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NationStates issue results

A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9724
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:03 pm

Minoa wrote:I wish to ask which of the notables (e.g. absence of drug laws, restrictive gun laws, etc.) are based on World Census scores?
Your guess is as good as mine?

Most of them are intuitively obvious if you look at them (if not from the name alone, then from the fact that score-based notabilities are typically modified by far more issues than flag-based ones), but I don't have any automated, foolproof way of identifying them.

When I can tell you is that it seems that most notabilities are either score-based ("barren, inhospitable landscape"), or are redundant with named policies ("zero percent divorce rate" = "Permanent Marriage"), so it's more interesting to list the ones that aren't. These appear to include:
avant-garde cinema (ban on sequels)
aversion to nipples (not the same as general-purpose Prudism, but rather a ban on public breastfeeding)
conspicuous electricity pylons (importing electricity from other nations)
daily referendums (self-explanatory)
digital currency (self-explanatory)
flagrant waste-dumping (dumping waste in international waters)
free-roaming dinosaurs (mostly self-explanatory, but actually includes all nations with live dinosaurs, even ones in zoos)
otherworldly petting zoo (specifically means dinosaur zoos, and so always implies the previous notable as well)
infamous sell-swords (mostly for nations that employ mercenaries, but may also include ones that merely allow them to operate)
pith helmet sales (counterintuitively, this is actually specific to nations that practice colonialism... or self-defense in Brasilistan's case)
rampant corporate plagiarism (absence of copyright law)
rum-swilling pirates (piracy is legal... the naval kind, not the copyright kind)
teetotalling pirates (replaces the above in nations where alcohol is banned)
smutty television (currently affected by very few issues, I'd have to run some checks to see if that's a sampling bias or not)
unlimited-speed roads (self-explanatory)
That appears to be 15 out of 61 total notables, or about one-quarter. Knowing about these is useful because they're valid validities for issues!

Of the ones that are score-based, I'd have to say that "exploding hoverboards" deserves particular notice.

Minoa wrote:EXTRA: I'd like to see you compile a full list of admirables too, to go with the notables.
I'm probably not going to do this, because from what I can tell, all admirables are score-based.

For example, mine are "cultured" (high Culture), "efficient" (not sure what it means, but clearly something that should be on a sliding scale - maybe Economic Efficiency?), "environmentally stunning" (high Environmental Beauty), "genial" (gotta look that one up in a dictionary... looks like it's Cheerfulness or Compassion?), "safe" (high Safety), and "socially progressive" (high Inclusiveness, probably).

If you want to know which score the less-obvious ones are based on, then that requires statistical analysis of nations rather than issue results, which is more up Valentine Z's alley. Or write your own script.

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Minoa
Senator
 
Posts: 4955
Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Minoa » Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:54 pm

It's okay and thanks for your insight: I am just getting myself realigned with the world of NationStates after a particularly long break.
Mme A. d'Oiseau, B.A. (State of Minoa)

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Jutsa
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5437
Founded: Dec 06, 2015
Anarchy

Postby Jutsa » Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:06 am

Fun fact about the "Burgeoning @@ANIMAL@@ Population" notable. So, I was looking through nations of the lowest population, and then later nations of the highest score of averageness. Aside from, like, the first nation (which was only notable for its "irrelevance towards religion" - which I suspect might also be stat based, not sure), virtually every single one of these nations are notable for their burgeoning @@ANIMAL@@ population.

So, why is this relevant? Well, between my not once seeing a nation without a single notable, and the fact that these nations do not seem to be notable in any way, and the fact that I have not seen this notable in any nation that has another notable,-
on my quest to find what the default "no notability" nation looks like, I believe that "Burgeoning Animal Population" is the notable given to nations that otherwise have no tracked notables.

Isn't that a gas? in before you already knew that

Not sure if your notables* table would be able to change its notable count by saying that or not, but then again I'm only saying this with 98% confidence so *shrugs*
Last edited by Jutsa on Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
You're welcome to telegram me any questions you have of the game. Unless I've CTE'd (ceased to exist) - then you physically can't do that.

