[1370] All Systems Post-Nominal

[Verdant Haven]

I wanted to play around a little bit with the use of post-nominal letters. Things like "M.D." and "Esq." on the end of a person's name have very clear and specific implications for most of us, but whether or not they're actually legally "protected" terms is less clear. I feel like this is a reasonable angle for a free speech discussion, and also a good way for me to include a tip of the hat to honorific post-nominals like those we see used in Britain, for example, HRH The Prince of Wales, KG KT GCB OM AK CC QSO CD PC ADC! That was something I just about wrote an entire separate issue for (with options to create nobility, etc), but thought it would be better served as part of this much more practical and modern potential debate.

[TITLE]All Systems Post-Nominal

[DESCRIPTION] After several accidental deaths were blamed on the advice of “@@RANDOMNAME@@ M.D.,” an individual operating from a shady office on the outskirts of @@CAPITAL@@, investigation revealed that @@HE@@ was using the letters M.D. without possessing a medical license.

[VALIDITY] All

[OPTION 1] "I never lied to anybody!" wheedles the accused con artist over the phone, from the bunker where @@HE@@ has gone in to hiding. "I never said I was a Medical Doctor, and I didn't post any signs calling my office a clinic. I merely gave advice to whomever happened to come by, and they compensated me in exchange! Is it a crime to be wrong? Whatever happened to free speech?"

[EFFECT 1] a Ph.D just ain’t what it used to be


[OPTION 2] "My diagnosis: misuse of post-nominal letters. The prescription: board certification!" pontificates Doctor @@RANDOMNAME@@, president of the @@NAME@@ Medical Association, while scribbling illegibly in a notepad. "There are professional associations for nearly all reputable occupations… MDs, CPAs, even the lawyers with their cute little 'Esq.' title! You must require that an individual be certified by a proper professional association before using any kind of letters after their name, for the public’s sake."

[EFFECT 2] children must be board certified to append "Jr." to their name


[OPTION 3] "I agree that we need credentialing, but the government ought to handle it" opines @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Deputy Minister for Expanding Bureaucracy. "Can we really trust private groups to handle membership fairly? That’s just begging for corruption and nepotism. We'll set standards that will be the same all across @@NAME@@, and the paper trail we create, signed in triplicate and filed appropriately, will ensure we know exactly who is allowed to call themselves what!"

[EFFECT 3] professionals are ready to retire by the time they receive permission to use their credentials


[OPTION 4] [VALIDITY: No Feudalism] "Occupational titles?" asks your protocol assistant @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@, straightening @@HIS@@ cravat. "Oh no, what the government needs is some new titles of its own, to recognize citizens that have served us well! Imagine – the @@LEADER@@ Medal of Freedom! The @@NAME@@ Legion of Merit! Maybe even bring back knighthoods and earldoms and duchies? That’s how you show some appreciation! Those are the only post-nominals that matter to me."

[EFFECT 4] The full title of HRH @@LEADER@@ MF @@NAMEINITIALS@@LM GC@@NAMEINITIALS@@E runs to several pages

3rd draft:

[TITLE]All Systems Post-Nominal

[DESCRIPTION] After several accidental deaths were blamed on the advice of @@RANDOMNAME@@ M.D., an individual operating from a shady office on the outskirts of @@CAPITAL@@, investigation revealed that @@HE@@ was using the letters M.D. without possessing a medical license.

[VALIDITY] All

[OPTION 1] "I never lied to anybody!" wheedles the accused con artist over the phone, from the bunker where @@HE@@ has gone in to hiding. "I never claimed to be a Medical Doctor, and I didn't have any signs up calling my office a clinic, so really I wasn't practicing medicine without a license. I was just giving advice to people I cared about! Sure, I only cared because they happened to be paying me, but whatever happened to free speech?"

