ISSUE IDEA: Save Jeeboosh

[Radical Islamic Buddhism]

Oops, the part about me being a loser was meant to be a joke. Sorry if it came out as my being insecure. It's true though, I'm certainly a learning issue developer and I'm having lots of fun doing it! Thanks for the support
It's fun to put issues together with you as I'm not yet an ideas man but I'm usually good with grammar and flow in writing.

Ok so there are several problems we should still sort through. I think Option 1 and 2 should be OK and I will post updated versions soon based on what we've been working with. For option 3, what I was thinking was a very complicated, ridiculous way of sorting the city so it's really complicated and we can do some effect like "children are stopped by troops at border checkpoints 200 times on their way to school" or something like that. Option 3 takes the most careful phrasing.

We must find a name for @@ANIMAL@@stan and sure we can assume we have a land border. We could do a pun on Jerusalem but it might sound too similar to Jeevoosh. So instead we could name it after one of the random names, for example @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@grad which could be Bharatendugrad or Abrahamgrad or Prudencegrad -- maybe ville would be better, Bharatenduville, Abrahamville, Prudenceville, or Bharatendu City, Abraham City, Prudence City...

What about @@RANDOMNAME_REVERSE@@ so cities could be Etnorb Udnetarahb, Amabo Yffub, or Nikfir Selrahc. These are comical but confusing.

Is there @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_REVERSE@@?

[Rusthenia]

Oops, the part about me being a loser was meant to be a joke. Sorry if it came out as my being insecure. It's true though, I'm certainly a learning issue developer and I'm having lots of fun doing it! Thanks for the support
It's fun to put issues together with you as I'm not yet an ideas man but I'm usually good with grammar and flow in writing.

Ok so there are several problems we should still sort through. I think Option 1 and 2 should be OK and I will post updated versions soon based on what we've been working with. For option 3, what I was thinking was a very complicated, ridiculous way of sorting the city so it's really complicated and we can do some effect like "children are stopped by troops at border checkpoints 200 times on their way to school" or something like that. Option 3 takes the most careful phrasing.

We must find a name for @@ANIMAL@@stan and sure we can assume we have a land border. We could do a pun on Jerusalem but it might sound too similar to Jeevoosh. So instead we could name it after one of the random names, for example @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@grad which could be Bharatendugrad or Abrahamgrad or Prudencegrad -- maybe ville would be better, Bharatenduville, Abrahamville, Prudenceville, or Bharatendu City, Abraham City, Prudence City...

What about @@RANDOMNAME_REVERSE@@ so cities could be Etnorb Udnetarahb, Amabo Yffub, or Nikfir Selrahc. These are comical but confusing.

Is there @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_REVERSE@@?

i have some city name ideas

Kowekhcstuleam
Desert@@ANIMAL@@grad
"holiest city of violetism" maybe as a title?
nilreb

[Krogon]

We must find a name for @@ANIMAL@@stan and sure we can assume we have a land border. We could do a pun on Jerusalem but it might sound too similar to Jeevoosh. So instead we could name it after one of the random names, for example @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@grad which could be Bharatendugrad or Abrahamgrad or Prudencegrad -- maybe ville would be better, Bharatenduville, Abrahamville, Prudenceville, or Bharatendu City, Abraham City, Prudence City...

What about @@RANDOMNAME_REVERSE@@ so cities could be Etnorb Udnetarahb, Amabo Yffub, or Nikfir Selrahc. These are comical but confusing.

Is there @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_REVERSE@@?

I agree with RIB here that it should more be a random city name like this instead of Southwell. It seems a bit too specific, when you could just have something like what RIB said.

[USS Monitor]

I don't see a problem with Southwell. You don't want to randomize it in a way that will spit out weird-looking names because that ruins the contrast between the foreign-sounding name and the boring one.

[Australian rePublic]

I don't see a problem with Southwell. You don't want to randomize it in a way that will spit out weird-looking names because that ruins the contrast between the foreign-sounding name and the boring one.

