NationStates

Posted: **Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:44 pm**

I've been having a tough time writing lately, but this came to me after watching one of my all-time favorite movies, the Titanic.

Formerly known as 'Captain Beck And The Deadly Shipwreck.

Name: Down With That?
Issue: An international cruise ship ran aground last week off of the treacherous shores of southern @@NAME@@. The captain, @@RANDOMNAME_1@@, became the subject of infamy after it was found that @@HE_1@@ fled before all of the passengers on board safely made it off, defying centuries of maritime tradition.

[Option 1] "Twenty people drowned trying to get off, and that scumbag of a captain decided @@HIS_1@@ life was more important?" rhetorically asks one of the surviving passengers of the ship, still visibly shaken by what had occurred. "They cannot help the relief effort if they aren't on the actual ship! The captain should always see to it that everyone on board gets off safely before they do, and if they don’t, we must punish the coward to the fullest extent of the law!"
Effect: captains must wait until all rats are safe before jumping ship

[Option 2] "Let's not be too hasty about who we assign the blame to here," defends the captain of cruise ship, who’s remarkably shorter and skinnier than you expected @@HIM_1@@ to be. “I’m not superhuman, and I apologize for that. I’m just as traumatized as anyone else. I actually was helping coordinate the evacuation efforts, albeit from the safety of land. It's not my duty to add to the death total, is it? "
Effect: a shipwreck is everyone's fault but the captain's

Posted: **Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:57 pm**

Sacara wrote:Name: Captain Beck And The Deadly Shipwreck
Issue: An international cruise ship ran aground earlier this morning on the treacherous shores of southern @@NAME@@. The ship's Captain, @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME@@ Beck, became a subject of infamy after it was found that @@HE/SHE@@ fled the ship before all of the passengers on board safely made it off.

[has death penalty]
[Option 1a] "Twenty people drowned trying to get off, and that scumbag of a captain decided @@HIS/HER@@ life was more important?" rhetorically asks your assistant, while angrily reading the rest of this morning's newspaper. "The captain should always see to it that everyone on board gets off safely before @@HE/SHE@@ does, and if @@HE/SHE@@ doesn't, we must show @@HIM/HER@@ that @@NAME@@ does not tolerate cowards."
Effect: captains must wait until all rats are safe before jumping ship

[doesn't have death penalty]
[Option 1b] "Twenty people drowned trying to get off, and that scumbag of a captain decided @@HIS/HER@@ life was more important?" rhetorically asks your assistant, while angrily reading the rest of this morning's newspaper. "The captain should always see to it that everyone on board gets off safely before @@HE/SHE@@ does, and if @@HE/SHE@@ doesn't, we must make sure @@HE/SHE@@ never sees the light of day again."
Effect: captains must wait until all rats are safe before jumping ship

[Option 2] "Let's not be too hasty about who we assign the blame to here," defends Captain Beck, whose outfit is remarkably dry for just getting off of a sinking ship. "My life is no less important than any others, even if it may have been my fault, maybe. This may have been realistic a few centuries ago, but not in modern @@NAME@@. It's not my duty to add to the death total, is it?"
Effect: a ship's captain is never there when you need @@HIM/HER@@

[Option 3] "None of this would've happened had we not allowed the ship to come here in the first place," notes your aide most concerned with public relations. "We should prohibit any large cruise liners from coming or departing from @@NAME@@. This will stop another deadly accident and be good for our environment; it's a win win!"
Effect: vacations aren't as warm as they use to be

By the way: in the title, are you counting on "Beck" and "shipwreck" rhyming? They don't. The accent is on the first syllable ("SHIPwreck" rather than "shipWRECK"), so the unstressed "wreck" doesn't match the stressed "Beck".

Posted: **Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:45 pm**

Trotterdam wrote:By the way: in the title, are you counting on "Beck" and "shipwreck" rhyming? They don't. The accent is on the first syllable ("SHIPwreck" rather than "shipWRECK"), so the unstressed "wreck" doesn't match the stressed "Beck".

It rhymes enough.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:19 am**

Option 1- why is it his responsibility to wait?

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:32 am**

Australian rePublic wrote:Option 1- why is it his responsibility to wait?

