[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

[Divitalia]

So I got an issue about placing tolls due to traffic, and chose the third option, which was to ban cars and use only public transport, and my scientific advancement fell a ton. Why is this? From the way the issue spun it, modern transport would still be used (trains and buses) but not cars.

It fell by 47 points, which isn't that much, given that the world ranges from 2169.41 to -2081.89.

This small change was a knock-on effect of changes in spending priorities by the government.

That’s not particularly small, it was about 1/7 of my Scientific Advancement. And I was in the top 8% or something like that, so that’d be a huge hit for a nation with a lower score.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

It fell by 47 points, which isn't that much, given that the world ranges from 2169.41 to -2081.89.

This small change was a knock-on effect of changes in spending priorities by the government.

That’s not particularly small, it was about 1/7 of my Scientific Advancement. And I was in the top 8% or something like that, so that’d be a huge hit for a nation with a lower score.

It's a small change. You may perceive it is large, but it is not. It's about as small a change as that stat is ever likely to see.

[Bears Armed]

This nation.
Just now.
Issue #262.
Option #2.

Allowing free speech (okay, not always very nice free speech, but even so...) gives a 5.2% increase to Corruption?!

More free speech and more political freedom would normally reduce corruption, but the position taken didn't represent much more free speech than you currently allow, so no/minimal change registered in these categories.

Meanwhile more crime increases corruption, and normally this effect would be much less than the previous one, but for you it wasn't. A higher granularity game would probably have distinguished the sorts of crimes encouraged here (hate crimes) from the sort of crimes that constitute corruption, but this is not that game.

Okay.
Trust this nation to be atypical...
^_^

[Marksville]

Nation: Marksville
Day: Today (Feb 23)
Issue: Great Balls of Fire! (252)

Choosing option 3 (build a tourist attraction in the crater) didn't effect tourism at all. As in, Tourism wasn't listed in any of the effected stats. (Directly or indirectly)

Now I read the OP about tourism and environment, and I acknowledge my environmental score is bad. But since the issue result is "Tourists are flocking to the newly-built MeteorLand family resort." I would expect even a tiny boost in tourism.
The only possibility I can think of is if the other stat changes nullified the increase of tourism, but that seems highly unlikely...

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Nation: Marksville
Day: Today (Feb 23)
Issue: Great Balls of Fire! (252)

Choosing option 3 (build a tourist attraction in the crater) didn't effect tourism at all. As in, Tourism wasn't listed in any of the effected stats. (Directly or indirectly)

Now I read the OP about tourism and environment, and I acknowledge my environmental score is bad. But since the issue result is "Tourists are flocking to the newly-built MeteorLand family resort." I would expect even a tiny boost in tourism.
The only possibility I can think of is if the other stat changes nullified the increase of tourism, but that seems highly unlikely...

Actually, the environment thing is totally irrelevant here.

What in fact happened was that your tourism stat went from negative to less negative.

The game continues to calculate industry sizes even when they fall under zero, so if you (at some time in the past) had zero tourism and enacted some anti-tourism measure, you'd still be at zero tourism, but your baseline stat would fall into the negative.

Conceptually, we're told this represents a national hostility to the idea of that industry re-establishing itself, as well as logistical and infrastructure barriers to that industry reappearing. In your case, the presence of a new tourist attraction was not enough to overwhelm a historical reputation of being a place that tourists don't want to visit, so you still have no tourism, though you've invisibly declared yourself to be more friendly to the idea than you were before.

Imagine war-torn Syria having lost its tourism due to Islamic State and endless war. Now wind forward and imagine a period of peace and stable economy, and President Assad declaring he's opening a series of beach resorts to attract tourists. It's pretty likely that there still wouldn't be any tourist industry, rather just some empty beach resorts. However, if he keeps at it, and over a period of years continues to promote Syrian tourism, then eventually the numbers will start to trickle back in as the most adventurous holiday-goers give it a shot, word of mouth spreads, confidence in safety increases, and so on.

That's where you're at now. Not quite as bad as Syria, but basically its going to take a few more pro-tourism decisions before your tourist industry reappears.

[Divitalia]

That’s not particularly small, it was about 1/7 of my Scientific Advancement. And I was in the top 8% or something like that, so that’d be a huge hit for a nation with a lower score.

It's a small change. You may perceive it is large, but it is not. It's about as small a change as that stat is ever likely to see.

What do you mean? I get changes of only a handful of points down to less than one frequently.

[Trotterdam]

my scientific advancement fell a ton

It fell by 47 points, which isn't that much, given that the world ranges from 2169.41 to -2081.89.

This small change was a knock-on effect of changes in spending priorities by the government.

It's a small change. You may perceive it is large, but it is not. It's about as small a change as that stat is ever likely to see.