I agree. If you conquer a city from a foreigner, and you don't rename it, then it would likely have a foreign name (unless the nation that you conquered it from has a similar language to your nation). If you build a city from scratch on indigenous land, then you could give the city an indigenous name which sort-of sounds foreign (think Wollongong, Chicago, Toronto, etc.). However, if you RENAME a city that you conquered, then you would most likely give it a name from your own language. Southwell would make sense, as nearly all ancient civilisations which had city had some kind water well system, and Southwell is, well, south

[Australian rePublic]

Oops, the part about me being a loser was meant to be a joke. Sorry if it came out as my being insecure. It's true though, I'm certainly a learning issue developer and I'm having lots of fun doing it! Thanks for the support
It's fun to put issues together with you as I'm not yet an ideas man but I'm usually good with grammar and flow in writing.

Ok so there are several problems we should still sort through. I think Option 1 and 2 should be OK and I will post updated versions soon based on what we've been working with. For option 3, what I was thinking was a very complicated, ridiculous way of sorting the city so it's really complicated and we can do some effect like "children are stopped by troops at border checkpoints 200 times on their way to school" or something like that. Option 3 takes the most careful phrasing.

We must find a name for @@ANIMAL@@stan and sure we can assume we have a land border. We could do a pun on Jerusalem but it might sound too similar to Jeevoosh. So instead we could name it after one of the random names, for example @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@grad which could be Bharatendugrad or Abrahamgrad or Prudencegrad -- maybe ville would be better, Bharatenduville, Abrahamville, Prudenceville, or Bharatendu City, Abraham City, Prudence City...

What about @@RANDOMNAME_REVERSE@@ so cities could be Etnorb Udnetarahb, Amabo Yffub, or Nikfir Selrahc. These are comical but confusing.

Is there @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_REVERSE@@?

i have some city name ideas

Kowekhcstuleam
Desert@@ANIMAL@@grad
"holiest city of violetism" maybe as a title?
nilreb

Holiest city of Violtism would assume that Violtism is a significant religion in @@NAME@@, and that has a whole lot of problems associated with it. Everything from non-Violtist theocracies, all the way through to compulsory atheism.

[Altmer Dominion]

While the Jeevooshite/Jeevooshit problem has already been mentioned, IMO the entire name 'Jeeboosh' just comes off as uninspired. Makes me think of Sploosh, to be honest. (And just to be SFW about it, let's call it the peaches kind.) Nothing really comes to mind as an alternative right now, but the name in conjunction with the tentative title ends up having the issue come off as sillier than you probably intended.

[Australian rePublic]

While the Jeevooshite/Jeevooshit problem has already been mentioned, IMO the entire name 'Jeeboosh' just comes off as uninspired. Makes me think of Sploosh, to be honest. (And just to be SFW about it, let's call it the peaches kind.) Nothing really comes to mind as an alternative right now, but the name in conjunction with the tentative title ends up having the issue come off as sillier than you probably intended.

What the fudge is a Sploosh?

[Australian rePublic]

Based on Jutsa's list, I think it would better to replace Blackacre with Lilliputtia
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=423697

[Altmer Dominion]

While the Jeevooshite/Jeevooshit problem has already been mentioned, IMO the entire name 'Jeeboosh' just comes off as uninspired. Makes me think of Sploosh, to be honest. (And just to be SFW about it, let's call it the peaches kind.) Nothing really comes to mind as an alternative right now, but the name in conjunction with the tentative title ends up having the issue come off as sillier than you probably intended.

What the fudge is a Sploosh?

Lol. I linked the SFW connotation, but if we're talking NSFW, let's just say it's clear you haven't seen Archer.

[Radical Islamic Buddhism]

Editing a little bit to make it sound better. This is really good. If you're commenting on this, look for typos in case I missed any.

[title] Save Jeevoosh
[desc] An ancient people called the Jeevooshians inhabited an ancient city-state, Jeevoosh, which is currently within the territory of @@NAME@@. The location of the ancient kingdom is now a modern city near the border called Southwell. The Lilliputians claim to be descendants of the Jeevooshians and are demanding that @@NAME@@ give them their land back. However, with little anthropological data, these claims are unverifiable.