That's the point of the issue, Aussie.

Sacara: This may be a useful reference article for the legal and practical issues around this naval tradition, to help make the various arguments feel convincing:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16611371

I'm not convinced on forcing the Captain's name for the sake of a rhyme, as in the absence of some broader reference there's no good reason for it. May as well be Captain Pip and the Sinking Ship, or Captain Stoat and the Shipwrecked Boat. A rhyme in itself does not constitute wit, I think.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:39 am**

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Sacara: This may be a useful reference article for the legal and practical issues around this naval tradition, to help make the various arguments feel convincing:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16611371

I'm not convinced on forcing the Captain's name for the sake of a rhyme, as in the absence of some broader reference there's no good reason for it. May as well be Captain Pip and the Sinking Ship, or Captain Stoat and the Shipwrecked Boat. A rhyme in itself does not constitute wit, I think.

I’ll read the article over later today. And I knew someone was going to say something about the tittle, lol. I just couldn’t think of a clever one in this instance. If anyone has suggestions as to the tittle, I’m open to hearing them.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:11 am**

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:May as well be Captain Pip and the Sinking Ship, or Captain Stoat and the Shipwrecked Boat.

Those at least are better rhymes.

But yes, it'd be more convincing if there were another reason for the rhyming name.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:15 am**

Titles:

Going Down On It

Naa, maybe a bit too crude.

That Sinking Feeling
Down With That?
Lead From The Rear

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:03 am**

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:That Sinking Feeling

We already have that one.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:45 am**

Sacara wrote:I've been having a tough time writing lately, but this came to me after watching one of my all-time favorite movies, the Titanic.

FYI, Captain \Smith remained aboard the Titanic until the last minute, helping to reduce panic and organise the evacuation. He might have dived overboard once the last boast had been launched, and the bridge & wheelhouse were going under, but it's considered possible that the person seen jumping from that part of the ship then was somebody else instead and that Smith stayed aboard to go down with his ship.
Are you sure that you weren't thinking of that Italian cruise-ship's captain, in the Med, a few years ago?

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:03 am**

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Titles:

Going Down On It

Naa, maybe a bit too crude.

That Sinking Feeling
Down With That?
Lead From The Rear

I like "Down With That?"

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:12 am**

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Titles:

Going Down On It

Naa, maybe a bit too crude.

Just a bit...

That Sinking Feeling
Down With That?
Lead From The Rear

I agree that "Down With That" is a good name.

I also don't see much of the Titanic here, as Captain Smith reportedly stayed behind; it was Ismay who bailed -- although not as early as most movies depict (what ship was it where the Captain was one of the first to disembark?). But I think it's an interesting issue.

I like the first effect line. It made me chuckle. Although 1b kind of implies nations having jails, though not the death penalty. You might want to consider that. Maybe change "never sees the light of day again" to something like "punished to the maximum the law allows"; it's more flexible.

You also might want to make this issue adult only as it relies on twenty people having drowned. IDK. I'd at least consider it.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:31 am**

I don't see why the death penalty is needed to begin with. "Show that @@NAME@@ does not tolerate cowards" is pretty vague on how it plans to show that.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:41 am**

The Free Joy State wrote:(what ship was it where the Captain was one of the first to disembark?)

The first one that springs to mind is the Costa Concordia.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:44 am**

Bears Armed wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:(what ship was it where the Captain was one of the first to disembark?)

The first one that springs to mind is the Costa Concordia.

That's the one I was thinking of. Thanks.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:44 pm**

Thanks to everyone who has made suggestions. Updated with the following:

Straightened all quotes
Changed title and made the Captain's name random
Removed doppleganger option one
Enhanced options one and two.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:42 pm**

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Option 1- why is it his responsibility to wait?

That's the point of the issue, Aussie.

Sacara: This may be a useful reference article for the legal and practical issues around this naval tradition, to help make the various arguments feel convincing:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16611371

I'm not convinced on forcing the Captain's name for the sake of a rhyme, as in the absence of some broader reference there's no good reason for it. May as well be Captain Pip and the Sinking Ship, or Captain Stoat and the Shipwrecked Boat. A rhyme in itself does not constitute wit, I think.

