[SUBMITTED] Problematic Prelate Prolongs Process

[Fauxia]

The local chapters of the Church of Crimson are led by prelates, which the Central Crimson Authority, based in Bigtopia, selects. This process is usually free of controversy; however, many party loyalists and xenophobes have criticized the Central Crimson Authority in choosing @@CAPITAL@@‘s new prelate, @@RANDOMNAME(1)@@, known to attack your government as the spawn of demons. Perhaps even worse, @@HE(1)@@ is Bigtopian.

[validity] freedom of religion

[option] "If you let this choice go through, Crimsonites throughout @@CAPITAL@@ and beyond will revolt against you, or at least send you a strongly-worded letter!" asserts an advisor wearing a green bracelet. "There is no doubt that @@RANDOMNAME(1)@@ intends to turn Crimsonites against your righteous rule! Even my token devout Crimson friend who I totally have agrees! The government should claim the authority to block problematic religious appointments, starting with this one. Using this new power, we can stir up support for you among people of all faiths!"
[fallout] most religions can’t agree on anything except how great @@LEADER@@ is

[option] "Mind your own business, demon!" commands a representative of the Church of Crimson, identifiable by her ceremonial reddened knife. "We’ve always had the freedom to choose our own prelates, and changing that here because one prelate may want your head on a platter is a violation of that freedom. All other religions are entitled to that liberty too, at least before we assass — anyway, this isn’t some special treatment, this is time-honored freedom of religion. Surely you wouldn’t get in the way of that, would you, demon?"
[fallout] the Cult of @@LEADER@@ Sucking is rapidly gaining popularity

[option] "Bigtopians! Insurgents and Bigtopians everywhere!" exclaims former general and xenophobic politician @@RANDOMNAME@@. "This is the Central Crimson Authority’s plan, people! They are attempting to stir Crimsonites in @@NAME@@ against the government! We must outlaw this insurrectionary organization and put an end to its nefarious devices! Anyone who disagrees is a terrorist-sympathizing, @@NAME@@-hating, Crimson-loving, Barry-reading, free-thinking traitor!"
[fallout] grisly murders are all related to the Church of Crimson in some way

[description] The Central Authority of the Crimson usually appoints prelates, who lead local chapters of the Church of Crimson. However, the appointment for prelate of @@CAPITAL@@, a Bigtopian named @@RANDOMNAME(1)@@, is surrounded by controversy that goes further than simply being Bigtopian. He is known to frequently use you as an example of a demon.

[validity] must allow freedom of religion

[option] "@@RANDOMNAME(1)@@ wishes to undermine your authority!" asserts @@RANDOMNAME@@, one of your more sycophantic junior officials. "He wishes to turn Crimsonites against your just and righteous rule! It’s time for you to strike back, and declare the ability to reject problematic religious appointments in any religion! You can reject both dubiously qualified and revolutionary appointments, while still mostly allowing freedom in appointments. I’m sure you won’t abuse this power, @@LEADER@@."
[fallout] most religions can’t agree on anything except how great @@LEADER@@ is

[option] "Since when does the government have that authority?" questions @@RANDOMNAME(1)@@, holding the ceremonial red-dye-smeared knife over a sculpture of you. "Freedom of religion means that we can appoint who we want. Who cares if I say you’re a demon and anyone who supports you needs to be cleansed of their sins? This is a religious matter, not a public one; the government has no business in it."
[fallout] the Church of How Much @@LEADER@@ Sucks is rapidly gaining popularity

[option] "Why is the Church of Crimson picking Bigtopians for positions in @@NAME@@?" begins nationalist politician @@RANDOMNAME@@, sporting various religious symbols painted in the colors of the flag. "Jobs in @@NAME@@ are for @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@. @@LEADER@@, you must ensure that only native @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ are appointed to leadership positions in @@NAME@@. If that happens, the opposition to your rule should go away."
[fallout] the Church of Marche Noirian Purity is led by @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@

[description] It’s the tradition of the Church of Orange to select its own prelates, who lead chapters of the religion. However, the appointment for prelate of @@CAPITAL@@, a Bigtopian named @@RANDOMNAME(1)@@, is surrounded by controversy that goes further than simply being Bigtopian.

[validity] must allow religion

[option] "You must block this appointment!" exclaims @@RANDOMNAME@@, law enforcement official and devout follower of @@FAITH@@. "@@RANDOMNAME(1)@@ was involved in several cover-ups of violent crime in Bigtopia, at least according to @@HIS(1)@@ mother-in-law! You can’t trust this criminal! Every time a major religious official is appointed in @@NAME@@, the government must investigate and block those with fishy histories."
[fallout] major officials of major religions are removed due to minor crimes

[option] "I am not a crook!" contends @@RANDOMNAME(1)@@, hands covered in what’s hopefully red dye. "An internal investigation by the Church found no reliable evidence that I was involved in criminal activity or attempts to cover up any such activity. You must protect all religious leaders from slander by people like the sinner who spoke to you before me!"
[fallout] religious leaders are overtaking politicians in ability to commit crimes without punishment

[option] "Forget the alleged crimes, why is this church appointing a Bigtopian to lead the faithful in @@NAME@@?" questions nationalist politician @@RANDOMNAME@@, sporting various religious symbols painted in the colors of the flag. "We shouldn’t be allowing Bigtopians to lead faithful @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@, you know how much propaganda they’ll spread! Restrict all religious appointments to native @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@, and then let these groups pick any @@DEMONYM@@ they want."
[fallout] the Church of Marche Noir is led by @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@

[option] "This gives you an excellent opportunity, @@LEADER@@," whispers an aide excitedly, ushering the previous two speakers out of the room. "You can use this appointment as an excuse to control all major religious appointments in @@NAME@@, and ensure that only those who will insert a bit of support for you in their sermons are appointed. Imagine the support you’ll have from peoples of all faiths!"
[fallout] religions seem to disagree about everything except how great @@LEADER@@ is

[Kuriko]

Wrong forum

[Fauxia]

Wrong forum

Yes it is, whoops.