Seriously? My Scientific Advancement rarely even changes by a full point. 47 points is huge.

[Pencil Sharpeners 2]

It's a small change. You may perceive it is large, but it is not. It's about as small a change as that stat is ever likely to see.

What do you mean? I get changes of only a handful of points down to less than one frequently.

Yeah, that is quite a significant change. Banning cars is what did it, and I think that causes a significant decrease regardless of what your public transport is like.

Nation: Marksville
Day: Today (Feb 23)
Issue: Great Balls of Fire! (252)

Choosing option 3 (build a tourist attraction in the crater) didn't effect tourism at all. As in, Tourism wasn't listed in any of the effected stats. (Directly or indirectly)

Now I read the OP about tourism and environment, and I acknowledge my environmental score is bad. But since the issue result is "Tourists are flocking to the newly-built MeteorLand family resort." I would expect even a tiny boost in tourism.
The only possibility I can think of is if the other stat changes nullified the increase of tourism, but that seems highly unlikely...

What in fact happened was that your tourism stat went from negative to less negative.

The game continues to calculate industry sizes even when they fall under zero, so if you (at some time in the past) had zero tourism and enacted some anti-tourism measure, you'd still be at zero tourism, but your baseline stat would fall into the negative.

Worth noting that the tourism industry stat is hidden. The tourism stat we can see is just the number of tourists visiting, and does not fall below zero.

[Marksville]

Actually, the environment thing is totally irrelevant here.

What in fact happened was that your tourism stat went from negative to less negative.

The game continues to calculate industry sizes even when they fall under zero, so if you (at some time in the past) had zero tourism and enacted some anti-tourism measure, you'd still be at zero tourism, but your baseline stat would fall into the negative.
That's where you're at now. Not quite as bad as Syria, but basically its going to take a few more pro-tourism decisions before your tourist industry reappears.

Worth noting that the tourism industry stat is hidden. The tourism stat we can see is just the number of tourists visiting, and does not fall below zero.

Ah, ok. That makes sense. Thanks for your time Candlewhisper and Pencil (?).

[He Qixin]

There is another bug in the game: every time you spend money on some industry, all the others drop, though your economy is usually good and your citizens' incomes are at a healthy amount. This should be fixed where "all the others" should not be affected.

[Jutsa]

Naeh, that's not a problem. Think about it this way:

In order to get more people and funds into one industry, you'll probably have a larger population and a higher tax rate.
That being said, it's likely it won't be enough, so both people and funds are taken away from other industries in order to accommodate that one industry.

A similar thing happens if you remove stuff from an industry, or even ban it:
people are left without a job, and there's subsidy money leftover, so people go work in other sectors of the economy
while government funding is partially cut and partially redirected to those other sectors.

[Eastfield Lodge]

Just answered Issue 570 (Clerical Errors), and selected option 2 to stay traditionalist and keep the clergy single-sex, but my Religiousness stat dropped from 21,797.21 to 21,678.28 (down 0.55%). Surely it should have gone up, right?

[Pencil Sharpeners 2]

Just answered Issue 570 (Clerical Errors), and selected option 2 to stay traditionalist and keep the clergy single-sex, but my Religiousness stat dropped from 21,797.21 to 21,678.28 (down 0.55%). Surely it should have gone up, right?

By making your religion less inclusive, you dissuade people from following.

[He Qixin]

Naeh, that's not a problem. Think about it this way:

In order to get more people and funds into one industry, you'll probably have a larger population and a higher tax rate.
That being said, it's likely it won't be enough, so both people and funds are taken away from other industries in order to accommodate that one industry.

A similar thing happens if you remove stuff from an industry, or even ban it:
people are left without a job, and there's subsidy money leftover, so people go work in other sectors of the economy
while government funding is partially cut and partially redirected to those other sectors.

Okay thanks!

[He Qixin]

507.3: I know it's supposed to rebuild the cheese industry, but mine shot from the negatives to the top 2% of the world in one issue, from -3 or so to roughly 7.5k.
It's in The Final Conglomerated Order - maybe it's because it had pretty much no industry whatsoever?

Same here.
I answered 493.3 on Jan 14 this year, and for some reason my Recreational Drug Use shot from a Pineapple Fondness Rating (PFR) of 58 to the top 11% of the world in one issue (PFR of 98.6), even though I'm not quite sure what the option and fallout meant.

[Pencil Sharpeners 2]

507.3: I know it's supposed to rebuild the cheese industry, but mine shot from the negatives to the top 2% of the world in one issue, from -3 or so to roughly 7.5k.
It's in The Final Conglomerated Order - maybe it's because it had pretty much no industry whatsoever?

