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ISSUE IDEA: Save Jeeboosh

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Australian rePublic
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:54 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:You may want to proof-read that. Lots of spelling mistakes, and lots of text which refers to earlier versions.

And seriously, see if you can lose the words Jeevosh and Red Hill some how.

Thanks!
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Australian rePublic
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:54 am

USS Monitor wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:The problem with using @@CAPITAL@@ is that it's possible that @@CAPITAL@@ was a purpose-built city. Especially as many federations do this in order to avoid showing favouritism amongst the states, so that the capital is in a neutral territory. I believe that telling the player the history of their capital is a violation of player autonomy, whilst a random city on the other hand, is a different matter, as most countries would have mant cities, each with their own, individual capitals. Anyway, I wrote a new draft which I will post in the next post. I'll wait for RIB's edits before posting on the first page


A purpose-built capital could still have ruins under it. Maybe the ruins were buried and people didn't know they were there, but they still noticed that it was a geographically logical place to build a city.

Good point, I'll leave it RIB's discression
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Krogon
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Krogon » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:00 pm

Just received issue #719, and it reminded me of this issue, with a lot of the same themes. That, however, is about dead bodies, not dead cities. Look into that and see if you can find any helpful things that would make your issue better.

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Radical Islamic Buddhism
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Ex-Nation

Major Issues

Postby Radical Islamic Buddhism » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:45 pm

The major issues and my opinions on them! Note: Sorry for the long post.

City name: I think after weighing this, use a random name or a unique name we pick like Southwell. My reasoning is that we must use a unique name so that if the player gives it to Lilliput, it won't appear in the future. For example we might give @@CAPITAL@@ to Lilliput, then the next day we deal with riots in @@CAPITAL@@, which we don't own anymore, so that doesn't make sense. Also, giving the capital away means we must create a new capital for our government, but there is no way to do that in NationStates. The problem with @@ANIMAL@@ City is also that we might encounter it again.

Description: I liked the idea of Jeevoosh better because it actually has analogs in real life such as the Palestinians, Lebanese, Turks, Egyptians, etc. claiming to be descendants of an ancient culture from their land. For the new one about the Lilliputian empire, we have lots of countries that used to have empires but for example Iran isn't going to be asking Greece for its land back anytime soon. Say that it is widely believed Jeevooshians are Lilliputians' ancestors and the modern city is on Jeevoosh's ruins. When I write a draft, I'll write the exact text following some suggestions.

Options: The new option we created is bad because Lilliput is used in other issues, and let's say we conquer it and the next day, and then we have another later issue with Lilliput. Making a new foreign country is too dangerous as, unlike a unique city name, some other nation might use it in a future issue and then they have to deal with this. I also think we ought to provide reasons for the less patriotic options. For example, freeing Jeevoosh would show goodwill towards the heritage of Lilliput and would make @@NAME@@ look good on the world stage, and there should be a compromise solution that appeases Lilliput while keeping the part of the city we want. We could also have an option to make the city an independent country.
1) Lilliputian ambassador asking for recognition that this city is their nation's heritage and reasoning that it'll show @@NAME@@'s respect for Lilliputian culture and set a precedent of international goodwill. Anyone can steal land by claiming their ancestors owned it 3000 years ago.
2) Patriotic type declaring it to be a fake and demanding the destruction of the archaeological findings. Eminent domain consists of burning land deeds.
3) Even more patriotic type saying we should ban Jeevooshian culture and stamp out any dissent that should arise from that for the sake of stability. Ancient history is no longer included in history textbooks.
4) Let them celebrate Jeevooshian culture and make the city autonomous so people who have a cultural connection to Lilliput may be satisfied and @@NAME@@ can keep the land. @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ know that plastic has been used since ancient times because identical plastic columns have suddenly been found in every city in @@NAME@@.
5) Make it obvious that it's a silly option. The criterion is whether or not most of inhabitants of a household enjoy Jeevooshian folk music, which according to Survey Chimpanzee poll is half the population (Survey Monkey is a very inaccurate polling organization). Children are stopped at border checkpoints 200 times on their way to school.

Ancient city: Instead of being the current version of the ancient city, maybe the modern city could be built on top of the buried ruins of Jeevoosh.

Issue 719: I have encountered this issue although I didn't pay attention to the number. It's quite different from this, but I did get the idea for letting the citizens of the city be an independent country.

Writing mistakes: I'm a bit of a grammar nerd, so at the end, I can edit the final issue for grammar and flow and then post it to make sure I didn't miss any mistakes. Let's just focus on the content for now. When I have time tonight, I will write a new draft implementing all these ideas and taking into account subsequent feedback.

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Candensia
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby Candensia » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:03 pm

State of the issue aside, I’d like to commend the collaboration and drafting process I’ve seen so far. Perseverance and hard work will get you far here, among other things. Keep at it, colleagues! :)

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Candlewhisper Archive
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Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:25 am

Candensia wrote:State of the issue aside, I’d like to commend the collaboration and drafting process I’ve seen so far. Perseverance and hard work will get you far here, among other things. Keep at it, colleagues! :)


Yes, I agree with those wise words.

