[DRAFT] Habeas Corpses

[Orange-Bourgogne]

My first draft issue. Critique is welcome.

Habeas Corpses

The Prosecution Office accuses @@RANDOMNAME@@ of treason. The only problem is that the suspect died two years ago.

Requirements: Must have a judicial system.

@@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@, the defence barrister, claims that her client can by no means be tried. “How can you accuse a person that has ceased to exist? Should we send his body to trial? Have you any idea what smell that would bring with it?! In the next case, the prosecution will probably try convicting @@ANIMALPLURAL@@ too. Clearly, the case should be dismissed!”

Effect: Suspects commit suicide in order to avoid trial.

“OBJECTION!”, shouts @@RANDOMNAME@@ wearing a black gown and a wig, @@NAME@@’s chief prosecutor. If you allow us to bring this case to the attention of the criminal courts, we would undoubtably prove that the suspect is guilty. It just took us thirteen years to find that out! Surely, criminals must be punished for their crimes; if not, @@NAME@@ will become a paradise for the parasites of society. They must serve their sentences, even if their bodies suffer from a permanent health condition like death.”

Effect: Skeletons serve prison sentences 500 years after they committed their crimes.

“Holy Violet!” A man responds. “Why do we punish criminals at all? Is it not true that only the Mighty Violet may pass down judgement on us mortals? Clearly, if the High Violet is of the opinion that a crime was made, She will intervene and strike the person with lightning.”

Effect: Criminals have a 0.00000002% chance of being punished for their behaviour.

"Dear @@LEADER@@", @@RANDOMNAME@@, spokesperson for the Rest In Peace Foundation says while entering your office from the trapdoor leading to your personal nuclear bunker 25 furlongs below the ground, "Has this suspect not suffered enough already? Besides, what will you do if the poor being is convicted? Kill him? I urge you to stop this nonsense and divert your attention to those presently living once again.

Effect:
Author: Orange-Bourgogne

[Bears Armed]

OOC; If the law allows confiscation of convicted traitors' estates, as has been the case in some RL nations, then that potentially gives the authorities an extra reason for post-mortem prosecution...

[Orange-Bourgogne]

OOC; If the law allows confiscation of convicted traitors' estates, as has been the case in some RL nations, then that potentially gives the authorities an extra reason for post-mortem prosecution...

An interesting aspect, I admit. Yet on the other hand there are also legal systems who consider the confiscation of land not to be part of criminal law. They rather see it part of civil law. Another question that could be brought up if we got down this road is whether or not the property would then belong to the traitor or his successors. Yet let us stick to the personal (criminal) responsibility. I am willing to change the suspected crime to something like murder if that would be deemed better...

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Nice topic.

Have you any idea what smell that would bring with it?!

[Orange-Bourgogne]

Nice topic.

Have you any idea what smell that would bring with it?!

I'm glad you liked the joke. I tried not to make it too serious.

[Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners]

Law &
Order
Weekend At Bernies

**BUM BUM**

Seriously, though, perhaps the Violetists might be the one's proposing posthumous trial. Something along the lines of the Cadaver Synod, if Violetism is compatible in some way. I'd think it ordinarily difficult to see a nominally secular government going to the trouble and expense, outside of extremely exceptional circumstances (e.g. establishing the historical fact and/or culpability of some war crime, or similar).

Also, title should be "Habeus Corpses."

[Australian rePublic]

When I read this I thought that this was about places where it's illegal to die. What are you gonna do, kill him? (Try to include that line somewhere). Also, if he hasn't had his trial yet, how do we know that he's guilty? Presumption of innocence

[Orange-Bourgogne]

Law &
Order
Weekend At Bernies

**BUM BUM**

Seriously, though, perhaps the Violetists might be the one's proposing posthumous trial. Something along the lines of the Cadaver Synod, if Violetism is compatible in some way. I'd think it ordinarily difficult to see a nominally secular government going to the trouble and expense, outside of extremely exceptional circumstances (e.g. establishing the historical fact and/or culpability of some war crime, or similar).

This would also have been an option of course, but I choose the divine interference to take place during the lives so that it would scare potential criminals to commit their actions rather than having them punished in the afterlife.

Also, title should be "Habeus Corpses."

I like it. This suggestion will be implemented.

When I read this I thought that this was about places where it's illegal to die. What are you gonna do, kill him? (Try to include that line somewhere).

I left that one out to make the issue also applicable to nations that do not have capital punishment.

Also, if he hasn't had his trial yet, how do we know that he's guilty? Presumption of innocence

The question here is not whether the suspect is in fact guilty. The question is whether the prosecution may start a trial in which they would then have to prove that he is in fact guilty. Perhaps I will make another issue to deal with the question of guilt in the future.

