Candlewhisper Archive wrote:You may want to proof-read that. Lots of spelling mistakes, and lots of text which refers to earlier versions.
And seriously, see if you can lose the words Jeevosh and Red Hill some how.
Thanks!
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by Australian rePublic » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:54 am
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:You may want to proof-read that. Lots of spelling mistakes, and lots of text which refers to earlier versions.
And seriously, see if you can lose the words Jeevosh and Red Hill some how.
by Australian rePublic » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:54 am
USS Monitor wrote:Australian rePublic wrote:The problem with using @@CAPITAL@@ is that it's possible that @@CAPITAL@@ was a purpose-built city. Especially as many federations do this in order to avoid showing favouritism amongst the states, so that the capital is in a neutral territory. I believe that telling the player the history of their capital is a violation of player autonomy, whilst a random city on the other hand, is a different matter, as most countries would have mant cities, each with their own, individual capitals. Anyway, I wrote a new draft which I will post in the next post. I'll wait for RIB's edits before posting on the first page
A purpose-built capital could still have ruins under it. Maybe the ruins were buried and people didn't know they were there, but they still noticed that it was a geographically logical place to build a city.
by Krogon » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:00 pm
by Radical Islamic Buddhism » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:45 pm
by Candensia » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:03 pm
The Free Joy State wrote:Time spent working on writing skills -- even if the draft doesn't work -- is never wasted.
by Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:25 am
Candensia wrote:State of the issue aside, I’d like to commend the collaboration and drafting process I’ve seen so far. Perseverance and hard work will get you far here, among other things. Keep at it, colleagues!
by Australian rePublic » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:02 am
Radical Islamic Buddhism wrote:The major issues and my opinions on them! Note: Sorry for the long post.
City name: I think after weighing this, use a random name or a unique name we pick like Southwell. My reasoning is that we must use a unique name so that if the player gives it to Lilliput, it won't appear in the future. For example we might give @@CAPITAL@@ to Lilliput, then the next day we deal with riots in @@CAPITAL@@, which we don't own anymore, so that doesn't make sense. Also, giving the capital away means we must create a new capital for our government, but there is no way to do that in NationStates. The problem with @@ANIMAL@@ City is also that we might encounter it again.
Description: I liked the idea of Jeevoosh better because it actually has analogs in real life such as the Palestinians, Lebanese, Turks, Egyptians, etc. claiming to be descendants of an ancient culture from their land. For the new one about the Lilliputian empire, we have lots of countries that used to have empires but for example Iran isn't going to be asking Greece for its land back anytime soon. Say that it is widely believed Jeevooshians are Lilliputians' ancestors and the modern city is on Jeevoosh's ruins. When I write a draft, I'll write the exact text following some suggestions.
Options: The new option we created is bad because Lilliput is used in other issues, and let's say we conquer it and the next day, and then we have another later issue with Lilliput. Making a new foreign country is too dangerous as, unlike a unique city name, some other nation might use it in a future issue and then they have to deal with this. I also think we ought to provide reasons for the less patriotic options. For example, freeing Jeevoosh would show goodwill towards the heritage of Lilliput and would make @@NAME@@ look good on the world stage, and there should be a compromise solution that appeases Lilliput while keeping the part of the city we want. We could also have an option to make the city an independent country.
1) Lilliputian ambassador asking for recognition that this city is their nation's heritage and reasoning that it'll show @@NAME@@'s respect for Lilliputian culture and set a precedent of international goodwill. Anyone can steal land by claiming their ancestors owned it 3000 years ago.
2) Patriotic type declaring it to be a fake and demanding the destruction of the archaeological findings. Eminent domain consists of burning land deeds.
3) Even more patriotic type saying we should ban Jeevooshian culture and stamp out any dissent that should arise from that for the sake of stability. Ancient history is no longer included in history textbooks.
4) Let them celebrate Jeevooshian culture and make the city autonomous so people who have a cultural connection to Lilliput may be satisfied and @@NAME@@ can keep the land. @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ know that plastic has been used since ancient times because identical plastic columns have suddenly been found in every city in @@NAME@@.
5) Make it obvious that it's a silly option. The criterion is whether or not most of inhabitants of a household enjoy Jeevooshian folk music, which according to Survey Chimpanzee poll is half the population (Survey Monkey is a very inaccurate polling organization). Children are stopped at border checkpoints 200 times on their way to school.
Ancient city: Instead of being the current version of the ancient city, maybe the modern city could be built on top of the buried ruins of Jeevoosh.
Issue 719: I have encountered this issue although I didn't pay attention to the number. It's quite different from this, but I did get the idea for letting the citizens of the city be an independent country.