[validity] all, I guess

[option] "This land is mine, God gave this land to me," sings @@RANDOMNAME@@, the ambassador from Lilliputia. He stops singing and proudly shouts, "Centuries ago, this land was ours, but now it happens to be under your control, and some people have even assimilated into @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ culture! However, half the people still remember their Lilliputian heritage! Free Jeevoosh, @@LEADER@@, free Jeevoosh! It is the people's will!"
[effect] Anyone can take someone else's land by claiming their ancestors owned it 450 generations prior.

[option] "These claims are totally baseless!" sneers @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Patriotism. "Southwell is part of our internationally recognized territory. Everyone knows the Lilliputiaans are from the mountains on the opposite end of @@REGION@@! Not only are they claiming our rightful land, they now have the audacity to invoke the heritage a city state from 3000 years ago in order to legitimize their blatant imperialism! Why are we taking them seriously, @@LEADER@@?”
[effect] Burning land deeds and claiming nobody ever owned the land has replaced eminent domain in @@NAME@@.

[option] "Why don't we share the land?" asks your Minister of Creative Solutions, drawing lines all over your office. "Half of Southwell’s population is @@DENONYMADJECTIVE@@ and the other half is Lilliputian. Just let every household take their pick. What could possibly go wrong?"
[effect] Having been detained at 200 border checkpoints is considered a valid excuse for being late to school.

[USS Monitor]

Can we get a better title please? The desc is a bit long, so if you see a way to trim that down, that'd be good too.

[Radical Islamic Buddhism]

Slightly shortened description - honestly I think it's perfectly fine - it takes 10-20 seconds to read which is not much: An ancient people called the Jeevooshians inhabited an ancient city-state, Jeevoosh, which is currently within the territory of @@NAME@@. Jeevoosh is now a modern city near the border called Southwell. The Lilliputians claim to be descendants of the Jeevooshians and are demanding that @@NAME@@ give them their land back. However, with little anthropological data, these claims are unverifiable.

Title ideas:

Competing Claims in the City of Truth
Who Really Owns Jeevoosh?
The City God Gave to Us
Lilliputian or Lilleevooshian?
International Borders to Revert 3 Millenia

Pick your favorite or please suggest something of none of these sound good.

[Australian rePublic]

The next draft is up. Thanks RIB! Thanks everyone for your feedback!

As for the title, how about

"Where The Bombs Land"?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Okay, let's take a look.

[title] Save Jeevoosh

Terrible title.

[desc] An ancient people called the Jeevooshians inhabited an ancient city-state, Jeevoosh, which is currently within the territory of @@NAME@@.

Hmm, okay. Not liking this so far but will run with it if it goes somewhwere interesting. Don't especially like being told that there was an ancient city-state within my current territory, as that's not something that is true of many RL nations. As an Australian, I would have thought you'd have noted that.

As I said though, it's not a dealbreaker, so long as this new piece of information is story-critical, and as long as we don't start adding too many additional assumptions or made-up peoples/places in the rest of the issue.

The location of the ancient kingdom is now a modern city near the border called Southwell.

By precedent we've only ever referred to @@ANIMAL@@ City and @@CAPITAL@@ as cities within @@NAME@@. I think calling out that every nation has a modern border city called Southwell is a bit much. Anyway, we're stretching patience now. Two sentences in, and you've given us two new bits of assumed lore.

The Lilliputians claim to be descendants of the Jeevooshians and are demanding that @@NAME@@ give them their land back.

Who are the Lilliputians?

I know they exist in other issues, but every issue should be written with the possibility that they are a player's first encounter with that nation. That doesn't mean you always need to describe the nation in full, but you need to construct the narrative in such a way that a player who hasn't heard that place name before still gets the gist of what is being referred to.

Also, make that three bits of assumed lore in three sentences. Can we try to ground this a little?

However, with little anthropological data, these claims are unverifiable.

Okay, so there's no issue. Case closed. We get all the way to the end of the description, and there's still no clear premise, dilemma or conflict.

Seriously, I'm surprised we've gotten this far into the drafting process, with an issue premise this weak... Not one of your best ones, Aussie.

Maybe strip it right back. Only force in one piece of new nation lore to avoid being too assumptive. Get rid of Southwall, and the Liliputian connections. Just make it about the discovery of an ancient civilisation ruins under @@CAPITAL@@, and how folk are using that to claim that the land is theirs in some way.