Yes, I am aware of the fact that it's the law. I am also aware that the law is the reason behind the issue. However, you should state, WITHIN THE ISSUE, why the law exists

Posted: **Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:38 pm**

Australian rePublic wrote:Yes, I am aware of the fact that it's the law. I am also aware that the law is the reason behind the issue. However, you should state, WITHIN THE ISSUE, why the law exists

Added a small sentence at the end of the description to state that it is maritime tradition.

Posted: **Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:20 pm**

I like the first effect line. Less sure about the remark about the captain's dry cloths and just having jumped ship, given that enough time has already passed for a controversy to arise.

Maybe make the first assistant a surviving passenger?

I feel it could use a Titanic reference. "I'll never let go, Beck!"

Posted: **Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:34 pm**

Hediacrana wrote:Maybe make the first assistant a surviving passenger?

Implemented.

Posted: **Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:47 am**

I rather like that first title you had.

Option 1 has a clear problem in that it will definitely take up a clear majority of responses in the current state (especially seeing as Italy, if you will, chose option 1 in real life). My suggestion is that option 1 introduces the death penalty. Either that, or you need to make the captain more convincing/sympathetic.

Posted: **Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:38 pm**

Chan Island wrote:My suggestion is that option 1 introduces the death penalty. Either that, or you need to make the captain more convincing/sympathetic.

Originally, I had a doppleganger for option one with one for nations with capital punishment and one without. Would I need to a create another doppleganger explicitly for those without that introduces it? I will also work on option two.

Posted: **Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:17 pm**

Reworked option two. (Also one week bump)

Posted: **Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:34 pm**

OK, here are a couple of points.

I think it would be good if you gave a name to this ship. Maybe something like MSC Ocean Duchess or stuff like that. It would save you from having to repeat the word 'ship'.
"off of the treacherous shores [...]" -> I think 'of' is unnecessary
So, the accident happened today? It seems like a lot of things happened within one day. I don't think the investigation into the matter would have been completed within a single day, you know. If you're thinking of Costa Concordia, please remember it took days (maybe weeks?) for all the details of the accident (including the captain's negligence) to be uncovered. Maybe you could say that the accident happened last week?
I don't think your macro in the effect line of Option 2 will work. That pronoun simply has no antecedent, I think. It would be good if you didn't use a macro in an effect line (unless you used it along its antecedent, of course - which should not be the case here).
With all due respect, I have doubts about Option 3. I know you're trying to avoid a two-way dilemma by presenting a third option that looks at this from a different angle. But it's a bit too "off," I think. How about freight ships? They don't carry passengers, but they can still have accidents. How about ferries? They do carry passengers, but they are not cruise ships. What if they have an accident like this? I would suggest that you change Option 3. Also, in my humble opinion, this issue could remain as a two-way dilemma. Just saying.

Posted: **Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:49 pm**

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:I think it would be good if you gave a name to this ship. Maybe something like MSC Ocean Duchess or stuff like that. It would save you from having to repeat the word 'ship'.

The only reason I didn't name the ship was because I couldn't think of the ship. :blush:

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:[*]"off of the treacherous shores [...]" -> I think 'of' is unnecessary

Yep, slipped through.

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:So, the accident happened today? It seems like a lot of things happened within one day. I don't think the investigation into the matter would have been completed within a single day, you know. If you're thinking of Costa Concordia, please remember it took days (maybe weeks?) for all the details of the accident (including the captain's negligence) to be uncovered. Maybe you could say that the accident happened last week?

Implemented.

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:I don't think your macro in the effect line of Option 2 will work. That pronoun simply has no antecedent, I think. It would be good if you didn't use a macro in an effect line (unless you used it along its antecedent, of course - which should not be the case here).

I had questions about this, too. I'll just use 'them'.

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:With all due respect, I have doubts about Option 3. I know you're trying to avoid a two-way dilemma by presenting a third option that looks at this from a different angle.

You hit the nail on the head. I'll probably just remove option three entirely.

Thanks for the feedback.

NationStates

[ACCEPTED; #1078] - Down With That?

[ACCEPTED; #1078] - Down With That?