Writing mistakes: I'm a bit of a grammar nerd, so at the end, I can edit the final issue for grammar and flow and then post it to make sure I didn't miss any mistakes. Let's just focus on the content for now. When I have time tonight, I will write a new draft implementing all these ideas and taking into account subsequent feedback.
by Australian rePublic » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:03 am
Candensia wrote:State of the issue aside, I’d like to commend the collaboration and drafting process I’ve seen so far. Perseverance and hard work will get you far here, among other things. Keep at it, colleagues!
by Radical Islamic Buddhism » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:03 pm
Australian rePublic wrote: The problem is with the Lilliputian empire, is that empire conquer land. If the Lilliputians don't claim that the were the ORIGINAL inhabitants, then they can't legitimise their claims, instead, they will be another one of the many, many empires who owned Jeevoosh over the centuries
by Australian rePublic » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:39 pm
Radical Islamic Buddhism wrote:Australian rePublic wrote: The problem is with the Lilliputian empire, is that empire conquer land. If the Lilliputians don't claim that the were the ORIGINAL inhabitants, then they can't legitimise their claims, instead, they will be another one of the many, many empires who owned Jeevoosh over the centuries
I think we're already scrapping the idea of a Lilliputian empire. The storyline should be that Lilliputians are descendents of the Jeevooshians and have somewhat similar cultures, which makes their claims somewhat legitimate.
Just because an empire ruled land doesn't mean it has a legit claim. For example, the British have no legit claim to America, Japan has no legit claim to Korea, and Spain has no legit claim to Rio Muni. However, for example, some French believe they descend from ancient Roman and Gallic culture, and certainly French culture was heavily influenced by the Latins and Gauls. Of course, in reality, France was founded by Germanic peoples, but the people still speak a Latin-based language and the dialect of the Gauls evolved into French. Thus the French have some Gaul heritage despite never having owned the Gauls.
All this means that the best way for Lilliput to claim Jeevooshian heritage is to have cultural influences from the ancient people so they can say their culture originates in Jeevoosh.
by Radical Islamic Buddhism » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:33 pm
Australian rePublic wrote:Radical Islamic Buddhism wrote:
I think we're already scrapping the idea of a Lilliputian empire. The storyline should be that Lilliputians are descendents of the Jeevooshians and have somewhat similar cultures, which makes their claims somewhat legitimate.
Just because an empire ruled land doesn't mean it has a legit claim. For example, the British have no legit claim to America, Japan has no legit claim to Korea, and Spain has no legit claim to Rio Muni. However, for example, some French believe they descend from ancient Roman and Gallic culture, and certainly French culture was heavily influenced by the Latins and Gauls. Of course, in reality, France was founded by Germanic peoples, but the people still speak a Latin-based language and the dialect of the Gauls evolved into French. Thus the French have some Gaul heritage despite never having owned the Gauls.
All this means that the best way for Lilliput to claim Jeevooshian heritage is to have cultural influences from the ancient people so they can say their culture originates in Jeevoosh.
The problem here is that Jeevooshian culture is wipped out and unknown. If we knew that the Jeevooshians had a similar culture to the Lilliputians, then it would be hard to discredit their claims. If it was different to Lilliputian culture, it would be hard to credit their claims. I just thought of something:
Jeevoosh had been rumoured to exist, but there was no evidence,. Recently, tablets were discovered written in the Ancient Lilliputian language:
Option 1. Yes, see ancient Lilliputian
Option 2. ALL local tribes spoke Ancient Lilliputian. All of them. And the modern decendants of Ancient Lilliputian are similar to eachother
Another dimension we could add to this is the Greece/Macedonia debate.
I don't like the concept of a Lilliputian Empire either.
I was thinking that we should change "Southwell" to "Red Hill" in order to avoid assuming that the border in the south of @@NAME@@
by Radical Islamic Buddhism » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:24 pm
by Australian rePublic » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:43 pm
Radical Islamic Buddhism wrote:Possible titles:
The City God Gave to Us
Lilliputian or Lilleevooshian?
Can’t Swallow that Tablet
[desc]An ancient city-state called Jeevoosh had been rumored to exist within the territory of @@NAME@@, but the evidence for Jeevoosh is sketchy at best. Recently, archaeologists discovered stone tablets in the border town of @@ANIMAL@@ Hill. Written in a language vaguely similar to Lilliputian, the tablets were a message for a visiting king, describing Jeevooshian culture, which has many similarities to Lilliputian culture.