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Australian rePublic
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:02 am

Radical Islamic Buddhism wrote:The major issues and my opinions on them! Note: Sorry for the long post.

City name: I think after weighing this, use a random name or a unique name we pick like Southwell. My reasoning is that we must use a unique name so that if the player gives it to Lilliput, it won't appear in the future. For example we might give @@CAPITAL@@ to Lilliput, then the next day we deal with riots in @@CAPITAL@@, which we don't own anymore, so that doesn't make sense. Also, giving the capital away means we must create a new capital for our government, but there is no way to do that in NationStates. The problem with @@ANIMAL@@ City is also that we might encounter it again.

Description: I liked the idea of Jeevoosh better because it actually has analogs in real life such as the Palestinians, Lebanese, Turks, Egyptians, etc. claiming to be descendants of an ancient culture from their land. For the new one about the Lilliputian empire, we have lots of countries that used to have empires but for example Iran isn't going to be asking Greece for its land back anytime soon. Say that it is widely believed Jeevooshians are Lilliputians' ancestors and the modern city is on Jeevoosh's ruins. When I write a draft, I'll write the exact text following some suggestions.

Options: The new option we created is bad because Lilliput is used in other issues, and let's say we conquer it and the next day, and then we have another later issue with Lilliput. Making a new foreign country is too dangerous as, unlike a unique city name, some other nation might use it in a future issue and then they have to deal with this. I also think we ought to provide reasons for the less patriotic options. For example, freeing Jeevoosh would show goodwill towards the heritage of Lilliput and would make @@NAME@@ look good on the world stage, and there should be a compromise solution that appeases Lilliput while keeping the part of the city we want. We could also have an option to make the city an independent country.
1) Lilliputian ambassador asking for recognition that this city is their nation's heritage and reasoning that it'll show @@NAME@@'s respect for Lilliputian culture and set a precedent of international goodwill. Anyone can steal land by claiming their ancestors owned it 3000 years ago.
2) Patriotic type declaring it to be a fake and demanding the destruction of the archaeological findings. Eminent domain consists of burning land deeds.
3) Even more patriotic type saying we should ban Jeevooshian culture and stamp out any dissent that should arise from that for the sake of stability. Ancient history is no longer included in history textbooks.
4) Let them celebrate Jeevooshian culture and make the city autonomous so people who have a cultural connection to Lilliput may be satisfied and @@NAME@@ can keep the land. @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ know that plastic has been used since ancient times because identical plastic columns have suddenly been found in every city in @@NAME@@.
5) Make it obvious that it's a silly option. The criterion is whether or not most of inhabitants of a household enjoy Jeevooshian folk music, which according to Survey Chimpanzee poll is half the population (Survey Monkey is a very inaccurate polling organization). Children are stopped at border checkpoints 200 times on their way to school.

Ancient city: Instead of being the current version of the ancient city, maybe the modern city could be built on top of the buried ruins of Jeevoosh.

Issue 719: I have encountered this issue although I didn't pay attention to the number. It's quite different from this, but I did get the idea for letting the citizens of the city be an independent country.

Writing mistakes: I'm a bit of a grammar nerd, so at the end, I can edit the final issue for grammar and flow and then post it to make sure I didn't miss any mistakes. Let's just focus on the content for now. When I have time tonight, I will write a new draft implementing all these ideas and taking into account subsequent feedback.

The problem is with the Lilliputian empire, is that empire conquer land. If the Lilliputians don't claim that the were the ORIGINAL inhabitants, then they can't legitimise their claims, instead, they will be another one of the many, many empires who owned Jeevoosh over the centuries
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions.
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Australian rePublic
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:03 am

Candensia wrote:State of the issue aside, I’d like to commend the collaboration and drafting process I’ve seen so far. Perseverance and hard work will get you far here, among other things. Keep at it, colleagues! :)

:hug:

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
Candensia wrote:State of the issue aside, I’d like to commend the collaboration and drafting process I’ve seen so far. Perseverance and hard work will get you far here, among other things. Keep at it, colleagues! :)


Yes, I agree with those wise words.


:hug:
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions.
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Radical Islamic Buddhism
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Founded: Aug 21, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Radical Islamic Buddhism » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:03 pm

Australian rePublic wrote: The problem is with the Lilliputian empire, is that empire conquer land. If the Lilliputians don't claim that the were the ORIGINAL inhabitants, then they can't legitimise their claims, instead, they will be another one of the many, many empires who owned Jeevoosh over the centuries


I think we're already scrapping the idea of a Lilliputian empire. The storyline should be that Lilliputians are descendents of the Jeevooshians and have somewhat similar cultures, which makes their claims somewhat legitimate.

Just because an empire ruled land doesn't mean it has a legit claim. For example, the British have no legit claim to America, Japan has no legit claim to Korea, and Spain has no legit claim to Rio Muni. However, for example, some French believe they descend from ancient Roman and Gallic culture, and certainly French culture was heavily influenced by the Latins and Gauls. Of course, in reality, France was founded by Germanic peoples, but the people still speak a Latin-based language and the dialect of the Gauls evolved into French. Thus the French have some Gaul heritage despite never having owned the Gauls.

