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[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.

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Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20894
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:39 pm

Bear Connors Paradiso wrote:I don't know where to put this, but I've gotten the same exact issue 3 times in 2 days (???) It's issue 1507, nothing special I can tell by it. But surely with 1500 issues, I wouldn't get the same one in each rendition of my issue renewals ???

I have it in my queue right now, and then it came up the following times:
3 hours ago: Following new legislation in Bear Connors Paradiso, life is somewhat repetitive.
16 hours ago: Following new legislation in Bear Connors Paradiso, life is somewhat repetitive.

Looking at the effect line, maybe choosing that particular option sets up a loop and you have to either choose a different one instead or just dismiss the issue in order to break free?
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474, 1521.

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SherpDaWerp
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1400
Founded: Mar 02, 2016
Libertarian Police State

Postby SherpDaWerp » Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:24 pm

Bears Armed wrote:
Bear Connors Paradiso wrote:I don't know where to put this, but I've gotten the same exact issue 3 times in 2 days (???) It's issue 1507, nothing special I can tell by it. But surely with 1500 issues, I wouldn't get the same one in each rendition of my issue renewals ???

I have it in my queue right now, and then it came up the following times:
3 hours ago: Following new legislation in Bear Connors Paradiso, life is somewhat repetitive.
16 hours ago: Following new legislation in Bear Connors Paradiso, life is somewhat repetitive.

Looking at the effect line, maybe choosing that particular option sets up a loop and you have to either choose a different one instead or just dismiss the issue in order to break free?

That gimmick (Option 4 causing the issue to repeat) was discussed in drafting here.

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Bear Connors Paradiso
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 126
Founded: Jan 03, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bear Connors Paradiso » Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:39 pm

SherpDaWerp wrote:
Bears Armed wrote:Looking at the effect line, maybe choosing that particular option sets up a loop and you have to either choose a different one instead or just dismiss the issue in order to break free?

That gimmick (Option 4 causing the issue to repeat) was discussed in drafting here.

Alright well I guess I'll dismiss it and see if it comes back.

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New Galactic States
Attaché
 
Posts: 95
Founded: May 11, 2022
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby New Galactic States » Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:32 am

I can’t remember the issue name, but it was one were I banned cars (I recently unbanned them) and my Insurance industry went up?, this issue happened about a month-ish ago, any reason why?

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Orwellism
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: May 04, 2022
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Orwellism » Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:44 am

in the issue "Much Ado About Abortion" i banned abortion but somehow civil rights rose up. Shouldn't it be the opposite?

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SherpDaWerp
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1400
Founded: Mar 02, 2016
Libertarian Police State

Postby SherpDaWerp » Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:45 am

Orwellism wrote:in the issue "Much Ado About Abortion" i banned abortion but somehow civil rights rose up. Shouldn't it be the opposite?

The Free Joy State wrote:Awhile back, the team (aware of the deep and personal feelings around the sensitive issue of abortion) took the -- perhaps controversial decision -- to (generally speaking, allowing for individual stats) programme a civil rights rise for both banning and allowing abortion.

Due to the strength of emotion it raises, we felt it inappropriate to come down on either side of this debate.

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Lofia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 15
Founded: Nov 19, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Lofia » Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:34 am

On http://www.mwq.dds.nl/ns/results/944.html, for Issue #944 Deadly Persuasion, I unexpectedly found a 5th option result saying "the nation is now officially a purple state" (not to be confused with the 4th option result "Children who write letters to Santa Claus end up in straitjackets"). There were only 3 data points recorded and I didn't find any info on this option on either https://nsindex.net/wiki/NationStates_Issue_No._944 nor https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=88&start=50#944.

Is this an Easter Egg or a deleted option?
Realm of Lofia · 洛菲亞王國 – "Tantum enim Terra · 唯為地球"
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The Marsupial Illuminati
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 1537
Founded: Jul 24, 2016
Free-Market Paradise

Postby The Marsupial Illuminati » Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:36 am

Lofia wrote:Is this an Easter Egg or a deleted option?

It is an option that appears under certain circumstances.
ὁ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ

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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9831
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:55 am

It requires you to have "Violetism" as your national religion.

That's rare and specific enough that it can almost be considered an easter egg, although it isn't a formal easter egg as defined by the game (it won't give you the easter egg trophy or anything).

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The Order of Makai
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 45
Founded: Mar 15, 2021
Mother Knows Best State

Lost Theocracy because of allowing Street Preachers?

