[Name] In Limbo [Desc] The @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Immigration Services (@@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@IS) recently tracked down an asylum-seeking family who entered the country illegally to a church in @@CAPITAL@@. However, in accordance with long-standing @@DEMONYM@@ tradition, members of law enforcement are prohibited from entering places of worship while services are ongoing. The church is now on its twentieth day of marathon service in an attempt to keep the family from being arrested. [Validity] allows religion
[option] "This is nothing more than a blatant attempt to keep the laws of our country from being enforced," snaps the Secretary of the @@DEMONYM@@IS, whose face is currently ten different shades of red. "We cannot allow for these folks to take advantage of our system; they have to be taught a lesson! Just give me the word, and my people will storm the church and apprehend the suspects in a matter of minutes. While we’re at it, we will arrest all of those who aided the family, too. No one should get away with aiding and abetting a criminal, no matter how righteous they think they are." [effect] even God cannot save you in @@NAME@@
[option] "I don't think you realize how bad it would make the @@TYPE@@ look if you stormed sacred our place of worship," counters a clergy member of the church at the crux of the matter. "If these officers went in guns blazing, I can guarantee the international community would give you a resounding condemnation. Instead of doing something so foolish, you need to instruct the officers to stand down and continue to respect this long-standing tradition. On top of that, this poor family should be granted asylum for all the hardships @@NAME@@ has put them through." [effect] all you have to do is pray to get into @@NAME@@
[option] "It looks like we need to teach these churchgoers a lesson," suggests @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@ Herod, your Head of Internal Security Services. "The clergy claim they are following the will of their god by protecting this family, but how can they truly know unless they are able to ask? We can do them a favor and sure as hell send them to whatever higher power they believe in to get a definitive answer. Just imagine this: in a tragic accident, the church burns down, trapping everyone inside to an unfortunate, fiery grave. I'm sure one of those far-right groups wouldn't mind taking the fall for this one." [effect] members of the clergy are urged not to play with fire
[Name] In Limbo [Desc] The @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Immigration Services (@@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@IS) recently tracked down an asylum-seeking family who entered the country illegally to a church in @@CAPITAL@@. However, in accordance with long-standing @@DEMONYM@@ tradition, members of law enforcement are prohibited from entering places of worship while services are ongoing. The church is now on its twentieth day of this marathon service to stop the family from being arrested. [Validity] allows religion
[option] "This is nothing more than a blatant attempt to keep the laws of our country from being enforced," snaps the Secretary of the @@DEMONYM@@IS, whose face is currently ten different shades of red. "We cannot allow for these folks to take advantage of our system; they have to be taught a lesson! Just give me the word, and my people will storm the church and apprehend the suspects in a matter of minutes. While we’re at it, we will arrest all of those who aided the family, too. No one should get away with aiding and abetting a criminal, no matter how righteous they think they are." [effect] even God cannot save you in @@NAME@@
[option] "Could you even imagine how bad it would make the @@TYPE@@ look if you were to storm the church while they were in service?" counters a clergy member of the church at the crux of the matter. "If these officers went in guns a-blazing, I can guarantee the international community would give you a resounding condemnation for your actions. Instead of doing something so foolish, instruct the officers to stand down and respect centuries-long tradition. On top of that, you should grant asylum to this poor family for all they've had to put up with. We should be more welcoming hosts going forward, too." [effect] all you have to do is pray to get into @@NAME@@
[Title] In Limbo [Desc] In a high profile case in recent headlines, the @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Immigration Services (@@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@IS) tracked down an asylum seeker to a place of worship within @@CAPITAL@@. In accordance with an old law that was never rescinded, @@DEMONYMINITIALS@@IS refuse to enter any places of worship while they’re in service, and the clergy within are now on their thirtieth straight hour of holding services. [Validity] allows religion
[option] "This is a pure and blatant attempt to undermine our law enforcement," snaps the Secretary of the @@DEMONYM@@IS, pacing around the room with a bright red face. "We cannot allow for these folks to take advantage of our system, and we need to teach them a lesson, now! You must give the go for my forces to storm the place of worship and apprehend the suspect. While we’re at it, we ought to arrest those who aided the illegal immigrant, too. No one should get away with aiding and abetting a criminal, no matter their religion." [effect] even Violet cannot save you in @@NAME@@
[option] "Can you imagine how bad this would make the @@TYPE@@ look on an international level?" counters a clergy member of the church at the center of attention. "If you stormed the church with your guns a-blazing, every nation in @@REGION@@ would condemn you. It would absolutely be catastrophic to your public image, and there's no way you can allow your officers to go through with this." [effect] @@LEADER@@ really likes to "wait and see"
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:22 am
by Candlewhisper Archive
Is there any such custom in real life?
I know that many would consider it good manners to avoid interrupting a service if possible, and I know that cops have been criticised for doing so in the past, but I would have thought that any reasonable commentator would have said that waiting a short while is polite, but it'd be unreasonable to expect anyone to wait 30 hours to execute their duties.