[Trotterdam]

If the government thinks this guy is a criminal, it can arrest and sentence (or extradite, as appropiate) him. If the religious organization then decides that being in jail renders a person incapable of performing the spiritual duties required of this position, that's their business.

Either way, unless you're a theocracy, it's not the government's place to meddle in who a religious organization (or any other private organization) appoints as its own leaders.

[Fauxia]

If the government thinks this guy is a criminal, it can arrest and sentence (or extradite, as appropiate) him. If the religious organization then decides that being in jail renders a person incapable of performing the spiritual duties required of this position, that's their business.

Either way, unless you're a theocracy, it's not the government's place to meddle in who a religious organization (or any other private organization) appoints as its own leaders.

China disagrees.

Anyway, it's not definite that they did commit a crime.

[Frieden-und Freudenland]

If the government thinks this guy is a criminal, it can arrest and sentence (or extradite, as appropiate) him. If the religious organization then decides that being in jail renders a person incapable of performing the spiritual duties required of this position, that's their business.

Either way, unless you're a theocracy, it's not the government's place to meddle in who a religious organization (or any other private organization) appoints as its own leaders.

China disagrees.

Anyway, it's not definite that they did commit a crime.

Forget about the crime part, but I agree with Trott that it is not @@LEADER@@'s job to decide whether a certain person should be appointed for this position or not.

Now, as for China, it seems they are having disagreements with the Vatican on bishop appointments, but it appears more like a power war here.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.scmp.com ... or%3famp=1

If you find this controversy worth tackling in an issue, maybe instead of assuming that @@LEADER@@ has the authority to meddle with clergy appointments, maybe ask the question of whether @@LEADER@@ should have that kind of authority.

[Trotterdam]

Now, as for China, it seems they are having disagreements with the Vatican on bishop appointments, but it appears more like a power war here.

Huh, that's not the example I was expecting.

When I saw China brought up, I immediately thought of the Chinese government's meddling in the position of Dalai Lama, in part because the Dalai Lama serves as a symbol of Tibetan independence, something that China doesn't want to encourage. This means that you need government permission to reincarnate.

If you find this controversy worth tackling in an issue, maybe instead of assuming that @@LEADER@@ has the authority to meddle with clergy appointments, maybe ask the question of whether @@LEADER@@ should have that kind of authority.

Yeah, that.

[Fauxia]

That’s, uh, kinda what I intended the issue as. I guess the translation is failing. I’ll work on it.

Thanks you two

[Australian rePublic]

Ha? Why can't Bigtoians be leaders of this religion?

[Fauxia]

Ha? Why can't Bigtoians be leaders of this religion?

The Nationalist is against Bigtopians leading a chapter in @@NAME@@

[Hediacrana]

In line with Trot's and FuF's comments above, I would also suggest to make the candidate prelate a known, vocal critic of Leader, and to make that the reason why he's undesirable, rather than his nationality or criminal record. That way, the focus is more unambiguously on the political power struggle between Leader and organized religions.

[The Official United Nations]

The last option isn't clear about why this is an 'opportunity' for the recommended policy. That policy could be implemented anyway. Further, does it imply that the Bigtopian is allowed to lead? Still, perhaps give an explicit explanation of why this is an opportunity for this policy.

The description should possibly hint at the nature of the controversy around the Bigtopian. For instance, that he has rumoured associations with criminality, or a mention of his reputation.

[Fauxia]

New draft, significant alterations

I nearly made the fallout in option 2 about “The Church of Leader Sucking”, then I realized that sounds like something CWA’d do

[Jutsa]

You could probably still keep that as an effect line.

[Australian rePublic]

Human demons?

Also, option 3- "native @@DENONYMPMURAL@@? So like Aboriginals, Native Americans, etc.?


Also, what if there aren't enough @@DENONYMADJECTIVE@@ to want to be clergy?

[Jutsa]

Sure! Possession, disguise, figure of speech, or the speedy kind — those are the worst.

[Fauxia]

Made some edits.

Five-month bump

[Fauxia]

2-month bump.

I rewrote the issue and changed the point of option 3.

I’ll submit in a week or two if people aren’t commenting, regardless of whether it’s ready or not. Drafts shouldn’t be up for nine(!) months, even if they’re only active for short and sparse periods.

[Fauxia]

This has been up for too long, so this is going to be either my final or penultimate bump.

Which probably means I still won’t submit until December or something knowing me.

[The Marsupial Illuminati]

You can submit this now.

[Fauxia]

Submitted.