Same here.
I answered 493.3 on Jan 14 this year, and for some reason my Recreational Drug Use shot from a Pineapple Fondness Rating (PFR) of 58 to the top 11% of the world in one issue (PFR of 98.6), even though I'm not quite sure what the option and fallout meant.

From 493.3: "Who cares if they take drug or drinking chemical to be stronger and faster? Give all athlete drug"
Don't see what you're confused about there.

[He Qixin]

Same here.
I answered 493.3 on Jan 14 this year, and for some reason my Recreational Drug Use shot from a Pineapple Fondness Rating (PFR) of 58 to the top 11% of the world in one issue (PFR of 98.6), even though I'm not quite sure what the option and fallout meant.

From 493.3: "Who cares if they take drug or drinking chemical to be stronger and faster? Give all athlete drug"
Don't see what you're confused about there.

Oh, didn't see that. Thanks for the confirmation, Pencil! I just wanted to confirm whether my thoughts were correct. Usually, I would just look at the fallout of an the options on NSindex and answer the one that suits me best.

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

Today, 5 mins ago
Issue 758.3 Bye Bye To The Birdies?
"...Just put small toilet bowls at designated spots in the city, equipped with a food dispenser that gives food pellets when a pigeon poops there..."

Such a contraption is not easy to design, considering the minuscale weight of pigeon dropping /sq. Inch and thus, choosing option 3 should give at least a few points in science!! (It doesn't currently)

[Fauxia]

No, not really

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

No, not really

What logic.

[Oay]

Answering issue 365.3 results in no change in political freedom, and a small change in civil rights (likely just to normalize it now that the government takes a neutral stance).

This would normally be okay, I suppose, but the stance said this:
"Last I checked, free speech meant listening to people you didn't like," yawns your advisor, @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@, slouched over a sofa with a newspaper over her face, "A principle your office seems utterly devoted to... Look. Should a bunch of religious nutjobs stop homosexuals from saying it's alright for Jim and Jones to hold hands in the street? Of course not. Equally, should a bunch of tarted-up fruits stop the devout from banging on about their divine revelation? Obviously no. So why stop either of them? Freedom of expression is more important than either party's sensibilities, no matter how distasteful that might be."

Freedom of expression or freedom of speech implies that it's a political issue, but there was no change. I'm fairly certain this is the only time where those words are used without any affect on political freedom.
Was mine too high in the relevant areas to start with, or...?

Freedom of speech is considered a civil right by the game, though there are related political freedoms, such as the freedom to protest, the freedom of political representation, freedom from censorship of politics, and so on. However free speech itself is categorised under civil rights.

Preemptively, let me point out that this thread is NOT the place to discuss whether this should be the case.

I've waited awhile because I was waiting for a counterexample. Issues are not always so consistent about this. I've got one.
262, an issue specifically about freedom of speech, only affected political freedoms in this nation.

"Nicholas Condor, a prominent Bigtopian activist and soapbox orator, caused quite a stir last week when he publicly called for the complete extermination of the people of @@NAME@@, accusing fellow citizens of being 'sub-human', 'immoral', and 'really ugly too'... Coincidentally, another society, also called Citizens Against Intolerance, has stood up for Mr Condor, claiming that inhibiting his speeches would be a violation of his right to free speech." ""Words by themselves can't hurt anyone," counters @@RANDOMNAME@@, a free speech advocate."

Also, issue 22 about Nazi protesting rallies affects freedom of speech. I haven't seen it recently, but it enacts the relevant policy and affects political freedoms more than civil rights.

If free speech is considered a political freedom only in political contexts, then certainly the above context qualifies.
I'm not upset that it's considered a civil right, I'm upset that it wasn't considered a political one, which may have had more to do with how many my nation already had. Is this true?

[Trotterdam]

I've waited awhile because I was waiting for a counterexample. Issues are not always so consistent about this. I've got one.

You didn't even need to wait that long. The issue you were originally complaining about (#365) is even inconsistent about how it classifies freedom of speech within the pro and anti options on the same issue. When I brought this up, I basically got told that the editors don't care about logic or making sense so shut up.

[Fauxia]

Today, 5 mins ago
Issue 758.3 Bye Bye To The Birdies?
"...Just put small toilet bowls at designated spots in the city, equipped with a food dispenser that gives food pellets when a pigeon poops there..."

Such a contraption is not easy to design, considering the minuscale weight of pigeon dropping /sq. Inch and thus, choosing option 3 should give at least a few points in science!! (It doesn't currently)

I just don’t really see it. It’s not like your scientific advancement is so low that that is actually advancing anything. That may be somewhat advanced, but it’s not really for a nation with some advancement already.

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

Well it's not even a cursory 0.253467% emergent effect currently, just saying!

[Zimbabwean Tibet]

584.2 Decreased taxation, a whole 20% from 95% to 75%. Seems strange that it would decrease tax so much.