All this means that the best way for Lilliput to claim Jeevooshian heritage is to have cultural influences from the ancient people so they can say their culture originates in Jeevoosh.
Last edited by Radical Islamic Buddhism on Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Australian rePublic
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:39 pm

Radical Islamic Buddhism wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote: The problem is with the Lilliputian empire, is that empire conquer land. If the Lilliputians don't claim that the were the ORIGINAL inhabitants, then they can't legitimise their claims, instead, they will be another one of the many, many empires who owned Jeevoosh over the centuries


I think we're already scrapping the idea of a Lilliputian empire. The storyline should be that Lilliputians are descendents of the Jeevooshians and have somewhat similar cultures, which makes their claims somewhat legitimate.

Just because an empire ruled land doesn't mean it has a legit claim. For example, the British have no legit claim to America, Japan has no legit claim to Korea, and Spain has no legit claim to Rio Muni. However, for example, some French believe they descend from ancient Roman and Gallic culture, and certainly French culture was heavily influenced by the Latins and Gauls. Of course, in reality, France was founded by Germanic peoples, but the people still speak a Latin-based language and the dialect of the Gauls evolved into French. Thus the French have some Gaul heritage despite never having owned the Gauls.

All this means that the best way for Lilliput to claim Jeevooshian heritage is to have cultural influences from the ancient people so they can say their culture originates in Jeevoosh.

The problem here is that Jeevooshian culture is wipped out and unknown. If we knew that the Jeevooshians had a similar culture to the Lilliputians, then it would be hard to discredit their claims. If it was different to Lilliputian culture, it would be hard to credit their claims. I just thought of something:
Jeevoosh had been rumoured to exist, but there was no evidence,. Recently, tablets were discovered written in the Ancient Lilliputian language:

Option 1. Yes, see ancient Lilliputian
Option 2. ALL local tribes spoke Ancient Lilliputian. All of them. And the modern decendants of Ancient Lilliputian are similar to eachother

Another dimension we could add to this is the Greece/Macedonia debate.

I don't like the concept of a Lilliputian Empire either.
I was thinking that we should change "Southwell" to "Red Hill" in order to avoid assuming that the border in the south of @@NAME@@
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions.
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Radical Islamic Buddhism
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Founded: Aug 21, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Radical Islamic Buddhism » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:33 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
Radical Islamic Buddhism wrote:
I think we're already scrapping the idea of a Lilliputian empire. The storyline should be that Lilliputians are descendents of the Jeevooshians and have somewhat similar cultures, which makes their claims somewhat legitimate.

Just because an empire ruled land doesn't mean it has a legit claim. For example, the British have no legit claim to America, Japan has no legit claim to Korea, and Spain has no legit claim to Rio Muni. However, for example, some French believe they descend from ancient Roman and Gallic culture, and certainly French culture was heavily influenced by the Latins and Gauls. Of course, in reality, France was founded by Germanic peoples, but the people still speak a Latin-based language and the dialect of the Gauls evolved into French. Thus the French have some Gaul heritage despite never having owned the Gauls.

All this means that the best way for Lilliput to claim Jeevooshian heritage is to have cultural influences from the ancient people so they can say their culture originates in Jeevoosh.

The problem here is that Jeevooshian culture is wipped out and unknown. If we knew that the Jeevooshians had a similar culture to the Lilliputians, then it would be hard to discredit their claims. If it was different to Lilliputian culture, it would be hard to credit their claims. I just thought of something:
Jeevoosh had been rumoured to exist, but there was no evidence,. Recently, tablets were discovered written in the Ancient Lilliputian language:

Option 1. Yes, see ancient Lilliputian
Option 2. ALL local tribes spoke Ancient Lilliputian. All of them. And the modern decendants of Ancient Lilliputian are similar to eachother

Another dimension we could add to this is the Greece/Macedonia debate.

I don't like the concept of a Lilliputian Empire either.
I was thinking that we should change "Southwell" to "Red Hill" in order to avoid assuming that the border in the south of @@NAME@@


I like that idea a lot! Just a tweak: instead of saying there is no evidence, say there is limited evidence. Otherwise it just sounds like a wild fairy tale. Then, Jeevooshian tablets are discovered. Written in a language vaguely similar to Lilliputian, the tablets are a message for a visiting king, describing Jeevooshian culture, which has many similarities to Lilliputian culture. There is already a theory that the Jeevooshians were the missing ancestors of the Lilliputians, and this new evidence led the gov't of Lilliput to "reclaim" Jeevoosh.

As for the city name, Red Hill is better because it's more generic than Southwell, but what if we named it @@ANIMAL@@ Hill and called it a town instead of a city?

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Radical Islamic Buddhism
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Ex-Nation

ISSUE IDEA: Save Jeeboosh

Postby Radical Islamic Buddhism » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:24 pm

Possible titles:
The City God Gave to Us
Lilliputian or Lilleevooshian?
Can’t Swallow that Tablet

[desc]An ancient city-state called Jeevoosh had been rumored to exist within the territory of @@NAME@@, but the evidence for Jeevoosh is sketchy at best. Recently, archaeologists discovered stone tablets in the border town of @@ANIMAL@@ Hill. Written in a language vaguely similar to Lilliputian, the tablets were a message for a visiting king, describing Jeevooshian culture, which has many similarities to Lilliputian culture.

