’s bowel movements are public knowledge


[OPTION 2] "Don’t worry, @@LEADER@@, I don’t think you’re mad. You’re just special!" PM’s your Minister of Science and Research @@RANDOMNAME_2@@ over Twitcher. "Although, @@HE_1@@ does raise a good point. There’s a lot we could learn about a person from their DNA. Why don’t you buy all that data from My23AncestralHeritages and let my people thoroughly study it? From what I hear there’s many of our citizens in their database…"

[EFFECT 2] citizens are surprised to learn they are being treated for previously unknown genetic disorders


[OPTION 3] "There’s a mad opportunity here, @@LEADER@@," your Minister of Defense says, only then realizing what @@HE_3@@ said. "Eh, sorry, ‘bout that, but consider: this proves you’re the descendant of a sovereign of Marche Noir. That means YOU are the rightful ruler of their lands! Send our boys over to them and let’s claim what’s rightfully our-err, I mean, yours!"

[EFFECT 3] citizens try to get property for free by claiming ancestry to one of its obscure, long-dead landowners


[OPTION 4] "This is madness!" screeches Minister of Intelligence @@RANDOMNAME_4@@ as @@HE_4@@ emerges from behind a curtain in your office, startling the Defense Minister. "Why you ask? Because everyone is learning everything about everyone, and that’s my job! You need to ban companies like My23AncestralHeritages and drastically limit what information can be released to the public. Or do you want your enemies to know about your allergy to @@ANIMALPLURAL@@?"

[EFFECT 4] citizens find their names on their ID’s and passports redacted for security purposes


[OPTION 5] "It’s not only madness that’s running in your blood," chimes in your cousin and wannabe-aristocrat, adjusting his cheaply-made monocle. "It’s also royalty! I say, make use of it and reorganize @@NATION@@ into a monarchy. Sure, you can keep the constitution, the parliament and everything, but I will finally have to stop worrying about getting a job."

[EFFECT 5] the national budget is strained by @@LEADER@@’s unexpected coronation ceremony


[OPTION 6] "Are you mad?" says your cousin’s equally cheaply aristocratic twin in indignation. "Keep those dreadfully inefficient instruments of state intact? When we can have an absolute monarchy like great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grand uncle in March Noir used to have?" he looks at you with a frightfully intense gaze in his eyes. "Make our ancestor of proud you, @@LEADER@@, and follow in his footsteps…"

[EFFECT 6] @@LEADER@@ shall go down in history as ‘The Mad Monarch’

Daarwyrth wrote:even you, @@LEADER@@, decided to send your precious saliva to complete strangers in a lab.

Don't tell me what I did.

Trotterdam wrote:

Daarwyrth wrote:even you, @@LEADER@@, decided to send your precious saliva to complete strangers in a lab.

Don't tell me what I did.

But isn't it innocent in this case? I mean, there are issues out there that tell you that you have a brother or sister, which might not be how someone plays their @@LEADER@@.

Daarwyrth wrote:But isn't it innocent in this case? I mean, there are issues out there that tell you that you have a brother or sister, which might not be how someone plays their @@LEADER@@.

Having a brother or sister isn't something people in real life get to decide whether to do. Sending bodily fluids to a genetic testing service is.

Yes, roleplayers do often want to decide things about their characters that real-life people don't get a choice in too, but we have to draw the line somewhere, and I'm pretty sure the issue editors have mentioned in the past that this is where they chose to draw the line. (Plus, there's the grandfather clause, because @@LEADER@@'s family members had already been a fixture of issues long before we got as serious about player autonomy as we are now. Player autonomy was less of an issue back in the days before there was even a @@LEADER@@ field, anyway, since people were less inclined to try to write issues that are about the leader rather than the nation.)

Trotterdam wrote:

Daarwyrth wrote:But isn't it innocent in this case? I mean, there are issues out there that tell you that you have a brother or sister, which might not be how someone plays their @@LEADER@@.

Having a brother or sister isn't something people in real life get to decide whether to do. Sending bodily fluids to a genetic testing service is.

Yes, roleplayers do often want to decide things about their characters that real-life people don't get a choice in too, but we have to draw the line somewhere, and I'm pretty sure the issue editors have mentioned in the past that this is where they chose to draw the line. (Plus, there's the grandfather clause, because @@LEADER@@'s family members had already been a fixture of issues long before we got as serious about player autonomy as we are now. Player autonomy was less of an issue back in the days before there was even a @@LEADER@@ field, anyway, since people were less inclined to try to write issues that are about the leader rather than the nation.)

You make a good point there.

What if I changed it to that one of those cousins sent a sample of their DNA to the testing service? That way it would still be the same family, so that wouldn't have to change, but player autonomy would be kept intact.

Or @@LEADER@@'s sibling could send in the sample. They definately have the same ansestry. Either way, who fudge blames a modern person for the actions of their dead ancestor? That's as stupid as claiming that the queen of England is secretly Muslim, just because she was decendant from Mohammed (yes, people have actually made that claim)

Australian rePublic wrote:Or @@LEADER@@'s sibling could send in the sample. They definately have the same ansestry.

Definitely do this.

Australian rePublic wrote:the queen of England is secretly Muslim, just because she was decendant from Mohammed (yes, people have actually made that claim)

Aren't we all descended from Ghengis Khan?