[Radical Islamic Buddhism]

According to records of a long-lost culture, there was an ancient city-state, Jeevoosh, which is currently within the territory of @@NAME@@. Jeevoosh is now a modern city near the border called __________. Now, the government of Lilliputia, an aggressive nation in @@REGION@@, claims to have Jeevooshian cultural heritage and wants their land back. However, with little anthropological data, Lilliputia's claims are unverifiable.

By precedent we've only ever referred to @@ANIMAL@@ City and @@CAPITAL@@ as cities within @@NAME@@. I think calling out that every nation has a modern border city called Southwell is a bit much. Anyway, we're stretching patience now. Two sentences in, and you've given us two new bits of assumed lore.

However, since this country can cede the city, we want it to be something never used in issues so they don't encounter it again. Yeah, if @@ANIMAL@@ville or @@ANIMAL@@stan or @@ANIMAL@@grad is too similar, then what if we use @@CURRENCY@@ City? If not, then @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@ville might just be the best way to go as it doesn't assume ALL nations have a city with the same name.

Who are the Lilliputians?

Answered better in description.

Okay, so there's no issue. Case closed. We get all the way to the end of the description, and there's still no clear premise, dilemma or conflict.

There is clearly an issue: Lilliputia wants their land back.

Also, make that three bits of assumed lore in three sentences. Can we try to ground this a little?

Ok, we still have to assume there is a long-lost culture in there that had a city. Southwell is gone, and we explain Lilliputia so that accounts for the other 2 invasive a prioris. Hopefully this draft clears it up.

[Australian rePublic]

Okay, let's take a look.

[title] Save Jeevoosh

Terrible title.

[desc] An ancient people called the Jeevooshians inhabited an ancient city-state, Jeevoosh, which is currently within the territory of @@NAME@@.

Hmm, okay. Not liking this so far but will run with it if it goes somewhwere interesting. Don't especially like being told that there was an ancient city-state within my current territory, as that's not something that is true of many RL nations. As an Australian, I would have thought you'd have noted that.

As I said though, it's not a dealbreaker, so long as this new piece of information is story-critical, and as long as we don't start adding too many additional assumptions or made-up peoples/places in the rest of the issue.

The location of the ancient kingdom is now a modern city near the border called Southwell.

By precedent we've only ever referred to @@ANIMAL@@ City and @@CAPITAL@@ as cities within @@NAME@@. I think calling out that every nation has a modern border city called Southwell is a bit much. Anyway, we're stretching patience now. Two sentences in, and you've given us two new bits of assumed lore.

The Lilliputians claim to be descendants of the Jeevooshians and are demanding that @@NAME@@ give them their land back.

Who are the Lilliputians?

I know they exist in other issues, but every issue should be written with the possibility that they are a player's first encounter with that nation. That doesn't mean you always need to describe the nation in full, but you need to construct the narrative in such a way that a player who hasn't heard that place name before still gets the gist of what is being referred to.

Also, make that three bits of assumed lore in three sentences. Can we try to ground this a little?

However, with little anthropological data, these claims are unverifiable.

Okay, so there's no issue. Case closed. We get all the way to the end of the description, and there's still no clear premise, dilemma or conflict.

Seriously, I'm surprised we've gotten this far into the drafting process, with an issue premise this weak... Not one of your best ones, Aussie.

Maybe strip it right back. Only force in one piece of new nation lore to avoid being too assumptive. Get rid of Southwall, and the Liliputian connections. Just make it about the discovery of an ancient civilisation ruins under @@CAPITAL@@, and how folk are using that to claim that the land is theirs in some way.

Should we ditch this?

[Australian rePublic]

According to records of a long-lost culture, there was an ancient city-state, Jeevoosh, which is currently within the territory of @@NAME@@. Jeevoosh is now a modern city near the border called __________. Now, the government of Lilliputia, an aggressive nation in @@REGION@@, claims to have Jeevooshian cultural heritage and wants their land back. However, with little anthropological data, Lilliputia's claims are unverifiable.