[validity]Co-Authored by Radical Islamic Buddhism, must allow private property

[option] “This land is mine, God gave this land to me,” crows @@RANDOMNAME@@, the ambassador from Lilliput. He stops singing and proudly shouts, “There has long been a theory that Jeevoosh was the missing link between prehistoric cultures and modern Lilliputian culture. Now, we have proof! There’s even a Jeevooshian festival in @@ANIMAL@@ Hill once a yeay, so obviously the people still retain sooo much of their traditional Jeevooshian culture. Free Jeevoosh to where it belongs, and Lilliput shall have its heritage back! Plus, it’ll show international goodwill and peaceful cooperation between our nations.”
[effect] Aggressive foreign countries have annexed 90% of @@NAME@@’s territory by claiming their ancestors lived there 3000 years ago.

[option] "These claims are totally baseless!" sneers @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Patriotism. "@@ANIMAL@@ Hill is formally recognized as a part of our country, and Lilliput is violating our territorial integrity. Everyone knows the Lilliputians are from the mountains on the opposite end of @@REGION@@! And even if they used to be Jeevooshians, they’re not anymore and are just doing this in order to legitimize their blatant imperialism! Why are we even taking them seriously, @@LEADER@@?”
[effect] Burning land deeds and claiming nobody ever owned the land has replaced eminent domain in @@NAME@@.

[option] “That’s not enough, @@LEADER@@,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, the Minster of Extreme Patriotism. The people of @@ANIMAL@@ Hill celebrate the myth of a powerful, mythical city-state for fun, but now it looks like we might lose the whole town of @@ANIMAL@@ Hill because of this stupid myth. Put an end to it! I propose we ban all references to Jeevooshian culture or any ancient culture some idiot country can use to claim our land!” @@HE@@ throws a @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ flag at you as @@HE@@ leaves the room.
[effect] Ancient history is no longer included in textbooks.

[option] Cheep Haggles, a so-called ‘compromise enthusiast,’ stumbles into your room, looking extremely exhausted. “Uhhh, ya know what…oh, I’m so tired…why don’t we just rename it Jeevoosh and make the town autonomous?” Cheep yawns loudly and continues, “That way, both countries are happy and the citizens get freedom to acknowledge the great history behind that part of @@NAME@@...” Cheep falls asleep on the floor.
[effect] Libertarians in every city, town and village in @@NAME@@ have suddenly discovered “ancient” tablets with unintelligible writing which “totally” aren’t fake.

[option] “Let’s just chill,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Creative Solutions, while drawing lines all over your office. “According to the tablet, the flag of Jeevoosh was fully purple to show off the city's wealth. Incidentally, purple houses are half the houses in @@ANIMAL@@ Hill. Let’s give the purple houses to Lilliput to show our respect for their heritage, and let’s keep the non-purple houses. What could possibly go wrong?!”
[effect] Children are stopped at border checkpoints 200 times on their way to school.

I will edit for typos later.

PS I actually think Red Hill might be better than @@ANIMAL@@ Hill for an issue, but that name isn’t inclusive to all nations. For example, a green, lush nation or a nation of flat plains wouldn’t have Red Hill. If we can overlook this, then let’s go with Red Hill. However, @@ANIMAL@@ Hill adds a personal touch whereas Red Hill for every single nation is generic-sounding. I’ll await Australia’s opinion on that

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Australian rePublic
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:43 pm

Radical Islamic Buddhism wrote:Possible titles:
The City God Gave to Us
Lilliputian or Lilleevooshian?
Can’t Swallow that Tablet

[desc]An ancient city-state called Jeevoosh had been rumored to exist within the territory of @@NAME@@, but the evidence for Jeevoosh is sketchy at best. Recently, archaeologists discovered stone tablets in the border town of @@ANIMAL@@ Hill. Written in a language vaguely similar to Lilliputian, the tablets were a message for a visiting king, describing Jeevooshian culture, which has many similarities to Lilliputian culture.

[validity]Co-Authored by Radical Islamic Buddhism, must allow private property

[option] “This land is mine, God gave this land to me,” crows @@RANDOMNAME@@, the ambassador from Lilliput. He stops singing and proudly shouts, “There has long been a theory that Jeevoosh was the missing link between prehistoric cultures and modern Lilliputian culture. Now, we have proof! There’s even a Jeevooshian festival in @@ANIMAL@@ Hill once a yeay, so obviously the people still retain sooo much of their traditional Jeevooshian culture. Free Jeevoosh to where it belongs, and Lilliput shall have its heritage back! Plus, it’ll show international goodwill and peaceful cooperation between our nations.”
[effect] Aggressive foreign countries have annexed 90% of @@NAME@@’s territory by claiming their ancestors lived there 3000 years ago.