Helpful* Got Issues? Links (Not Pinned In Forum) *mostly: >Personal List of Issue Ideas | >List of Known Missing Issues/Options | >Sacara's Issue Database |
>Trotterdam's Policy Tracker with a secret | >Hidden Bonus Threads Directory | >Val's Bonus Stats | >Fauzjhia's Easter Egg Guide | >My Joke Drafts List | >Sherp's Author Rankings

Other Nifty Links: >NS Newcomers' Guide by Amerion | >NSindex | >IA's WA Proposal Office | >Major Discord Links | >TNP Card Query | >Trivia | >Cards Against NS | >Polls

"Remember, licking doorknobs is perfectly legal on other planets." - Ja Luıñaí

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9724
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:40 am

I think you're on to something.

I just ran a check on my database, and it turns out that not a single one of the 327 tracked nations with that notable have any other notables. It is furthermore the only notability with this property.

Conveniently, there is a notability for having a terrible environment ("barren, inhospitable landscape"), thus ensuring that it won't appear on nations that genuinely shouldn't have a lot of @@ANIMALPLURAL@@ left. However, contrary to my expectations, nations with beautiful environments can still fail to have their @@ANIMAL@@ populations mentioned if there's anything else they're notable for. (In hindsight, that should have been obvious when I didn't have it on my own nation.)

I guess this means I probably shouldn't be tracking this thing, given that it can at least theoretically be granted/removed by any issue option whatsoever that removes/grants another notability of any sort, so which options it's explicitly been seen on isn't really useful information and just gets in the way.

Maybe I'll add some special treatment to hide it later. (Aww, and I already went through the effort of coding my program to recognize notabilities-with-macros just for this one, too!) Right now it's not a "must fix immediately" priority.

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Jutsa
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5437
Founded: Dec 06, 2015
Anarchy

Postby Jutsa » Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:38 am

Glad I could help. :)

Also, I admit I've been taking a look at your issues results page, and I noticed that 1219.3 (probably among a significantly many others) has "unknown effect".
I don't know if my answering that option on an alt can directly help you or not; I'll save the issue until I know for sure. :P
(Pretty sure I was going to pick that option anyway, though.)
Edit: I see two options like this with 1325. Not especially thrilled about becoming a non-religious socialist or religious capitalist but I could make it work for the sake of science. ;)
Last edited by Jutsa on Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
You're welcome to telegram me any questions you have of the game. Unless I've CTE'd (ceased to exist) - then you physically can't do that.

Helpful* Got Issues? Links (Not Pinned In Forum) *mostly: >Personal List of Issue Ideas | >List of Known Missing Issues/Options | >Sacara's Issue Database |
>Trotterdam's Policy Tracker with a secret | >Hidden Bonus Threads Directory | >Val's Bonus Stats | >Fauzjhia's Easter Egg Guide | >My Joke Drafts List | >Sherp's Author Rankings

Other Nifty Links: >NS Newcomers' Guide by Amerion | >NSindex | >IA's WA Proposal Office | >Major Discord Links | >TNP Card Query | >Trivia | >Cards Against NS | >Polls

"Remember, licking doorknobs is perfectly legal on other planets." - Ja Luıñaí

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9724
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:29 am

Jutsa wrote:Also, I admit I've been taking a look at your issues results page, and I noticed that 1219.3 (probably among a significantly many others) has "unknown effect".
Yeah, I reset the database three weeks ago. That's enough time for most results to get repopulated, but some of the most rarely-seen issue options will still be missing.

Jutsa wrote:I don't know if my answering that option on an alt can directly help you or not; I'll save the issue until I know for sure.
There are a few conditions that need to be satisfied for a result to be recorded (explained in the NAQ), but in general, yes, that's probably helpful.

Jutsa wrote:(Pretty sure I was going to pick that option anyway, though.)
...Then why wait?

Jutsa wrote:Edit: I see two options like this with 1325. Not especially thrilled about becoming a non-religious socialist or religious capitalist but I could make it work for the sake of science. ;)
Up to you. I'm sure to get them eventually, it's just a matter of how long it takes. And if I don't need to reset the database again in the meantime.

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9724
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:08 pm

Between this and this, I thought it wise to perform another reset. Hopefully things are actually stable now.

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TalAkMaChen
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 422
Founded: Sep 04, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby TalAkMaChen » Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:22 am

In #1349 the third is the same as the second fallout. Unless the second was mistakenly reported as second but was the third all along. In that case the second fallout would be missing. :eyebrow:

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Cantors Paradise
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Jul 17, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cantors Paradise » Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:53 am

The option description for option #2 of issue #1485 is "AI citizens are criticized for being robotic".