Maybe it'd more believable if while the policeman was waiting for a service to finish (having been asked to wait out front), the illegal snuck out the back of the church. Then the question would be whether the policeman should have delayed the arrest at all.
Also, by making it something that has already happened rather than an in media res situation, it becomes more believably something that LEADER might be involved in.
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:52 am
by Trotterdam
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Is there any such custom in real life?
The right of asylym (mentioned in the effect line of #836 2/3, although it's not an accurate representation of the historical reasoning for such rights, and isn't exactly the point of the issue) is something similar, and doesn't even require an ongoing service.
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:03 am
by Candlewhisper Archive
Aware of the right of asylum, and indeed of the claiming of sanctuary, but those are distinct things from what is being discussed here, which is the interruption of a religious service.
Dutch law prohibits police from entering churches while they’re in service. I should also note the actual church has been doing this since October IRL.
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:06 am
by Candlewhisper Archive
Fascinating! So it actually IS a thing IRL.
I guess in the issue you could refer to it as "using a loophole in an obscure but never rescinded old law", as that looks to be the real life situation.
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:22 am
by Jutsa
Love the two-option issue...
though, hypothetically, if you really wanted to, you could have a third option to blow up the church and blame terrorists...
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:25 am
by Sacara
Thank you, Jutsa. For now, I'll keep it at a two-option issue. Personally, I think I should keep the issue as it is now and keep it during the actual event and not afterward.
Still taking more suggestions, though.
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:31 pm
by Australian rePublic
@@DENONYMINTIAL@@IS? What's that?
In any case, there were medieval laws about that would protect accused criminals entering a church, irrespective of whether or not there was currently a service. Maybe change the focus to that. I was planning compiling a list of issue ideas of issues which I will not write, and the law of sanctuary was one of them. You beat me to it Does this apply to all religious instituions or only @@FAITH@@?
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:04 pm
by Far Tholk
Australian rePublic wrote:@@DENONYMINTIAL@@IS? What's that?
Australian rePublic Immigration Services.
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:27 pm
by Jutsa
Perhaps this could be made slightly more clear by adding "(@@DEMONYMINITIALS@@IS)" directly after "@@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Immigration Services"
Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:37 pm
by Sacara
Jutsa wrote:Perhaps this could be made slightly more clear by adding "(@@DEMONYMINITIALS@@IS)" directly after "@@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Immigration Services"
though, hypothetically, if you really wanted to, you could have a third option to blow up the church and blame terrorists...
That would be deliciously insane!
Go with your instincts though, Sacara.
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:31 am
by Bears Armed
Jutsa wrote:though, hypothetically, if you really wanted to, you could have a third option to blow up the church and blame terrorists...
Maybe even with the speaker as "@@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@ Herod, your Head of Internal State Security", who makes a similar suggestion in issue 1120, option 2?
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:08 am
by Jutsa
Already mentioned that option to him, funnily enough, but having the same character'd be an interesting possibility.
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:29 pm
by Chan Island
I love this (somebody's been reading the news).
Only thing I'm surprised about is that the first effect line has it be Violet. I think in this case putting in God is the best approach. The faith of the church in question is never mentioned (and is, frankly, an unimportant triviality), and with the current validity it is entirely possible for this to occur in a nation that has banned the Order of Violet. In addition, having it be God in the effect line would be an entirely warranted response to the dilemma in question, and would also be more friendly towards new players (because they won't suddenly be assailed with this word that will seem bizarrely out of context to somebody who's never received an issue mentioning Violetism. I swear the Violetists use temples anyway.
Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:53 pm
by Sacara
I thought of this, but I didn’t know if it was acceptable. I’d much rather use God.
Can an editor give input on whether it’s acceptable?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:31 am
by Australian rePublic
I would change "church" to "place of worship". More generic
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:43 pm
by Sacara
Australian rePublic wrote:I would change "church" to "place of worship". More generic
Easy fix.
Still taking feedback.
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:34 pm
by Sacara
Bump to get back on the first page.
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:49 am
by Sacara
Bump to put on last call.
I'm happy with the way this has turned out.
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:53 pm
by Australian rePublic
The law of sanctuary doesn't care about whether there's currently a litergy or not
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:45 pm
by Hediacrana
Two observations: 1) I was rather expecting one of the clergy to be the speaker in option 2. That, or the immigrant themselves. 2) Where the introduction of issues usually is quite neutrally worded, the term 'illegal immigrant' is rather typical for speakers with immigration-critical views. 'Asylum seeker' is the more objective term (for instance, the family in the RL issue you based this on was legally seeking asylum and had entered the country legally).
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:24 pm
by Sacara
After letting this sit for over 2 and a half years, I have made some revisions to this draft and would love to hear feedback on it.
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:37 pm
by Trotterdam
Sacara wrote:After letting this sit for over 2 and a half years,
So you could say this draft has been in limbo?
What I'm concerned with is the assumption that your country hates immigrants. There should be an option saying "sure, you can immigrate here, religion has nothing to do with it", and what's more, nations where that is already the policy shouldn't have this coming up.
Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:58 pm
Does this apply to all religious instituions or only @@FAITH@@?