[option] "These claims are totally baseless!" sneers @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Patriotism. "@@ANIMAL@@ Hill is formally recognized as a part of our country, and Lilliput is violating our territorial integrity. Everyone knows the Lilliputians are from the mountains on the opposite end of @@REGION@@! And even if they used to be Jeevooshians, they’re not anymore and are just doing this in order to legitimize their blatant imperialism! Why are we even taking them seriously, @@LEADER@@?”
[effect] Burning land deeds and claiming nobody ever owned the land has replaced eminent domain in @@NAME@@.

[option] “That’s not enough, @@LEADER@@,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, the Minster of Extreme Patriotism. The people of @@ANIMAL@@ Hill celebrate the myth of a powerful, mythical city-state for fun, but now it looks like we might lose the whole town of @@ANIMAL@@ Hill because of this stupid myth. Put an end to it! I propose we ban all references to Jeevooshian culture or any ancient culture some idiot country can use to claim our land!” @@HE@@ throws a @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ flag at you as @@HE@@ leaves the room.
[effect] Ancient history is no longer included in textbooks.

[option] Cheep Haggles, a so-called ‘compromise enthusiast,’ stumbles into your room, looking extremely exhausted. “Uhhh, ya know what…oh, I’m so tired…why don’t we just rename it Jeevoosh and make the town autonomous?” Cheep yawns loudly and continues, “That way, both countries are happy and the citizens get freedom to acknowledge the great history behind that part of @@NAME@@...” Cheep falls asleep on the floor.
[effect] Libertarians in every city, town and village in @@NAME@@ have suddenly discovered “ancient” tablets with unintelligible writing which “totally” aren’t fake.

[option] “Let’s just chill,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Creative Solutions, while drawing lines all over your office. “According to the tablet, the flag of Jeevoosh was fully purple to show off the city's wealth. Incidentally, purple houses are half the houses in @@ANIMAL@@ Hill. Let’s give the purple houses to Lilliput to show our respect for their heritage, and let’s keep the non-purple houses. What could possibly go wrong?!”
[effect] Children are stopped at border checkpoints 200 times on their way to school.

I will edit for typos later.

PS I actually think Red Hill might be better than @@ANIMAL@@ Hill for an issue, but that name isn’t inclusive to all nations. For example, a green, lush nation or a nation of flat plains wouldn’t have Red Hill. If we can overlook this, then let’s go with Red Hill. However, @@ANIMAL@@ Hill adds a personal touch whereas Red Hill for every single nation is generic-sounding. I’ll await Australia’s opinion on that

@@ANIMAL@@ Hills is used in Issue 664 depicting a DIFFERENT indigenous community. Red Hill on the other hand could be more generic. Red could be anything; desert, roses, poppies, geraniums, or even the blood of people who died there.

Also, tablets are quite small, the tools used to carve them are big and thus, tablets can only contain so much information. Besides, a tablet wpuldn't write "this is what our flag looked like" the people would already know. Ancient records writings were there to convey information that the people didn't know (or prayers to the gods), not maundaine information that people already knew. Writing on tablets was expensive AF. Besides, the vagueness of the tablet is what the issue is about. If the cculture is well documented, it defeats the purpose of the issue.
As for the rest, me likely. Me likely a lot
Your contribution to this issue is excellent! Thanks so much
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions.
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Radical Islamic Buddhism
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Founded: Aug 21, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Radical Islamic Buddhism » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:56 pm

Ok then, let's use Red Hill. And I will change the tablet stuff... apparently tablets were used to write laws, literature and stuff, so the Jeevooshian tablet will be literature. One other thing is the Jeevooshian festival, which I think is the justification for why Lilliput thinks the Red Hill people are Jeevooshians.


Possible titles:
The City God Gave to Us
Lilliputian or Lilleevooshian?
Can’t Swallow that Tablet

[desc]An ancient city-state called Jeevoosh had been rumored to exist within the territory of @@NAME@@, but the evidence for Jeevoosh is sketchy at best. Recently, archaeologists discovered stone tablets in the border town of Red Hill. Written in a language vaguely resembling Lilliputian, the tablets are an epic poem with a plot similar to the famous Lilliputian epic, “The King of Books.”

[validity]Co-Authored by Radical Islamic Buddhism, must allow private property

[option] “This land is mine, God gave this land to me,” crows @@RANDOMNAME@@, the ambassador from Lilliput. He stops singing and proudly shouts, “There has long been a theory that Jeevoosh was the missing link between prehistoric cultures and modern Lilliputian culture. Now, we have proof in the language and literature! There’s even a Jeevooshian festival in Red Hill once a year, so obviously the people still retain sooo much of their traditional Jeevooshian culture. Free Jeevoosh to where it belongs, and Lilliput shall have its heritage back! Plus, it’ll show international goodwill and peaceful cooperation between our nations.”
[effect] Aggressive foreign countries have annexed 90% of @@NAME@@’s territory by claiming their ancestors lived there 3000 years ago.

[option] "These claims are totally baseless!" sneers @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Patriotism.” Red Hill is formally recognized as a part of our country, and Lilliput is violating our territorial integrity. Everyone knows the Lilliputians are from the mountains on the opposite end of @@REGION@@! And even if they used to be Jeevooshians, they’re not anymore and are just doing this in order to legitimize their blatant imperialism! Why are we even taking them seriously, @@LEADER@@?”
[effect] Burning land deeds and claiming nobody ever owned the land has replaced eminent domain in @@NAME@@.