[EFFECT 1] paying for a service instantly qualifies as friendship


[OPTION 2] "My diagnosis: misuse of post-nominal letters. The prescription: board certification!" concludes Doctor @@RANDOMNAME@@, @@NAME@@ Medical Association president, while scribbling illegibly in a notepad. "There are reputable associations for nearly all regulated professions… MDs, CPAs, even the lawyers and their cute little 'Esq. ' title! For the sake of the public, you must require that an individual be certified by a proper professional association before using any kind of letters after their name!"

[EFFECT 2] children named for their parents must be board certified to append "Jr." to their name


[OPTION 3] "I agree that there should be credentialing, but it ought to be the government’s job to handle it" opines @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Deputy Minister for Controlling All the Things. "Can we really trust private groups to handle membership fairly? That’s just begging for corruption and nepotism. We'll set standards that will be the same all across @@NAME@@, and the paper trail we create, signed in triplicate and filed appropriately, will ensure we know exactly who is allowed to make what claims!"

[EFFECT 3] medical students would rather schmooze with faceless bureaucrats than veteran doctors


[OPTION 4] [VALIDITY: No Feudalism] "Occupational titles?" asks your protocol assistant @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@, straightening @@HIS@@ cravat. "Oh no, what the government needs is some new titles of our own, to recognize citizens that have served us well! Imagine – the @@LEADER@@ Medal of Freedom! The @@NAME@@ Legion of Merit! Maybe even bring back earldoms and duchies? It would be a great way for the government to reward those who are deserving of praise. Those are the only post-nominals that matter to me!"

[EFFECT 4] The full title of HRH @@LEADER@@ MF @@NAMEINITIALS@@LM GC@@NAMEINITIALS@@E runs to several pages

2nd draft:

[TITLE]All Systems Post-Nominal

[DESCRIPTION] After several accidental deaths were blamed on the advice of @@RANDOMNAME@@ M.D., an individual operating from a shady office on the outskirts of @@CAPITAL@@, investigation revealed that @@HE@@ didn’t even have a medical license. When challenged by reporters, @@HE@@ stated that @@HE@@ had never claimed to be a "Medical Doctor," that @@HIS@@ office didn't have any signs proclaiming itself a clinic, and that customers had simply chosen to believe that's what the letters "M.D." meant.

[VALIDITY] All

[OPTION 1] "I never lied to anybody!" wheedles the accused con artist over the phone, from the bunker where @@HE@@ has gone in to hiding. "I just offered to consult on people's problems in exchange for reasonable rates. These people chose to ask me for medical advice! I gave it, and maybe it turned out to be wrong… but is that really a crime? What ever happened to free speech? It’s the responsibility of the customer to carefully select who they go to – nobody forced them to come to me!"

[EFFECT 1] bleeding accident victims struggle to identify real paramedics amongst the phonies

[OPTION 2] "My diagnosis: misuse of post-nominal letters. The prescription: board certification!" concludes Doctor @@RANDOMNAME@@, @@NAME@@ Medical Association president, while scribbling almost illegibly in a notepad. "There are reputable groups for nearly all regulated professions… MDs, CPAs, even the lawyers and their cute little 'Esq. ' title! For the sake of the public, you must require that an individual be certified by a proper professional association before using any kind of letters after their name!"

[EFFECT 2] children named for their parents must be board certified to append "Jr." to their name

[OPTION 3] "I agree that there should be credentialing, but it ought to be the government’s job to handle it" opines @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Deputy Minister for Controlling All the Things. "Can we really trust non-governmental groups to handle membership fairly? That’s just begging for corruption and nepotism. We can set standards that will be the same all across @@NAME@@, and the paper trail we create, signed in triplicate and filed appropriately, will ensure we know exactly who is allowed to make what claims!"

[EFFECT 3] medical students would rather schmooze with faceless bureaucrats than veteran doctors

[OPTION 4] [VALIDITY: No Feudalism] "Oh, who cares about occupational titles" asks your protocol assistant @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@, straightening @@HIS@@ cravat. "What the government needs is some new titles of our own, to recognize citizens that have served us well! Imagine – the @@LEADER@@ Medal of Freedom! The @@NAME@@ Legion of Merit! Maybe even bring back earldoms and duchies? It would be a great way for the government to reward those who are deserving of praise. Those are the only post-nominals that matter to me!"