Royal families had a tendency to have flaws passed down through the generations, both due to upbringing (growing up in a decadent environment won't do wonders for your own attitude) and due to massive inbreeding (which tends to keep family features in the family as well as bring out the worst ones). Even then, the magnitude of this is exaggerated in fiction compared to real life.

If you're descended from some utter bastard twenty generations back but without constant incest between there and here, it's really going to have a pretty negligible effect on your own nature. If you need genetic testing to even find out you're related, then you clearly haven't been upholding the family traditions, either.

I get that A Game of Thrones is a very popular series these days, but "I read about it in a book once" is not a sensible reason to pick up the torches and pitchforks.

Australian rePublic wrote:Or @@LEADER@@'s sibling could send in the sample. They definately have the same ansestry. Either way, who fudge blames a modern person for the actions of their dead ancestor? That's as stupid as claiming that the queen of England is secretly Muslim, just because she was decendant from Mohammed (yes, people have actually made that claim)

It's not meant to be taken seriously of course, this is exaggerated for the purpose of the joke but there are people who behave like that. Especially when there's a vocal opposition, I could imagine them use any argument to criticise the current government. In this case, the opposition leader tries to discredit @@LEADER@@ by trying to make it appear as they'll go down the same path. But it's all exaggerated and I have seen many issues that go down along the same lines of exaggeration. It's NationStates, right?

Trotterdam wrote:Royal families had a tendency to have flaws passed down through the generations, both due to upbringing (growing up in a decadent environment won't do wonders for your own attitude) and due to massive inbreeding (which tends to keep family features in the family as well as bring out the worst ones). Even then, the magnitude of this is exaggerated in fiction compared to real life.

If you're descended from some utter bastard twenty generations back but without constant incest between there and here, it's really going to have a pretty negligible effect on your own nature. If you need genetic testing to even find out you're related, then you clearly haven't been upholding the family traditions, either.

I get that A Game of Thrones is a very popular series these days, but "I read about it in a book once" is not a sensible reason to pick up the torches and pitchforks.

Please, don't take it that seriously, it's meant as an exaggerated joke xD I know how biology and genetics work, I trust most of us here do. But I have seen common knowledge waived more than once here in NationStates issues. This is not meant to be 1 on 1 with the real world, right?

I feel people are a tad nitpicky here. It's obviously meant in a funny way, just like most of the issues in this game. Have you seen some of the stuff out there? It's crazy! But it's also why I love NationStates so much.

There is a difference between humorous exaggeration and lunacy.

Exaggeration works because it uses humor to add color to what is nonetheless a serious and legitimate issue. Something has to exist before you can "exaggerate" it.

This draft isn't just people overreacting a little bit to a real but not-quite-that-desperate problem. It's something over which any reasonable person would simply roll his eyes.

Now, if you exaggerated it in the other direction - like, rather than just one bad apple in the family tree twenty generations ago (which means I would share about one-millionth of his DNA), @@LEADER@@ is descended from a ten-generation-long line of tyrants on both sides of the family, right up to his own parents - then this might actually be something to be concerned about. But I think even with the "not something @@LEADER@@ would get to choose in real life" technicality, that steps on player autonomy a little too much.

Also, #1092.

I've decided to cancel this an all other of my drafts because I just get too tired by continuously have my enthusiasm shut down. I understand that nothing is perfect from the get-go, but as someone said before, I do feel there is too much nitpicking when it comes to these issues. I wish everyone else good luck with their issues, but all my motivation and enthusiasm is gone for this, sorry.

Daarwyrth wrote:I've decided to cancel this an all other of my drafts because I just get too tired by continuously have my enthusiasm shut down. I understand that nothing is perfect from the get-go, but as someone said before, I do feel there is too much nitpicking when it comes to these issues. I wish everyone else good luck with their issues, but all my motivation and enthusiasm is gone for this, sorry.

Nit-picking is a sign of a good issue

Daarwyrth wrote:I've decided to cancel this an all other of my drafts because I just get too tired by continuously have my enthusiasm shut down. I understand that nothing is perfect from the get-go, but as someone said before, I do feel there is too much nitpicking when it comes to these issues. I wish everyone else good luck with their issues, but all my motivation and enthusiasm is gone for this, sorry.

Sorry to hear that. You're always welcome to come back if you change your mind. Some of us were talking about your threads and thought it was a shame to see you leave.

You can also draft issues independently -- like write a draft one day, save it on your hard drive, come back a couple days later to look it over and see if there's anything you can improve -- and submit them that way. We recommend drafting on the forum because it's more reliable for most people, but a good submission is a good submission regardless of how it was drafted.

Real shame, mate. Especially as I think this issue has potential. You need to work on it about more. As I said earlier, nit-picking is the sign of a good issue. It means that we don't have anything major to criticise, so we're going after the tiny little details. No issue author will be perfect on the first go (I have 16 issues in my name, and I still struggle). You just gotta keep your enthuism, and at least acknowledge everyone's advice (even if you think it's stupid, atleast acknowledge it. I won't get offended). I think this specific issue has potential. Like I said, there are people who legitimately think that the queen of England is secretly Muslim because she's most likely decendant from Mohammed (yes, sometimes people actually do base their religions upon such stupid claims). Research that more, and make that your focus. (It's not only Muslims, mind you, I've seen other people, including Christians, blame their religions on equally as stupid claims, making me ashamed to share a religion with them, but that's not the focus of this issue)