[option] “That’s not enough, @@LEADER@@,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, the Minster of Extreme Patriotism. The people of Red Hill celebrate the myth of a powerful, mythical city-state for fun, but now it looks like we might lose the whole town of Red Hill because of this stupid myth. Put an end to it! I propose we ban all references to Jeevooshian culture or any ancient culture some idiot country can use to claim our land!” @@HE@@ throws a @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ flag at you as @@HE@@ leaves the room.
[effect] Ancient history is no longer included in textbooks.

[option] Cheep Haggles, a so-called ‘compromise enthusiast,’ stumbles into your room, looking extremely exhausted. “Uhhh, ya know what…oh, I’m so tired…why don’t we just rename it Jeevoosh and make the town autonomous?” Cheep yawns loudly and continues, “That way, both countries are happy and the citizens get freedom to acknowledge the great history behind that part of @@NAME@@...” Cheep falls asleep on the floor.
[effect] Libertarians in every city, town and village in @@NAME@@ have suddenly discovered “ancient” tablets with unintelligible writing which “definitely” aren’t fake.

[option] “Let’s just chill,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Creative Solutions, while drawing lines all over your office. “According to the tablet, the flag of Jeevoosh was fully purple to show off the city's wealth. Incidentally, half the houses in Red Hill are purple! Let’s give the purple houses to Lilliput to show our respect for their heritage, and let’s keep the non-purple houses. What could possibly go wrong?!”
[effect] Children are stopped at border checkpoints 200 times on their way to school.
Last edited by Radical Islamic Buddhism on Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Australian rePublic
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Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:45 pm

Excellent, I'm very happy with this. Let' have some minor changes:
Number 1- all languages evolve. This is an undisputable fact. The language argument could be that Modern Lilliputian evolved from ten language written on that tablet, vs ALL languages in that evolved from that language
Number 2-Option 1, how do we know that anyone celebrates Jeevooshian festivals, if we don't know what these festivals are?
Number 3- Effect lines go on the end of sentences, and this do NOT start with capital letters
Number 4- effect lines have to make sense to people who don't know what the context of the issue is. Keeping that in mins, can we please have a new line effect for option 4. Something along the lines of "cities towns and villiages across the nation are creatin fake ancient monuments to justify their indipendance movements"

Sorry of this seems rude. I am a person who's direct and to-the-point. It may seem rude sometimes, and I appologise for that
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nazi Flower Power
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Ex-Nation

Postby Nazi Flower Power » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:01 pm

Radical Islamic Buddhism wrote:Lilliputian or Lilleevooshian?


Can we not please? Try to keep the made-up words to a minimum.

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Radical Islamic Buddhism
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Founded: Aug 21, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Radical Islamic Buddhism » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:02 pm

@Australia no you're not being rude, I prefer to-the-point messages. Also, I think the language thing is fine as it indicates Jeevooshian is an ancestor of Lilliputian. I'll say Lilliputian is an isolate language.
@NFP you're right, and furthermore, the one about God excludes people who don't get the reference.

[title]Can't Swallow that Tablet

[desc]An ancient city-state called Jeevoosh had been rumored to exist within the territory of @@NAME@@, but the evidence for Jeevoosh is sketchy at best. Recently, archaeologists discovered stone tablets in the border town of Red Hill. Written in a language vaguely resembling Lilliputian, the tablets are an epic poem with a plot similar to the famous Lilliputian epic, “The King of Books.” Because Lilliputian is unrelated to any other known language,

[validity]Co-Authored by Radical Islamic Buddhism, must allow private property

[option] “This land is mine, God gave this land to me,” crows @@RANDOMNAME@@, the ambassador from Lilliput. He stops singing and proudly shouts, “There has long been a theory that Jeevoosh was the missing link between prehistoric cultures and modern Lilliputian culture. Now, we have proof in the language and literature! They even put the Jeevooshian tablet on display in the town square, so obviously the people still retain sooo much of their traditional Jeevooshian culture. Free Jeevoosh to where it belongs, and Lilliput shall have its heritage back! Plus, it’ll show international goodwill and peaceful cooperation between our nations.”
[effect] Aggressive foreign countries have annexed 90% of @@NAME@@’s territory by claiming their ancestors lived there 3000 years ago.

[option] "These claims are totally baseless!" sneers @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Patriotism.” Red Hill is formally recognized as a part of our country, and Lilliput is violating our territorial integrity. Everyone knows the Lilliputians are from the mountains on the opposite end of @@REGION@@! And even if they used to be Jeevooshians, they’re not anymore and are just doing this in order to legitimize their blatant imperialism! Why are we even taking them seriously, @@LEADER@@?”
[effect] burning land deeds and claiming nobody ever owned the land has replaced eminent domain in @@NAME@@.