By precedent we've only ever referred to @@ANIMAL@@ City and @@CAPITAL@@ as cities within @@NAME@@. I think calling out that every nation has a modern border city called Southwell is a bit much. Anyway, we're stretching patience now. Two sentences in, and you've given us two new bits of assumed lore.

However, since this country can cede the city, we want it to be something never used in issues so they don't encounter it again. Yeah, if @@ANIMAL@@ville or @@ANIMAL@@stan or @@ANIMAL@@grad is too similar, then what if we use @@CURRENCY@@ City? If not, then @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@ville might just be the best way to go as it doesn't assume ALL nations have a city with the same name.

Who are the Lilliputians?

Answered better in description.

Okay, so there's no issue. Case closed. We get all the way to the end of the description, and there's still no clear premise, dilemma or conflict.

There is clearly an issue: Lilliputia wants their land back.

Also, make that three bits of assumed lore in three sentences. Can we try to ground this a little?

Ok, we still have to assume there is a long-lost culture in there that had a city. Southwell is gone, and we explain Lilliputia so that accounts for the other 2 invasive a prioris. Hopefully this draft clears it up.

I just thought of something. We need to specify that @@NAME@@ conqured Jeevoosh, so that @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ can't claim Jeevooshian ansestry

[Trotterdam]

I just thought of something. We need to specify that @@NAME@@ conqured Jeevoosh, so that @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ can't claim Jeevooshian ansestry

How does that prevent that?

Conquerors and conquered often intermingle. Don't forget that the "English" we know were actually conquered by Normans who then went native, and the Normans in turn were Norse people who conquered parts of France and went native.

[USS Monitor]

Should we ditch this?

Probably.

I disagree with CWA about Southwell. There are lots of towns mentioned in issues, and just because Southwell was a city-state in ancient times does not mean it needs to be a major city in modern times.

But this still has other problems, and it might be faster to just start over with a stronger premise.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

To simplify this, I'd basically make it a single NPC nation being mentioned throughout, and make it @@CAPITAL@@. Something like:

While the modern nation of Lilliput is a relatively small and insignificant power on the geopolitical stage, historically the ancient Lilliputian Empire reached across the world. Now, the surprising archaeological discovery of Lilliputian ruins beneath @@CAPITAL@@ suggests that this city too was once an outpost colony of the Lilliputian Empire.

Options:
1) Lilliputian ambassador asking for recognition that this was once their land, along with some reparations for past invasion.
2) Patriotic type declaring it to be a fake and demanding the site's destruction.
3) Even more patriotic type claiming this means Lilliputians are @@DEMONYM@@ and we should be annexing Lilliput.

Or something like that. Those three options are all a bit unreasonable, so might need toning down.

Anyway, the approach described here need not be taken verbatim, it's more an exemplem of how to not introduce too many novel elements at once, and how to work a narrative so that it introduces new NPC nations in a way that neither assumes this is or is not the player's first encounter with this nation.

[Australian rePublic]

To simplify this, I'd basically make it a single NPC nation being mentioned throughout, and make it @@CAPITAL@@. Something like:

While the modern nation of Lilliput is a relatively small and insignificant power on the geopolitical stage, historically the ancient Lilliputian Empire reached across the world. Now, the surprising archaeological discovery of Lilliputian ruins beneath @@CAPITAL@@ suggests that this city too was once an outpost colony of the Lilliputian Empire.

Options:
1) Lilliputian ambassador asking for recognition that this was once their land, along with some reparations for past invasion.
2) Patriotic type declaring it to be a fake and demanding the site's destruction.
3) Even more patriotic type claiming this means Lilliputians are @@DEMONYM@@ and we should be annexing Lilliput.

Or something like that. Those three options are all a bit unreasonable, so might need toning down.

Anyway, the approach described here need not be taken verbatim, it's more an exemplem of how to not introduce too many novel elements at once, and how to work a narrative so that it introduces new NPC nations in a way that neither assumes this is or is not the player's first encounter with this nation.