[EFFECT 4] The full title of HRH @@LEADER@@ MF @@NAMEINITIALS@@LM GC@@NAMEINITIALS@@E runs to several pages

1st draft

[TITLE]All Systems Post-Nominal

[DESCRIPTION] After several accidental deaths were blamed on the advice of @@RANDOMNAME@@ M.D., an individual operating from a shady office on the outskirts of @@CAPITAL@@, investigation revealed that @@HE@@ didn’t even have a medical license. When challenged by reporters, @@HE@@ stated that @@HE@@ had never claimed to be a medical doctor, and that customers had simply chosen to believe that's what the letters "M.D." meant.

[VALIDITY] All

[OPTION 1] "I never lied to anybody!" wheedles the accused con artist over the phone, from the bunker where @@HE@@ has gone in to hiding. "I just offered to consult on people's problems in exchange for reasonable rates. These people chose to ask me for medical advice! I gave it, and maybe it turned out to be wrong… but is that really a crime? What ever happened to free speech? It’s the responsibility of the customer to carefully select who they go to – nobody forced them to come to me!"

[EFFECT 1] bleeding accident victims demand to see credentials from their rescuers

[OPTION 2] "My diagnosis: misuse of post-nominal letters. The prescription: board certification!" concludes Doctor @@RANDOMNAME@@, @@NAME@@ Medical Association president, while scribbling almost illegibly on a notepad. "There are reputable groups for nearly all regulated professions… MDs, CPAs, even the lawyers and their cute little 'Esq. ' title! For the sake of the public, you must require that an individual be certified by a proper professional association before using any kind of letters after their name!"

[EFFECT 2] children named for their parents must be board certified to append "Jr." to their name

[OPTION 3] "I agree that there should be credentialing, but it ought to be the government’s job to handle it" opines @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Deputy Minister for Controlling All the Things. "Can we really trust non-governmental groups to handle membership fairly? That’s just begging for corruption and nepotism. We can set standards that will be the same all across @@NAME@@, and the paper trail we create, signed in triplicate and filed appropriately, will ensure we know exactly who is allowed to make what claims!

[EFFECT 3] medical students would rather schmooze with faceless bureaucrats than veteran doctors

[OPTION 4] "Oh, let the professionals manage their own titles" says your protocol assistant @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@, straightening @@HIS@@ cravat. "What the government needs is some new titles of our own, to recognize citizens that have served us well! Imagine – the @@LEADER@@ Medal of Freedom! The @@NAME@@ Legion of Merit! It would be a great way for the government to reward those who are deserving of praise. Those are the only post-nominals that matter to me!"

[EFFECT 4] The full title of @@LEADER@@ MF @@NAMEINITIALS@@LM GC@@NAMEINITIALS@@E runs to several pages

[Vizzytopia]

The effect of Option 1 doesn't really feel like it would be caused by option one. Maybe it could be something like multiple fake ambulances appear at the scene of accidents? Like "bleeding accident victims must discern real ambulances from misleading ice cream vans" or something like that.

[Australian rePublic]

Why didn't this guy not correct the customs officer? And why did he open/work at a medical clinic? Also, what does MD stand for? What if you're one of the countries with the alternate abreviation?

[Verdant Haven]

The effect of Option 1 doesn't really feel like it would be caused by option one. Maybe it could be something like multiple fake ambulances appear at the scene of accidents? Like "bleeding accident victims must discern real ambulances from misleading ice cream vans" or something like that.

Well, there would still theoretically be laws against false light and siren usage, but I do like that suggestion... I'll see what I can do with it!

Why didn't this guy not correct the customs officer? And why did he open/work at a medical clinic? Also, what does MD stand for? What if you're one of the countries with the alternate abreviation?