[Australian rePublic]

Law &
Order
Weekend At Bernies

**BUM BUM**

Seriously, though, perhaps the Violetists might be the one's proposing posthumous trial. Something along the lines of the Cadaver Synod, if Violetism is compatible in some way. I'd think it ordinarily difficult to see a nominally secular government going to the trouble and expense, outside of extremely exceptional circumstances (e.g. establishing the historical fact and/or culpability of some war crime, or similar).

This would also have been an option of course, but I choose the divine interference to take place during the lives so that it would scare potential criminals to commit their actions rather than having them punished in the afterlife.

Also, title should be "Habeus Corpses."

I like it. This suggestion will be implemented.

When I read this I thought that this was about places where it's illegal to die. What are you gonna do, kill him? (Try to include that line somewhere).

I left that one out to make the issue also applicable to nations that do not have capital punishment.

Also, if he hasn't had his trial yet, how do we know that he's guilty? Presumption of innocence

The question here is not whether the suspect is in fact guilty. The question is whether the prosecution may start a trial in which they would then have to prove that he is in fact guilty. Perhaps I will make another issue to deal with the question of guilt in the future.

Isn't making death illegal the opposite of the death penalty?

[Verdant Haven]

The main concern I'm seeing is along the lines of what Bears Armed and ACBC have already brought up – the justification for having such a trial at all. Unless a nation has Corruption of Blood, why is a full legal case being pursued? It's a waste of money, waste of time, and has no place in the criminal justice system. Even a Truth and Reconciliation Commission doesn't deal in criminal trials. This could make an excellent issue for a public inquiry or an inquest discussion, but criminal prosecution doesn't make sense.

If this were framed as argument for or against pursuing evidence of past wrongdoing in one of those non-trial contexts, I think it would be much stronger, and would gain the ring of truth that it needs.

[Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners]

If this were framed as argument for or against pursuing evidence of past wrongdoing in one of those non-trial contexts, I think it would be much stronger, and would gain the ring of truth that it needs.

Plus, you could still have the crazy third option, where some Violetist insists that you've got to dig up the actual corpse and present it at trial. Or, maybe an overly enthusiastic paralegal interpreting "habeus corpus" a bit too literally. Or a Constitutional literalist, for that matter.

[Verdant Haven]

If this were framed as argument for or against pursuing evidence of past wrongdoing in one of those non-trial contexts, I think it would be much stronger, and would gain the ring of truth that it needs.

Plus, you could still have the crazy third option, where some Violetist insists that you've got to dig up the actual corpse and present it at trial. Or, maybe an overly enthusiastic paralegal interpreting "habeus corpus" a bit too literally. Or a Constitutional literalist, for that matter.

Agreed - I think a legally-ignorant wacko trying to literally interpret the phrase habeas corpus is a perfect justification for the third option. Can't get much more direct than that!

[Maltropia]

Also, title should be "Habeus Corpses."

Habeas*

[Israeli Commonwealth]

My first draft issue. Critique is welcome.

Habeus Corpses

The Prosecution Office accuses @@RANDOMNAME@@ of treason. The only problem is that the suspect died two years ago.

Requirements: Must have a judicial system.

@@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@, the defence barrister, claims that her client can by no means be tried. “How can you accuse a person that has ceased to exist? Should we send his body to trial? Have you any idea what smell that would bring with it?! In the next case, the prosecution will probably try convicting @@ANIMALPLURAL@@ too. Clearly, the case should be dismissed!”

Effect: Suspects commit suicide in order to avoid trial.

“OBJECTION!”, shouts @@RANDOMNAME@@ wearing a black gown and a wig, @@NAME@@’s chief prosecutor. We have undoubtable proof that the suspect is guilty. It just took us thirteen years to find that out! Surely, criminals must be punished for their crimes; if not, @@NAME@@ will become a paradise for the parasites of society. They must serve their sentences, even if their bodies suffer from a permanent health condition like death.”

Effect: Skeletons serve prison sentences 500 years after they committed their crimes.

“Holy Violet!” A man responds. “Why do we punish criminals at all? Is it not true that only the Mighty Violet may pass down judgement on us mortals? Clearly, if the High Violet is of the opinion that a crime was made, She will intervene and strike the person with lightning.”

Effect: Criminals have a 0.00000002% chance of being punished for their behaviour.

Author: Orange-Bourgogne

OOC: Maybe add that families could be tried for a suspects crimes

[Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners]

Also, title should be "Habeus Corpses."

Habeas*

It's U-E-I-O-A, isn't it?

(oops)

[Australian rePublic]

You should include the line "What are you gonna do? Kill him?" somewhere