[option] “That’s not enough, @@LEADER@@,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, the Minster of Extreme Patriotism. The people of Red Hill celebrate the myth of a powerful, mythical city-state for fun by showing off this random old rock with letters on it, but now it looks like we might lose the whole town of Red Hill because of this stupid myth. Put an end to it! I propose we ban all references to Jeevooshian culture or any ancient culture some idiot country can use to claim our land! Nobody cares if your linguistic ancestors lived there millennia ago!” @@HE@@ throws a @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ flag at you as @@HE@@ leaves the room.
[effect] ancient history is no longer included in textbooks.

[option] Cheep Haggles, a so-called ‘compromise enthusiast,’ stumbles into your room, looking extremely exhausted. “Uhhh, ya know what…oh, I’m so tired…why don’t we just rename it Jeevoosh and make the town autonomous?” Cheep yawns loudly and continues, “That way, both countries are happy and the citizens get freedom to acknowledge the great history behind that part of @@NAME@@...” Cheep falls asleep on the floor.
[effect] liberty-lovers across @@NAME@@ have opened up an industry for creating fake ancient monuments.

[option] “Let’s just chill,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Creative Solutions, while drawing lines all over your office. “According to the tablet, the flag of Jeevoosh was fully purple to show off the city's wealth. Incidentally, half the houses in Red Hill are purple! Let’s give the purple houses to Lilliput to show our respect for their heritage, and let’s keep the non-purple houses. What could possibly go wrong?!”
[effect] children are stopped at border checkpoints 200 times on their way to school.

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Australian rePublic
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:34 pm

Radical Islamic Buddhism wrote:@Australia no you're not being rude, I prefer to-the-point messages. Also, I think the language thing is fine as it indicates Jeevooshian is an ancestor of Lilliputian. I'll say Lilliputian is an isolate language.
@NFP you're right, and furthermore, the one about God excludes people who don't get the reference.

[title]Can't Swallow that Tablet

[desc]An ancient city-state called Jeevoosh had been rumored to exist within the territory of @@NAME@@, but the evidence for Jeevoosh is sketchy at best. Recently, archaeologists discovered stone tablets in the border town of Red Hill. Written in a language vaguely resembling Lilliputian, the tablets are an epic poem with a plot similar to the famous Lilliputian epic, “The King of Books.” Because Lilliputian is unrelated to any other known language,

[validity]Co-Authored by Radical Islamic Buddhism, must allow private property

[option] “This land is mine, God gave this land to me,” crows @@RANDOMNAME@@, the ambassador from Lilliput. He stops singing and proudly shouts, “There has long been a theory that Jeevoosh was the missing link between prehistoric cultures and modern Lilliputian culture. Now, we have proof in the language and literature! They even put the Jeevooshian tablet on display in the town square, so obviously the people still retain sooo much of their traditional Jeevooshian culture. Free Jeevoosh to where it belongs, and Lilliput shall have its heritage back! Plus, it’ll show international goodwill and peaceful cooperation between our nations.”
[effect] Aggressive foreign countries have annexed 90% of @@NAME@@’s territory by claiming their ancestors lived there 3000 years ago.

[option] "These claims are totally baseless!" sneers @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Patriotism.” Red Hill is formally recognized as a part of our country, and Lilliput is violating our territorial integrity. Everyone knows the Lilliputians are from the mountains on the opposite end of @@REGION@@! And even if they used to be Jeevooshians, they’re not anymore and are just doing this in order to legitimize their blatant imperialism! Why are we even taking them seriously, @@LEADER@@?”
[effect] burning land deeds and claiming nobody ever owned the land has replaced eminent domain in @@NAME@@.

[option] “That’s not enough, @@LEADER@@,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, the Minster of Extreme Patriotism. The people of Red Hill celebrate the myth of a powerful, mythical city-state for fun by showing off this random old rock with letters on it, but now it looks like we might lose the whole town of Red Hill because of this stupid myth. Put an end to it! I propose we ban all references to Jeevooshian culture or any ancient culture some idiot country can use to claim our land! Nobody cares if your linguistic ancestors lived there millennia ago!” @@HE@@ throws a @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ flag at you as @@HE@@ leaves the room.
[effect] ancient history is no longer included in textbooks.

[option] Cheep Haggles, a so-called ‘compromise enthusiast,’ stumbles into your room, looking extremely exhausted. “Uhhh, ya know what…oh, I’m so tired…why don’t we just rename it Jeevoosh and make the town autonomous?” Cheep yawns loudly and continues, “That way, both countries are happy and the citizens get freedom to acknowledge the great history behind that part of @@NAME@@...” Cheep falls asleep on the floor.
[effect] liberty-lovers across @@NAME@@ have opened up an industry for creating fake ancient monuments.

[option] “Let’s just chill,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Creative Solutions, while drawing lines all over your office. “According to the tablet, the flag of Jeevoosh was fully purple to show off the city's wealth. Incidentally, half the houses in Red Hill are purple! Let’s give the purple houses to Lilliput to show our respect for their heritage, and let’s keep the non-purple houses. What could possibly go wrong?!”
[effect] children are stopped at border checkpoints 200 times on their way to school.

