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[ACCEPTED; #1018] - Operation Failed

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Sacara
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[ACCEPTED; #1018] - Operation Failed

Postby Sacara » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:56 pm

Well, I completely restructured this draft. I changed the entire premise. Feel free to check it out and give feedback. I just quickly made the new title, so let me know if you like that, as well. I'm in need of effect lines, too.

Draft Two wrote:[Validity] high scientific advancement, hasn't banned AI
[The Issue] Dr. Thackery Mengele made the headlines yesterday after a mistake made during a routine operation caused the death of your Minister of Foreign Affairs. With the recent advances in the capabilities of artificial intelligence in @@NAME@@, some in the medical field are wondering if @@NAME@@ should give machines with artificial intelligence a whack at surgery.

[Option 1] "This seems like a no-brainer to me," states editor-in-chief of @@DEMONYM@@ Medical National, @@RANDOMNAME@@. "Surgery simply puts too much stress on the surgeons. After all, they're human too. Besides, it hasn't failed a test surgery, yet. The precision in which they operate is absolutely stunning and nothing near what an average @@DENONYM@@ can replicate. With a healthy investment into this artificial intelligence, we will turn science-fiction into a reality."
[Effect former surgeons can no longer afford the board game Operation

[Option 2] “I think you’re overreacting here,” cautions Dr. Mengele, uncontrollably shaking while attempting to write a note. “Everyone makes mistakes every once and awhile, even you! I'm no different. The reason people still come to me is that I can get personal with them; can I machine do that? You would be destroying the venerated doctor-patient relationship that has existed for centuries, in addition to slashing my salary! Cutting into people is what makes me, well, me! Make sure that these machines do not come near my hospital!”
[Effect] routine surgeries result in more deaths than @@LEADINGDEATHREASON@@

[Option 3] “Why stop at just the operating room doors when there is so much more we can do with artificial intelligence!” rhetorically asks @@RANDOMNAME@@, leader of the @@CAPITAL@@ High Science Club. “We could make hospitals so much more efficient if we allowed them to take on different roles outside of preforming the surgery. A few jobs are nothing compared to how much better our healthcare system would be than the rest of @@REGION@@!"
[Effect] robots are more common than people in the medical industry


EDIT 1: Added another joke about surgeons & fixed a few errors.
EDIT 2: Reworked the entire draft to address concerns by editors & commenters.
EDIT 3: Changed the effect line of option three & spotted a few more errors.
EDIT 4: Reworked option three.

[Name] Artifical Mishap

[Validity] high scientific advancement, hasn’t banned AI
[The Issue] Yesterday, @@RANDOMNAME_1@@ was scheduled to receive a routine surgery to remove @@HIS_1@@ appendix. However, just hours after the task was completed, @@RANDOMNAME_1@@ was pronounced dead. By the time doctors were able to rush into the room, it was too late. This surgery was done exclusively by an artificial intelligence program, known as the "Never Wrong 2000". Many are now starting to call into question the use artificial intelligence in the surgical field.

[Option 1] “That machine killed my mother!” yells @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_2@@ @@RANDOMLASTNAME_1@@, while crying profusely. “I, uh, cannot believe that the hospital would be so reckless by allowing this happen! Whatever happened to, uh, a doctor performing these, uh, tasks? The government must, uh, make sure that hospitals are not allowed, uh, to use these kinds of technology, and go back, uh, to the way of use to be!”
[Effect]

[Option 2] “I sympathize with @@RANDOMFIRSTNAME_2@@, I really do,” says Doctor @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, without a bit of remorse. “This is just the price we pay for having such technology. @@CAPITAL@@ wasn't built in a day, so you surely can't expect us to get everything right when we are testing out the waters. Sure, maybe one, two, or even a lot of people could lose their lives, but it’s a sacrifice we need to make. In fact, why doesn’t the government relax some of the regulations on new technology? Just imagine, the future could be tomorrow!”
[Effect]

[Validity: is somewhat religious]
[Option 3] “Why do we allow this one technology in the first place?” rhetorically asks @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, leader of the largest church in @@CAPITAL@@. “Artificial intelligence is just a curse, disguised as progress, given to us by the devil! You can't really believe artificial intelligence has the best interests of @@NAME@@ in mind, can you? Technology has gone too far this time, and it is our duty to ensure that @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ is not allowed to use anything that claims to think!"
[Effect]

[Option 4] Your last advisor for the day is @@RANDOMNAME@@, a prominent scientist, known for @@HIS@@ lack of empathy, from @@CAPITAL@@. “Using artificial intelligence on @@DENONYMPLURAL@@ could cause quite the ethical concern, but I think I may have a solution: force scientists to test the artificial intelligence technology on animals. That way no one can cry about @@NAME@@ being unethical!”
[Effect]
Last edited by Sacara on Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:52 pm, edited 19 times in total.
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Postby Fauxia » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:04 pm

I feel like there’s an issue regarding AI jobs, you can use that in the validity, maybe?
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Postby Sacara » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:17 pm

Fauxia wrote:I feel like there’s an issue regarding AI jobs, you can use that in the validity, maybe?

Hm... I cannot find one about AI taking jobs. Maybe I didn't look hard enough, though. Any comments on the actual issue itself?
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Postby Fauxia » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:34 pm

Sacara wrote:
Fauxia wrote:I feel like there’s an issue regarding AI jobs, you can use that in the validity, maybe?