[validity]Co-Authored by Radical Islamic Buddhism, must allow private property
[option] “This land is mine, God gave this land to me,” crows @@RANDOMNAME@@, the ambassador from Lilliput. He stops singing and proudly shouts, “There has long been a theory that Jeevoosh was the missing link between prehistoric cultures and modern Lilliputian culture. Now, we have proof! There’s even a Jeevooshian festival in @@ANIMAL@@ Hill once a yeay, so obviously the people still retain sooo much of their traditional Jeevooshian culture. Free Jeevoosh to where it belongs, and Lilliput shall have its heritage back! Plus, it’ll show international goodwill and peaceful cooperation between our nations.”
[effect] Aggressive foreign countries have annexed 90% of @@NAME@@’s territory by claiming their ancestors lived there 3000 years ago.
[option] "These claims are totally baseless!" sneers @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Patriotism. "@@ANIMAL@@ Hill is formally recognized as a part of our country, and Lilliput is violating our territorial integrity. Everyone knows the Lilliputians are from the mountains on the opposite end of @@REGION@@! And even if they used to be Jeevooshians, they’re not anymore and are just doing this in order to legitimize their blatant imperialism! Why are we even taking them seriously, @@LEADER@@?”
[effect] Burning land deeds and claiming nobody ever owned the land has replaced eminent domain in @@NAME@@.
[option] “That’s not enough, @@LEADER@@,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, the Minster of Extreme Patriotism. The people of @@ANIMAL@@ Hill celebrate the myth of a powerful, mythical city-state for fun, but now it looks like we might lose the whole town of @@ANIMAL@@ Hill because of this stupid myth. Put an end to it! I propose we ban all references to Jeevooshian culture or any ancient culture some idiot country can use to claim our land!” @@HE@@ throws a @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ flag at you as @@HE@@ leaves the room.
[effect] Ancient history is no longer included in textbooks.
[option] Cheep Haggles, a so-called ‘compromise enthusiast,’ stumbles into your room, looking extremely exhausted. “Uhhh, ya know what…oh, I’m so tired…why don’t we just rename it Jeevoosh and make the town autonomous?” Cheep yawns loudly and continues, “That way, both countries are happy and the citizens get freedom to acknowledge the great history behind that part of @@NAME@@...” Cheep falls asleep on the floor.
[effect] Libertarians in every city, town and village in @@NAME@@ have suddenly discovered “ancient” tablets with unintelligible writing which “totally” aren’t fake.
[option] “Let’s just chill,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Creative Solutions, while drawing lines all over your office. “According to the tablet, the flag of Jeevoosh was fully purple to show off the city's wealth. Incidentally, purple houses are half the houses in @@ANIMAL@@ Hill. Let’s give the purple houses to Lilliput to show our respect for their heritage, and let’s keep the non-purple houses. What could possibly go wrong?!”
[effect] Children are stopped at border checkpoints 200 times on their way to school.
I will edit for typos later.
PS I actually think Red Hill might be better than @@ANIMAL@@ Hill for an issue, but that name isn’t inclusive to all nations. For example, a green, lush nation or a nation of flat plains wouldn’t have Red Hill. If we can overlook this, then let’s go with Red Hill. However, @@ANIMAL@@ Hill adds a personal touch whereas Red Hill for every single nation is generic-sounding. I’ll await Australia’s opinion on that
by Radical Islamic Buddhism » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:56 pm
by Australian rePublic » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:45 pm
by Nazi Flower Power » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:01 pm
Radical Islamic Buddhism wrote:Lilliputian or Lilleevooshian?
by Radical Islamic Buddhism » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:02 pm
by Australian rePublic » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:34 pm
Radical Islamic Buddhism wrote:@Australia no you're not being rude, I prefer to-the-point messages. Also, I think the language thing is fine as it indicates Jeevooshian is an ancestor of Lilliputian. I'll say Lilliputian is an isolate language.
@NFP you're right, and furthermore, the one about God excludes people who don't get the reference.
[title]Can't Swallow that Tablet
[desc]An ancient city-state called Jeevoosh had been rumored to exist within the territory of @@NAME@@, but the evidence for Jeevoosh is sketchy at best. Recently, archaeologists discovered stone tablets in the border town of Red Hill. Written in a language vaguely resembling Lilliputian, the tablets are an epic poem with a plot similar to the famous Lilliputian epic, “The King of Books.” Because Lilliputian is unrelated to any other known language,
[validity]Co-Authored by Radical Islamic Buddhism, must allow private property
[option] “This land is mine, God gave this land to me,” crows @@RANDOMNAME@@, the ambassador from Lilliput. He stops singing and proudly shouts, “There has long been a theory that Jeevoosh was the missing link between prehistoric cultures and modern Lilliputian culture. Now, we have proof in the language and literature! They even put the Jeevooshian tablet on display in the town square, so obviously the people still retain sooo much of their traditional Jeevooshian culture. Free Jeevoosh to where it belongs, and Lilliput shall have its heritage back! Plus, it’ll show international goodwill and peaceful cooperation between our nations.”
