[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

[Christian Democrats]

Option 823.1 reduced my nation's Health.

Yes.

It's an issue for nations with bad weather, and you're encouraging folk to do indoor work outside. If you're doing a data entry desk job, you're going to get unwell a lot more easily if you're sitting in the rain and wind.

I guess I need to promote climate change.

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=christian_democrats/detail=trend/censusid=41

[He Qixin 2]

Yes.

It's an issue for nations with bad weather, and you're encouraging folk to do indoor work outside. If you're doing a data entry desk job, you're going to get unwell a lot more easily if you're sitting in the rain and wind.

I guess I need to promote climate change.

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=christian_democrats/detail=trend/censusid=41

Wow! But if you don't prioritize it that much, you can leave it alone. (It's really up to you...)

[Phoenicaea]

that s a good thread, compliments

[Candlewhisper Archive]

How does option 1 of issue #000 (Should Democracy Be Compulsory?) decrease your tourism?

You've not had this issue in the last few days.

Can you please specify the nation and the date received?

[He Qixin]

Name of Nation: He Qixin
Day that the issue was encountered: Today
Issue: No. 290 - Wheels of Misfortune

Problem: I chose option 1, and the fallout would be "New safety regulations require all cars manufactured in [He Qixin] to be bombproof.". How does that reduce automobile manufacturing? I thought following safety regulations would mean more cars produced without incidents?

[Trotterdam]

Problem: I chose option 1, and the fallout would be "New safety regulations require all cars manufactured in [He Qixin] to be bombproof.". How does that reduce automobile manufacturing? I thought following safety regulations would mean more cars produced without incidents?

Safety regulations add more overhead car manufacturers need to worry about, making cars more expensive to produce, allowing them to make fewer cars and earn less money per car.

[He Qixin]

Problem: I chose option 1, and the fallout would be "New safety regulations require all cars manufactured in [He Qixin] to be bombproof.". How does that reduce automobile manufacturing? I thought following safety regulations would mean more cars produced without incidents?

Safety regulations add more overhead car manufacturers need to worry about, making cars more expensive to produce, allowing them to make fewer cars and earn less money per car.

oh

[Jadefall]

Issue: Arms Manufacturers Strike


Does a 2% wage increase for workers in a single industry (arms manufacturing) really have to equate to a 60% crash in total Av. Income of Rich? It's not even one of my best industries. Craziness. A few percent dent would make sense, a 2007 style earnings cratering does not. Won't somebody think of the poor starving millionaires?!

Thanks in advance.

[The Enduring House of August]

Hello, I received "The Body Politic" (#527) today, and answered with one of the options that I think should have provided the policy Monarchy, but did not in fact.

I'm curious if this was just some bug, or if there's something else present that I'm just not aware of...

I chose option 3, which I had also chosen on an alternate nation, and in that case, Monarchy was issued to that nation's policies.

If I'm way off base here, I apologize for the inconvenience. Issue posted below.


The Body Politic -- No. 527

Ubalin, a small city in southwestern The Enduring House of August, was formerly a monarchical city-state before being annexed in the early history of The Enduring House of August. DNA testing on the remains of the last king of Ubalin, King Oswyn V, traced his lineage to a local man in a poor district of The Enduring House of August City.
The Debate

“Momma! Momma! Git the whiskey! No! The gud kind!” shouts Silvio Phillips, the newly-found heir to the House of Ood. “Well, it’s about time that my royal ‘eritarge is recugnized! I declare myself the absolute ruler of Ubalin as Yer Majesty King Rex! I will be the most high and most excellent king Ubalin has ever had! And as my first act as King, I declare Ubalin’s independence from The Enduring House of August; the Ubalinders will be free and independent again under my rule.” He then turns to your young secretary. “And darling, if you want to be a Queen, just hit me up.”

“Liberté, égalité, fraternité!” yells Tamara Weatherhead, the current mayor of Ubalin. “We first became a part of this great country as a direct result of when that tyrant Oswyn was violently ripped apart by blackout drunk peasants! To prevent reactionaries from poisoning and breaking apart the nation with outdated traditions, we need to denounce monarchy for the sham it is whenever it pops up!”

“Maybe there’s a compromise,” speculates Björk de Groot, a prolific jouster and part-time mutton farmer. “How about instead of making him the absolute monarch of Ubalin, we install King... Rex as a constitutional monarch of Ubalin. That way Ubalin stays a part of The Enduring House of August and continues to be run by competent politicians, but they’ll have a bit of tradition to rally behind. And imagine having an actual king open the Ubalin medieval fayre. My mutton sales will go through the roof!”

[Merconitonitopia]

yea that's not how you get monarchy any more. because the issue was previously nonsensical, it has been edited to concern the royalty of a previous city-state within your nation (I guess they didn't want to just delete it outright.)