The problem with using @@CAPITAL@@ is that it's possible that @@CAPITAL@@ was a purpose-built city. Especially as many federations do this in order to avoid showing favouritism amongst the states, so that the capital is in a neutral territory. I believe that telling the player the history of their capital is a violation of player autonomy, whilst a random city on the other hand, is a different matter, as most countries would have mant cities, each with their own, individual capitals. Anyway, I wrote a new draft which I will post in the next post. I'll wait for RIB's edits before posting on the first page

[Australian rePublic]

[title] Can't Swallow That Tablet

[desc] An archiologist from Lilliputia, a country who claims that @@NAME@@ stole its land, has discovered a clay tablet which states that Red Hill, a city near the border, was originally named “Jeevoosh" and was conquered and renamed by @@NAME@@ a few centuries prior.

[validity] Co-Authored by Radical Islamic Buddhism, must allow private property, must have a military

[option] "This land is mine, God gave this land to me," sings @@RANDOMNAME@@, the ambassador from Lilliputia. @@HE@@ stops singing and proudly shouts, "Centuries ago, this land was ours, but now it happens to be under your control, and some people have even assimilated into @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ culture! However, half the people still remember their Lilliputian heritage! We saw your archiologists destroy that clay tablet, just admit the cover up! Free Jeevoosh, @@LEADER@@, free Jeevoosh! Or at least give us an acknowledgment of our stolen land, and a billion @@CURRENCYPLURAL@@ in compensation.”
[effect] anyone can take someone else's land by claiming their ancestors owned it 450 generations prior.

[option] "These claims are totally baseless!" sneers @@RANDOMNAME@@, your Minister of Patriotism. "Southwell is part of our internationally recognized territory. Everyone knows the Lilliputiaans are from the mountains on the opposite end of @@REGION@@! Not only are they claiming our rightful land, they now have the audacity to invoke the heritage an ancient city from centuries ago, in order to legitimize their blatant imperialism! Well if they're so sure we stole their land, then why won't they let us examine the clay tablet they supposedly found? And more importantly, why are we taking them seriously, @@LEADER@@?”
[effect] Burning property deeds and claiming nobody ever owned the land has replaced eminent domain in @@NAME@@.

[option] "Left, right, left, right!" barks drill sergeant @@RANDOMNAME@@, marching @@HIS@@ cadets into your office. "Attention! @@LEADER@@, if these scum want to claim that we conquered their land, well why not legitimise their claims? See my troops here? With your signature on this form, I bet we have some new Lilliputian cities by sunrise!"
[effect] real estate disputes often lead to declarations of war

[Candlewhisper Archive]

You may want to proof-read that. Lots of spelling mistakes, and lots of text which refers to earlier versions.

And seriously, see if you can lose the words Jeevosh and Red Hill some how.

[USS Monitor]

To simplify this, I'd basically make it a single NPC nation being mentioned throughout, and make it @@CAPITAL@@. Something like:

While the modern nation of Lilliput is a relatively small and insignificant power on the geopolitical stage, historically the ancient Lilliputian Empire reached across the world. Now, the surprising archaeological discovery of Lilliputian ruins beneath @@CAPITAL@@ suggests that this city too was once an outpost colony of the Lilliputian Empire.

Options:
1) Lilliputian ambassador asking for recognition that this was once their land, along with some reparations for past invasion.
2) Patriotic type declaring it to be a fake and demanding the site's destruction.
3) Even more patriotic type claiming this means Lilliputians are @@DEMONYM@@ and we should be annexing Lilliput.

Or something like that. Those three options are all a bit unreasonable, so might need toning down.

Anyway, the approach described here need not be taken verbatim, it's more an exemplem of how to not introduce too many novel elements at once, and how to work a narrative so that it introduces new NPC nations in a way that neither assumes this is or is not the player's first encounter with this nation.

The problem with using @@CAPITAL@@ is that it's possible that @@CAPITAL@@ was a purpose-built city. Especially as many federations do this in order to avoid showing favouritism amongst the states, so that the capital is in a neutral territory. I believe that telling the player the history of their capital is a violation of player autonomy, whilst a random city on the other hand, is a different matter, as most countries would have mant cities, each with their own, individual capitals. Anyway, I wrote a new draft which I will post in the next post. I'll wait for RIB's edits before posting on the first page

A purpose-built capital could still have ruins under it. Maybe the ruins were buried and people didn't know they were there, but they still noticed that it was a geographically logical place to build a city.