I love it. I'm putting it the current draft! Thanks for your help. I'm gonna make a few minor edits though. Feel free to agree or disagree with them, they will be in the OP.
Also, a side note, please use straight commas, appostrophes and quotation marks, instead of the round ones, but for this issue, I'll fix it up for you. Don't worry about it
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Radical Islamic Buddhism
Secretary
 
Posts: 34
Founded: Aug 21, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Radical Islamic Buddhism » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:26 pm

Australia, it sounds good, but there is just one thing that is not working at all. Delete part of option 2 that you added:

Further, all the local tribes in the area spoke Ancient Lilliputian, even the @@DENONYMADJECTIVE@@ ones. Modern Lilliputian evolved after the mass migration of the Liliputians.


This implies that Jeevooshian and Ancient Lilliputian are both ancestors of Modern Lilliputian, which gets too confusing because they are then the same language incidentally. I also suggest in option 1 that there is a "missing link between prehistoric cultures and modern Lilliputian culture" to which this is a contradiction. If you delete the part I quoted above, the issue should be good.

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Australian rePublic
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Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:30 pm

Radical Islamic Buddhism wrote:Australia, it sounds good, but there is just one thing that is not working at all. Delete part of option 2 that you added:

Further, all the local tribes in the area spoke Ancient Lilliputian, even the @@DENONYMADJECTIVE@@ ones. Modern Lilliputian evolved after the mass migration of the Liliputians.


This implies that Jeevooshian and Ancient Lilliputian are both ancestors of Modern Lilliputian, which gets too confusing because they are then the same language incidentally. I also suggest in option 1 that there is a "missing link between prehistoric cultures and modern Lilliputian culture" to which this is a contradiction. If you delete the part I quoted above, the issue should be good.

Cheers. I'll put your most recent version and declare it as "Last Call" (except for a few minor edits). I'll telegram you before posting
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions.
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USS Monitor
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Posts: 26440
Founded: Jul 01, 2015
19th Century Iron Steamship

Postby USS Monitor » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:39 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:[desc] An ancient city-state called Jeevoosh had been rumored to exist within the territory of @@NAME@@, but the evidence for Jeevoosh is sketchy at best. Recently, archaeologists discovered stone tablets in the border town of Red Hill. Written in a language which seems to be the ansestor of Modern Lilliputian, the tablets are an epic poem with a plot similar to the famous Lilliputian epic, "The King of Books."


After reading this far, it is not clear what the dilemma is.

This would be fine as an opening to an RP post, but as an issue it's too much world-building, not enough plot.
Don't take life so serious... it isn't permanent... RIP Dyakovo and Ashmoria
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༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།

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Australian rePublic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14327
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:51 pm

USS Monitor wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:[desc] An ancient city-state called Jeevoosh had been rumored to exist within the territory of @@NAME@@, but the evidence for Jeevoosh is sketchy at best. Recently, archaeologists discovered stone tablets in the border town of Red Hill. Written in a language which seems to be the ansestor of Modern Lilliputian, the tablets are an epic poem with a plot similar to the famous Lilliputian epic, "The King of Books."


After reading this far, it is not clear what the dilemma is.

This would be fine as an opening to an RP post, but as an issue it's too much world-building, not enough plot.

Damn. I'll try to fix it myself and see what RIB thinks
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions.
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Radical Islamic Buddhism
Secretary
 
Posts: 34
Founded: Aug 21, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Radical Islamic Buddhism » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:41 pm

[desc]An ancient city-state called Jeevoosh had been rumored to exist within the territory of @@NAME@@, but the evidence for Jeevoosh is sketchy at best. Recently, archaeologists discovered stone tablets in the border town of Red Hill. Written in a language that seems to be the ancestor of Lilliputian, the tablets are an epic poem with a plot similar to the famous Lilliputian epic, “The King of Books.” The government of Lilliput has proclaimed Jeevoosh to be Lilliput's ancient heritage and wants to reclaim their newly discovered homeland.

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USS Monitor
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Founded: Jul 01, 2015
19th Century Iron Steamship

Postby USS Monitor » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:00 pm

It's long...
Don't take life so serious... it isn't permanent... RIP Dyakovo and Ashmoria
~~One Stop Rules Shop (OSRS)~~Getting Help (GHR)~~
༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།

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Rusthenia
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Posts: 242
Founded: Jun 12, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Rusthenia » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:31 am

USS Monitor wrote:It's long...


it really has to be long.
USS Monitor wrote:It's long...
★ The Socialist Soviet Republic of Rusthenia ✷ Socialističeskaja Sovetskaja Respublika russenia★
✷ an Marxist-Leninist state in Eurasian and the Alaskan Peninsula led by Premier Vassili Karantiro★
Moskva Chronicle: The Polish Autonomous Commune becomes the Polish SSR alongside the Finnish SSR and Northern Persian SSR. US Pres Jeffrey Clark Announces summit with Rusthenian leader Vassili Karantirov. Premier Vassili Karantiro becomes Premier after Coup 
International Coverage: Imperial Persia demands the Northern Persian SSR and for the Southern Persian Republic be annexed. The Turks renounce their claim on Eastern Thrace.

NStats not used. this nation isn't my political views.

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