I believe now you can only get monarchy from 461.2, which I think actually requires you to be an autocracy (an editor would have to confirm or contradict this.)
I wouldn't know if there are other options that allow for monarchy, none that I can see.

[Bears Armed]

Issue: Arms Manufacturers Strike


Does a 2% wage increase for workers in a single industry (arms manufacturing) really have to equate to a 60% crash in total Av. Income of Rich? It's not even one of my best industries. Craziness. A few percent dent would make sense, a 2007 style earnings cratering does not. Won't somebody think of the poor starving millionaires?!

Thanks in advance.

A/ It isn't 2%, it's 20% (albeit over two years).
B/ You conceding to one group of workers' demand like that encourages workers in other industries to strike for large pay-rises as well... and can be read as reflecting a general anti-business attitude that leads to your government introducing further problems for industry (thus potentially reducing GDP) as well.

[The Enduring House of August]

yea that's not how you get monarchy any more. because the issue was previously nonsensical, it has been edited to concern the royalty of a previous city-state within your nation (I guess they didn't want to just delete it outright.)

I believe now you can only get monarchy from 461.2, which I think actually requires you to be an autocracy (an editor would have to confirm or contradict this.)
I wouldn't know if there are other options that allow for monarchy, none that I can see.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me, Merconitonitopia. I guess I didn't notice the update. Glad it's not just a bug...

I looked up the alternate issue that you mentioned, and it looks like a fun one. Guess I'm now on a hunt for issue 461!

[Jadefall]

Issue: Arms Manufacturers Strike


Does a 2% wage increase for workers in a single industry (arms manufacturing) really have to equate to a 60% crash in total Av. Income of Rich? It's not even one of my best industries. Craziness. A few percent dent would make sense, a 2007 style earnings cratering does not. Won't somebody think of the poor starving millionaires?!

Thanks in advance.

A/ It isn't 2%, it's 20% (albeit over two years).
B/ You conceding to one group of workers' demand like that encourages workers in other industries to strike for large pay-rises as well... and can be read as reflecting a general anti-business attitude that leads to your government introducing further problems for industry (thus potentially reducing GDP) as well.

Ah, yes it is 20%, fair enough. Not sure I buy the second part, seems more like the excessive effects that Candlewhisper was talking about.

Could I have an answer from the organ grinder rather than the monkey? Thanks

[Ransium]

Issue: Arms Manufacturers Strike


Does a 2% wage increase for workers in a single industry (arms manufacturing) really have to equate to a 60% crash in total Av. Income of Rich? It's not even one of my best industries. Craziness. A few percent dent would make sense, a 2007 style earnings cratering does not. Won't somebody think of the poor starving millionaires?!

Thanks in advance.

This is all due to a large perceived change in the freedom with regards to wages, which this issue changes substantially, particular for your nation which started at a baseline of absolute wage freedoms. I think the stats themselves make sense and the although these secondary effects are huge, they are the semi-logical outcome of the stats themselves.

Also, arms manufacturing is your biggest industry. The issue could actually before whatever industry is your biggest, and stats were written accordingly. So the stats may be a bit larger than what you were expecting for that reason as well. Hope that helps.

[Bears Armed]

Could I have an answer from the organ grinder rather than the monkey? Thanks

Bear, not "monkey".

[Jadefall]

Issue: Arms Manufacturers Strike


Does a 2% wage increase for workers in a single industry (arms manufacturing) really have to equate to a 60% crash in total Av. Income of Rich? It's not even one of my best industries. Craziness. A few percent dent would make sense, a 2007 style earnings cratering does not. Won't somebody think of the poor starving millionaires?!

Thanks in advance.

This is all due to a large perceived change in the freedom with regards to wages, which this issue changes substantially, particular for your nation which started at a baseline of absolute wage freedoms. I think the stats themselves make sense and the although these secondary effects are huge, they are the semi-logical outcome of the stats themselves.

Also, arms manufacturing is your biggest industry. The issue could actually before whatever industry is your biggest, and stats were written accordingly. So the stats may be a bit larger than what you were expecting for that reason as well. Hope that helps.

OK, thanks Ransium. I see what you are saying, fair enough, but there are few issues that would have such a dramatic effect in a positive way, so it does seem like months of choices being wiped out by a single issue that doesn't even relate to a policy change. It's still extreme in my view and feels more than a little punitive. Is there a mulligan button? Lol.

[Ransium]

OK, thanks Ransium. I see what you are saying, fair enough, but there are few issues that would have such a dramatic effect in a positive way, so it does seem like months of choices being wiped out by a single issue that doesn't even relate to a policy change. It's still extreme in my view and feels more than a little punitive. Is there a mulligan button? Lol.