- I never mention a customs officer - I'm not sure what you mean? If you mean why didn't he tell people in general that he wasn't a doctor, that's the entire point - he's an accused con man.
- What medical clinic? It just says "a shady office on the outskirts" of town. He's accused of running a con, pretending to be a doctor to make money.
- It means Medical Doctor (and various Latin versions of that). Putting it on the end of your name generally indicates being one. The argument being made by the subject here is that if the law doesn't declare it illegal to call yourself MD without credentials, then it isn't his fault that the deceased "patients" thought he was one when they came to him for help and followed his advice. If he never said "I'm a doctor" then, in his mind, it's their fault for assuming.
- Same as any of the other issues where there are different vocabularies in different countries, honestly. I did make sure to include the term "medical doctor" in the issue description though, to make sure it's clear. If it would be helpful, I could call attention to that with some scare quotes and capitals.

[Australian rePublic]

The effect of Option 1 doesn't really feel like it would be caused by option one. Maybe it could be something like multiple fake ambulances appear at the scene of accidents? Like "bleeding accident victims must discern real ambulances from misleading ice cream vans" or something like that.

Well, there would still theoretically be laws against false light and siren usage, but I do like that suggestion... I'll see what I can do with it!

Why didn't this guy not correct the customs officer? And why did he open/work at a medical clinic? Also, what does MD stand for? What if you're one of the countries with the alternate abreviation?

- I never mention a customs officer - I'm not sure what you mean? If you mean why didn't he tell people in general that he wasn't a doctor, that's the entire point - he's an accused con man.
- What medical clinic? It just says "a shady office on the outskirts" of town. He's accused of running a con, pretending to be a doctor to make money.
- It means Medical Doctor (and various Latin versions of that). Putting it on the end of your name generally indicates being one. The argument being made by the subject here is that if the law doesn't declare it illegal to call yourself MD without credentials, then it isn't his fault that the deceased "patients" thought he was one when they came to him for help and followed his advice. If he never said "I'm a doctor" then, in his mind, it's their fault for assuming.
- Same as any of the other issues where there are different vocabularies in different countries, honestly. I did make sure to include the term "medical doctor" in the issue description though, to make sure it's clear. If it would be helpful, I could call attention to that with some scare quotes and capitals.

Hmmm.... the writing still seems as though he opened up something that could atleast get confused for a medical clinic

[Verdant Haven]

New draft up:

Changelog 1st to 2nd
- Tweaked the description to make it clearer what's going on
- Adjusted Effect 1 in accordance with feedback received
- Added language to Option 4 suggesting the implementation of Feudalism, and adding validity to exclude nations which already have it
- Minor grammar and terminology corrections

[Verdant Haven]

I've pulled this one back out and done another draft to see if it can catch some interest. Changes include:

- Majorly trimmed the description to avoid including the argument in it
- Moved most of that argument material to Option 1, where it belongs
- Replaced Effect 1
- Minor tweaks to Options 2, 3, and 4.

[Verdant Haven]

After being away from issue writing for a bit to focus on other duties, I'm happy to be back and am reviving this with a fresh round of edits. I feel like it's in reasonable shape honestly, but definitely would love to get some more feedback than it received the first time around! The latest updates:

- Edited and simplified all four Option texts
- Shorted Effect 2
- Completely replaced Effects 1 and 3

[Lelscrep]

Not a helpful response, I know, but this issue is really solid, good work. I can't see any suggestions I could give right now, if I find any after more reading I'll edit this comment. Good stuff.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Yes, it looks extremely good to me.

[Verdant Haven]

Not a helpful response, I know, but this issue is really solid, good work. I can't see any suggestions I could give right now, if I find any after more reading I'll edit this comment. Good stuff.

Yes, it looks extremely good to me.

Many thanks!

I'll set this one to last call, and submit it in a couple days.

[Verdant Haven]

Submitted this one for consideration. Thanks, all!

[Australian rePublic]

Good Luck