Hm... I cannot find one about AI taking jobs. Maybe I didn't look hard enough, though. Any comments on the actual issue itself?
Description looks a bit long
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Postby Sacara » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:38 pm

Fauxia wrote:Description looks a bit long

Edited accordingly
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Postby Trotterdam » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:50 pm

Human doctors can make mistakes too. While newspapers might favor sensational headlines over actual facts, which can sway public opinion, I feel that sensible politicians (or is that an oxymoron?) wouldn't make a ruling on this without consulting statistical data on failure rates, rather than just one anecdote.

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Postby Sacara » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:04 am

Trotterdam wrote:Human doctors can make mistakes too. While newspapers might favor sensational headlines over actual facts, which can sway public opinion, I feel that sensible politicians (or is that an oxymoron?) wouldn't make a ruling on this without consulting statistical data on failure rates, rather than just one anecdote.

Hmm... I feel like many issues we currently have are about quick and brash decisions, however you know more than me. Would you suggest I scrap the whole thing?
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Postby Jutsa » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:38 am

I don't think that's really necessary.

I haven't taken a look at this yet, but if you could maybe state that statistically some have been erroring and making more mistakes lately,
you might be able to present a more pressing issue.

You are right, though: some issues are pretty brash, and newspapers irl* tend to pick up brash instances at that. :lol:
Last edited by Jutsa on Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sacara » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:08 pm

Hmm... I'm thinking about changing the premise from a few mistakes to should hospitals adopt this in the first place. What do you guys think?
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:59 pm

Re: Randomnames, it would be unlikely that the kid has a different surname to his/her mother? You could assume changing name/keeping maiden name in marriage, but be careful in doing that, whilst taking into account that in some cultures, it's the man, not the woman, who changes his name
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Postby Sacara » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:43 pm

I completely overhauled the issue. I changed the premise from should we ban AI to should we use AI in hospitals. Check it out, and feedback is much appreciated. :)
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Postby The Sherpa Empire » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:59 pm

I like the new premise better.
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Postby Palos Heights » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:12 pm

For option 2, change the line regarding relationship to, "You would be destroying the venerated doctor-patient relationship that has existed for centuries in addition to slashing my salary!"

If you can work in more scalpel, cutting, and incision jokes into their dialogue, the better!

Simply put, far better premise, better work here. Can't wait to see how you continue to refine this.
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Postby Sacara » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:59 pm

Added another line about surgeons in option one. Thanks for the feedback, Palos!

If anyone else has any suggestions, feel free! :)
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:38 am

Looking at draft 2 here.

My first thought is that options should be written with effect lines in mine. Look at options as jokes, and effect lines as the punchline. There's no point trying to write a joke without knowing where you're heading to.

It's a great premise for an issue, however.

A slightly more grounded approach might be to not be challenging human surgeons by default, but instead be proposing starting to use AI-only surgery, with the options being:

1) Yes, give it a try.
2) No, human supervision is always required as a safeguard.
3) Let's get rid of human medical staff altogether.

That puts the craziness of the current build into a single option, giving two reasonable responses and one out there approach.
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Postby Fauxia » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:33 am

Remember to use "dumb quotes" rather than “smart quotes”
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Postby Jutsa » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:47 pm

Aren’t you always the person who always says ‘out with the old, in with the new’?
Depends... what if you aren't? :P

Also what Fauxia said. Otherwise, a very good draft. :clap:

However... this does make me wonder about something. If robots do the work, then... do they need to be paid?

Some effect line ideas:

1) lives are placed in the hands of experimental robots with drugs and knives

2) hospital patients have the comfort of knowing that their last conversation was a friendly one

3) the prototype robotic minister seems to want to rule the world some day

^ Just ideas, don't have to use any of them. :3
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Postby Australian rePublic » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:28 am

Or just revoke the licence of that specific surgeon
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Postby Palos Heights » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:09 am

Jutsa wrote:
Aren’t you always the person who always says ‘out with the old, in with the new’?
Depends... what if you aren't? :P

Also what Fauxia said. Otherwise, a very good draft. :clap:

However... this does make me wonder about something. If robots do the work, then... do they need to be paid?

Some effect line ideas:

1) lives are placed in the hands of experimental robots with drugs and knives

2) hospital patients have the comfort of knowing that their last conversation was a friendly one

3) the prototype robotic minister seems to want to rule the world some day

^ Just ideas, don't have to use any of them. :3


Well, if AI isn't considered a citizen then they probably wouldn't need to be paid.
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Postby Jutsa » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:55 am

That too is something to really think about, imo.
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Postby Sacara » Sat May 26, 2018 4:24 pm

I reworked the entire draft, and added effect lines. Let me know what you think of it now.
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Postby Sacara » Tue May 29, 2018 5:02 pm

A nice little bump. :)

Personally, I like the way this draft is shaping up to be, but I'm not a fan of the title. Any suggestions/concerns so far?
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Postby Candensia » Wed May 30, 2018 4:16 pm

[Effect] former surgeons can no longer afford the board game Operation


Hmm, I'm not sure if a real-life reference is appropriate here. Wouldn't there be some sort of copyright issue? :o

The idea of this issue intrigues me however, a very interesting dilemma, Sacara. ;)
Last edited by Candensia on Wed May 30, 2018 4:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:52 am

No, don't worry about copyright. You know Jennifer Government had Nike as one of the bad guys, right?

On the issue, I have to say, this is probably now the best unsubmitted draft on this forum. Looking very, very good.

When you submit it, would you mind dropping me a telegram so I can nab it before anyone else?
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Aclion » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:29 am

I don't understand the third effect. What does hospitals being cold have to do with AI performing surgery?
Last edited by Aclion on Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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