This is kind of funny to me because many would consider the changes that happened to be positive. But no matter what I'm sure players generally feel this way. The problem is the model assumes diminishing returns in many ways. So whatever thing you want, for most categories it is going to be harder and harder to get there the more you build your government in that direction, and the easier it will be to go in the other direction. There is an upside to this for you now: choosing issues that make more freedoms with regard to wages will now have a much larger effect than they did before on the income of the wealthy until you approach stats levels approximate to where you were before.

[Jadefall]

This is kind of funny to me because many would consider the changes that happened to be positive. But no matter what I'm sure players generally feel this way. The problem is the model assumes diminishing returns in many ways. So whatever thing you want, for most categories it is going to be harder and harder to get there the more you build your government in that direction, and the easier it will be to go in the other direction. There is an upside to this for you now: choosing issues that make more freedoms with regard to wages will now have a much larger effect than they did before on the income of the wealthy until you approach stats levels approximate to where you were before.

Oooh... Interesting. I had noticed diminishing returns in stats but admittedly I am still ignorant of many of the causal effects. I'm very grateful for your comprehensive answer, thanks Ransium!

[Merconitonitopia]

#016: @@INDUSTRY@@ Workers Strike! seems to have very extreme effects when you answer it against the status quo. I decided to side with the boss, figuring a lil deregulation couldn't hurt to help out my best industry, and it collapsed my poor income from 235,000 to 144,000. Seemed more than a little bit exaggerated (and, ironically, ended up hurting the industry in the end.)

[Candlewhisper Archive]

#016: @@INDUSTRY@@ Workers Strike! seems to have very extreme effects when you answer it against the status quo. I decided to side with the boss, figuring a lil deregulation couldn't hurt to help out my best industry, and it collapsed my poor income from 235,000 to 144,000. Seemed more than a little bit exaggerated (and, ironically, ended up hurting the industry in the end.)

Sounds like simulation working as intended to me. Allowing people to be fired on the spot eliminates any sort of job security, and allows bosses to find the cheapest person to find a given role at any time. Industry isn't directed to shrink, but the sim is actually quite smart in this. Abuse your employees too much, and productivity can fall... Sometimes, it's the company that offers job security, a dental plan and a decent wage that ends up with well motivated and loyal staff who create proper productivity.

[Reorganisieren Reichregierung]

In the copyright issue, why does upholding corporate copyrights (option 1) decrease wealth gaps and increase income equality?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

In the copyright issue, why does upholding corporate copyrights (option 1) decrease wealth gaps and increase income equality?

You'll need to be more specific. There's more than one copyright issue,

[Reorganisieren Reichregierung]

In the copyright issue, why does upholding corporate copyrights (option 1) decrease wealth gaps and increase income equality?

You'll need to be more specific. There's more than one copyright issue,

The one about the happy birthday song.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Ok, got it.

A few things to know to understand this.

Firstly, wage gaps are calculated predominantly as a function of total economic freedoms, with a greater weighting given to freedoms relating to wages.

Secondly, some issues affect multiple types of economic freedom, and the sum amount of movement in economic freedom can depend on your starting position. See the second FAQ for this: "Why did my civil rights / political freedom / economy move the wrong way?"

This issue is one that works off multiple types of economic freedom: the freedom of the corporations to protect their IP, and the freedom of individuals to use material for their own purposes without breaching copyright laws.

For some nations this will result in a net increase in economic freedom, for some a net decrease.

While you can't predict the exact effects without magic backstage-o-vision, you'll generally find that "competing freedoms within same category" issues will usually shift towards the middle ground. That is, very free nations will get less free, very restricted nations will get less restricted.

[Reorganisieren Reichregierung]

Ok, got it.

A few things to know to understand this.

Firstly, wage gaps are calculated predominantly as a function of total economic freedoms, with a greater weighting given to freedoms relating to wages.

Secondly, some issues affect multiple types of economic freedom, and the sum amount of movement in economic freedom can depend on your starting position. See the second FAQ for this: "Why did my civil rights / political freedom / economy move the wrong way?"

This issue is one that works off multiple types of economic freedom: the freedom of the corporations to protect their IP, and the freedom of individuals to use material for their own purposes without breaching copyright laws.

For some nations this will result in a net increase in economic freedom, for some a net decrease.

While you can't predict the exact effects without magic backstage-o-vision, you'll generally find that "competing freedoms within same category" issues will usually shift towards the middle ground. That is, very free nations will get less free, very restricted nations will get less restricted.

Isn't there a way to account for the wording - if an issue favors corporations, wouldn't that actually increase the wage gap, and if an issue favors "the little guy", won't that decrease the wage gap?