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Huosheng
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 10
Founded: Feb 01, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Huosheng » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:33 am

What's with all the new "unknown effect on Authoritarianism" effect lines? Was authoritarianism updated or something?
★ Tʜᴇ Pᴇᴏᴘʟᴇ·s Uɴɪᴏɴ Sᴛᴀᴛᴇ ᴏғ Hᴜᴏsʜᴇɴɢ ★

"The Huoshen People are the Pride of the World!"

Nation does not represent my IRL views
he/him
Trotskyist
Pro: trotskyism, communism, left unity, progressivism, environmentalism, lgbtqia+ rights, freedom of speech, democracy, internationalism, gun regulation, Palestinian freedom
Anti: authoritarianism, anarchism, right-wing, markets, monarchism, racism, nationalism, discrimination, theocracy, antitheism, partisan politics, Biden, Trump, USA, Israel, China, North Korea
All political tests are biased and partisan in nature, so I won't use them

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9724
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:36 am

Huosheng wrote:What's with all the new "unknown effect on Authoritarianism" effect lines? Was authoritarianism updated or something?
[violet] wrote:Heads up: I fixed a bug that may have resulted in census scales 53 and 79 reporting non-scaled numbers when queried via the API. So if those numbers seem 1,000 larger or 10 times smaller respectively than before, that's why. The new values should match what is displayed via the HTML site.

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Dexterra
Diplomat
 
Posts: 828
Founded: May 05, 2021
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Dexterra » Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:48 am

I really appreciate the results guide and the hard work you put in it, but I think it may be time for another reset. Lately I've had a ton of issue answers that have the exact opposite statistical effects of what is listed, and some statistical effects are even opposite of what is mentioned in the actual text of the issue answer itself. I'm not sure what's going on with NS stats recently or if it's just that some of my nations are so extreme that they're doing laps, but it's been getting a lot harder to make an informed decision. Just wanted to pass along :)
Last edited by Dexterra on Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Main
The United Peoples of Dexterra
The Cultural Democracy of Schrack

Experiments in Rare NS Classifications
IN PROGRESS the Historic Union of Burkitts
IN PROGRESS the United Commonwealth of Kelleran
The Public Hegemony of Loysville
The United Queendom of New Westfields
The Citizen's District of Petworth

Parodies of Extremes - enter at own risk!
The Independent Citizenry of Anarchton
The Murder-Suicide Cult of Hellscapia

Friday, 27 May 2022 - survey says pools beginning to open nationwide as schools start to let out for the summer

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9724
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:21 pm

Trotterdam wrote:
TalAkMaChen wrote:in the MAD chain the link from #1388 to #1389 is missing, some others as well that I can't fully reconstruct.
Yes, the reason for that is that #1388 (for capitalists) and #1403 (for socialists) have the same effect line, so my program can't tell them apart, but still have different followups (#1389 and #1404, respectively).

I was going to kludge in an ad-hoc solution when the chain was fully mapped, but then we never found #1380 and the chain never got fully mapped.
So with us having finally found #1380, I no longer have an excuse to continue putting this off. Enjoy!

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Nueva Rivera
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Apr 01, 2021
Corporate Bordello

Postby Nueva Rivera » Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:21 am

I had an issue that is not on the website (1493, called Bully Beef)
What are the results of this?

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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 20739
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:11 am

Nueva Rivera wrote:I had an issue that is not on the website (1493, called Bully Beef)
What are the results of this?
Bearing in mind its number, you're probably one of the first people to receive that issue. Can you post a copy of it here for us to see?
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474.

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9724
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:18 pm

Bears Armed wrote:Can you post a copy of it here for us to see?
No, don't. There's a perfectly good thread for that and this isn't it.

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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 20739
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:27 pm

Trotterdam wrote:
Bears Armed wrote:Can you post a copy of it here for us to see?
No, don't. There's a perfectly good thread for that and this isn't it.

Oops! Sorry, forgot which of the two I was in...
:blush:

EDIT: Found, with a puppet, and posted.
Last edited by Bears Armed on Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474.

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Rocain Founder
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 156
Founded: Aug 01, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Rocain Founder » Sun Nov 21, 2021 6:15 am

The talking point for option 2 of issue #1063 is incorrect. It is now "tuxedo rental companies are inexplicably going out of business". Presumably it was changed at some point to accommodate car-free nations. That explains why it was apparently an option with no effects in the database.