[effect] Aggressive foreign countries have annexed 90% of @@NAME@@’s territory by claiming their ancestors lived there 3000 years ago.
[option] "These claims are totally baseless!" sneers @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Patriotism.” Red Hill is formally recognized as a part of our country, and Lilliput is violating our territorial integrity. Everyone knows the Lilliputians are from the mountains on the opposite end of @@REGION@@! And even if they used to be Jeevooshians, they’re not anymore and are just doing this in order to legitimize their blatant imperialism! Why are we even taking them seriously, @@LEADER@@?”
[effect] burning land deeds and claiming nobody ever owned the land has replaced eminent domain in @@NAME@@.
[option] “That’s not enough, @@LEADER@@,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, the Minster of Extreme Patriotism. The people of Red Hill celebrate the myth of a powerful, mythical city-state for fun by showing off this random old rock with letters on it, but now it looks like we might lose the whole town of Red Hill because of this stupid myth. Put an end to it! I propose we ban all references to Jeevooshian culture or any ancient culture some idiot country can use to claim our land! Nobody cares if your linguistic ancestors lived there millennia ago!” @@HE@@ throws a @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ flag at you as @@HE@@ leaves the room.
[effect] ancient history is no longer included in textbooks.
[option] Cheep Haggles, a so-called ‘compromise enthusiast,’ stumbles into your room, looking extremely exhausted. “Uhhh, ya know what…oh, I’m so tired…why don’t we just rename it Jeevoosh and make the town autonomous?” Cheep yawns loudly and continues, “That way, both countries are happy and the citizens get freedom to acknowledge the great history behind that part of @@NAME@@...” Cheep falls asleep on the floor.
[effect] liberty-lovers across @@NAME@@ have opened up an industry for creating fake ancient monuments.
[option] “Let’s just chill,” says @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Creative Solutions, while drawing lines all over your office. “According to the tablet, the flag of Jeevoosh was fully purple to show off the city's wealth. Incidentally, half the houses in Red Hill are purple! Let’s give the purple houses to Lilliput to show our respect for their heritage, and let’s keep the non-purple houses. What could possibly go wrong?!”
[effect] children are stopped at border checkpoints 200 times on their way to school.
by Radical Islamic Buddhism » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:26 pm
Further, all the local tribes in the area spoke Ancient Lilliputian, even the @@DENONYMADJECTIVE@@ ones. Modern Lilliputian evolved after the mass migration of the Liliputians.
by Australian rePublic » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:30 pm
Radical Islamic Buddhism wrote:Australia, it sounds good, but there is just one thing that is not working at all. Delete part of option 2 that you added:Further, all the local tribes in the area spoke Ancient Lilliputian, even the @@DENONYMADJECTIVE@@ ones. Modern Lilliputian evolved after the mass migration of the Liliputians.
This implies that Jeevooshian and Ancient Lilliputian are both ancestors of Modern Lilliputian, which gets too confusing because they are then the same language incidentally. I also suggest in option 1 that there is a "missing link between prehistoric cultures and modern Lilliputian culture" to which this is a contradiction. If you delete the part I quoted above, the issue should be good.
by USS Monitor » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:39 pm
Australian rePublic wrote:[desc] An ancient city-state called Jeevoosh had been rumored to exist within the territory of @@NAME@@, but the evidence for Jeevoosh is sketchy at best. Recently, archaeologists discovered stone tablets in the border town of Red Hill. Written in a language which seems to be the ansestor of Modern Lilliputian, the tablets are an epic poem with a plot similar to the famous Lilliputian epic, "The King of Books."
by Australian rePublic » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:51 pm
USS Monitor wrote:Australian rePublic wrote:[desc] An ancient city-state called Jeevoosh had been rumored to exist within the territory of @@NAME@@, but the evidence for Jeevoosh is sketchy at best. Recently, archaeologists discovered stone tablets in the border town of Red Hill. Written in a language which seems to be the ansestor of Modern Lilliputian, the tablets are an epic poem with a plot similar to the famous Lilliputian epic, "The King of Books."
After reading this far, it is not clear what the dilemma is.
This would be fine as an opening to an RP post, but as an issue it's too much world-building, not enough plot.
by Radical Islamic Buddhism » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:41 pm
by USS Monitor » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:00 pm
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