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Rocain Founder
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 156
Founded: Aug 01, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Rocain Founder » Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:43 am

The entry for issue #906 is not aware of option 5. See this post. I presume it is a doppleganger for option 4. (I do not know, as the puppet which received the issue did not pick this option.)

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9724
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:42 am

Rocain Founder wrote:The entry for issue #906 is not aware of option 5. See this post. I presume it is a doppleganger for option 4. (I do not know, as the puppet which received the issue did not pick this option.)
Huh. I think I skipped that one because the report was so vague and confused. It really helps if you post the actual option text when reporting these things.

A preliminary examination suggests the religious and secular versions have different effect lines. The effect line I had assigned there previously (I don't remember when or how I came to that conclusion) is different from the effect line listed on the NSindex page (which, however, is typically sloppy and obviously inaccurate, since it lists both variants as having the same effect line even though it's obviously nonsensical for the secular version). For now, I'm assuming that option 4 has the effect line "televangelists often claim they can cure your Lupus if you donate enough money" and option 5 has the effect line "television is strictly censored so that it promotes @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ values", but this could do with confirmation.

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Rocain Founder
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 156
Founded: Aug 01, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Rocain Founder » Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:02 am

I think that, sometime in the last two days, the program which maintains the data has lost sync with NationStates, crashed or suffered some other kind of failure. Not a single issue shows a "Last Confirmed" date of 2022-03-06. (There are many for 2022-03-05.) I suspected this had happened when one of my puppets got an Easter egg yesterday, chose a seldom-selected option, and discovered this morning that it was not reflected in the online data.

This probably needs looking into. Is it possible the program could be enhanced to generate some kind of alert if it has not observed any issue-answering activity for a day?
Last edited by Rocain Founder on Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9724
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:01 am

Rocain Founder wrote:I think that, sometime in the last two days, the program which maintains the data has lost sync with NationStates, crashed or suffered some other kind of failure.
Oh right. It's crashed a lot in the last few days. I restart it when I notice, but I keep forgetting to check.

The problem is Anarchic Republic, which is broken and reports an invalid Industry: Insurance score through the API. (You can also see this on the main site, where has the old "spurious #1 trophy" bug.) Normally, these errors are supposed to resolve themselves in time, but this one hasn't despite Anarchic Republic continuing to regularly answer issues, tripping the error each time, presumably because this is a rarely-affected score. At least I think it's been the same nation that trips it each time, the name sounds vaguely familiar, although I don't actually store logs across program restarts (which are necessary to clear this error), so it's possible there were multiple broken nations.

When I wrote my program, I did so under the assumption that the NationStates API actually works as described, and that any major deviation from the intended API behavior means the world is ending, and I probably shouldn't continue processing data as it's likely bogus. Unfortunately, it turns out that NationStates breaking is a lot more common than I anticipated, and despite knowing about the bug, the admins seem incapable of implementing any sort of permanent, lasting fix.

So I'm probably going to need to get better at recognizing and discarding corrupted data while still continuing to process other nations, hoping that despite the widespread missing data errors, the data that the API does return is still correct.

You know the system is messed up when having your program go Sorcerer's Apprentice and keep obliviously chugging on regardless of seemingly-serious error conditions is sounding like the good design choice.

Rocain Founder wrote:Is it possible the program could be enhanced to generate some kind of alert if it has not observed any issue-answering activity for a day?
Oh, it does. But I only see the alert if I'm at my computer, unless I remember to check the logs when I come back. I'm not going to have it aggressively take over my computer and yell at me whenever something is wrong, I could be busy with something else.

(Actually, it gives a warning if it goes for five minutes without seeing any new happenings while still otherwise functioning normally, which almost never happens. This is completely separate error messages for conditions that cause it to stop working.)

I've considered updating its taskbar icon to be crossed out or something when it's crashed. That's noticeable without being obtrusive.

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Luna Amore
Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 13390
Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:24 pm

Manually fixed the nation you mentioned, Trott.

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Rocain Founder
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 156
Founded: Aug 01, 2020
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Rocain Founder » Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:24 am

It appears that the data-gathering program stopped updating again sometime the day before yesterday. There are no issue options with a "Date Confirmed" of 2022-03-15.

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9724
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:42 am

No, it's... oh wait I see. I mistook an error for a warning somehow. I got a "400 Bad Request" error code from the API, which is rare enough that I hadn't coded it as an ignorable error.

I really should make this more noticeable somehow, but for now, thanks for being so attentive!

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