Postby The Order of Makai » Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:56 am

- The name of the nation that had this effect - The Order of Makai
- The day that this effect was encountered - 6/22/22
- The name of the issue, and if you know it, the number of the issue. - Preach it! issue #891

I recently lost my Theocracy policy because of an issue despite the issue not giving any indication that I was allowing a religion other than the national faith to be practiced. All the issue was about was street preachers, so I ask, what gives? Just undo it on my nation and give me back my Theocracy policy please.
Last edited by The Order of Makai on Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Marsupial Illuminati
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 1537
Founded: Jul 24, 2016
Free-Market Paradise

Postby The Marsupial Illuminati » Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:41 pm

The Order of Makai wrote:- The name of the nation that had this effect - The Order of Makai
- The day that this effect was encountered - 6/22/22
- The name of the issue, and if you know it, the number of the issue. - Preach it! issue #891

I recently lost my Theocracy policy because of an issue despite the issue not giving any indication that I was allowing a religion other than the national faith to be practiced. All the issue was about was street preachers, so I ask, what gives? Just undo it on my nation and give me back my Theocracy policy please.

From the FAQ in the OP of this thread:

"Why did THIS policy switch on or turn off out of line with the issue's story?"

It may be an error, and something to report here. However, it may not. Read the below information first.

The following policies are not on/off binary flags directed by issue editors, but rather were implemented to change when your nation crosses above or below a certain threshold in various freedoms:

Theocracy
Free Press
Gun Ownership
State Press
No Dissent
No Drugs
No Gambling
Public Protest
No Marriage
Arranged Marriage
Atheism
Nudism
Prudity
State Surveillance

For example, Public Protest looks at a backstage number that often is coded to move when the right to protest is infringed or increased. When that number is below or above a certain threshold (lets arbitrarily say 700/1000, though these aren't the actual numbers) the policy can turn on or off. That means that even a tiny "side-effect" level movement of +1 or -1 can be enough to change the policy flag. Indeed, said change might not even be a result of a narrative relating to protests.

Because these "pseudo-policies" were late additions to the game code, we never considered their activation or deactivation in narratives when assigning the invisible stats that they're based upon, and the way we use such stats is guided by long-established operation rules, not with a view to considering these policies.

But hold on... it get's worse. Also, many of these pseudo-policies are based on stats that the game only generates for a nation the first time they are used. This means that the pseudo-policy may suddenly appear when that stat is generated, even if the decision is one which is pushing the stat away from the pseudo-policy's criterion.

For example, you could make a pro-nudity decision, and because it's the first ever decision made on this metric, the game would generate the invisible stat for your nation, then it'd notice you're now in range for Prudism, and ABRACADABRA, a pro-nudism decision generates Prudism for your nation.

Also the pseudopolicies are based upon specific interpretations of backstage stats, which have sometimes been used beyond those interpretations. For example, drug-related pseudopolicies has descriptive text implying that it is just about recreational drugs, whereas for a very long time we've also used the stat it references to also refer to freedom to use drugs of all sorts, including medicines and painkillers. So you might allow someone to use painkillers, and cancel No Drugs.

Clearly this is creating major narrative disconnects, but the tech team hasn't got a good solution yet, so for now, just be aware that this is a known bug.
ὁ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ

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Terminus Station
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 138
Founded: Jun 13, 2022
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Terminus Station » Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:40 pm

The Ministers Exposing Themselves issue is about how politicians might have a conflict of interest being in office while owning stocks in the weapons industrial complex. I picked the option to fire them but that lowered my nation's integrity and rocketted Corruption? I think the wires may have been crossed here. Theres a huge political debate right now in the US about not letting people in office have stocks or at least to put them in a blind trust to not rig policies that would benefit those markets economically.

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The Marsupial Illuminati
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 1537
Founded: Jul 24, 2016
Free-Market Paradise

Postby The Marsupial Illuminati » Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:33 pm

Terminus Station wrote:The Ministers Exposing Themselves issue is about how politicians might have a conflict of interest being in office while owning stocks in the weapons industrial complex. I picked the option to fire them but that lowered my nation's integrity and rocketted Corruption? I think the wires may have been crossed here. Theres a huge political debate right now in the US about not letting people in office have stocks or at least to put them in a blind trust to not rig policies that would benefit those markets economically.

Thank you for your report. I agree that this is problematic. I see backstage that the problem has to do with the factors that make up the Corruption stat. The model could definitely use improvement. I will bring this to the attention of my fellow editors. To fix this problem would require a new version of the current model. This means that a fix will take months or even years. Consider this a known bug.
ὁ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ

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Comfed
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Posts: 1709
Founded: Apr 09, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Comfed » Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:50 pm

I picked option two for issue #878 and the following stats took massive hits:
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=com ... ensusid=53
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=com ... ensusid=45
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=com ... ensusid=73
Why? How does this make sense? Especially for the first two? For context, this is the option:
2. "Freedom is slavery," observes your Minister of Plenty, while carrying out his daily physical jerks to keep himself fit. "Grab those who complain, and strip them of their liberty by putting them to forced labour in service of the state. Good citizens will have the incentive to behave better, and our economy will benefit from a costless workforce."

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=88&p=33286601&hilit=Freedom+is+Slavery#p33286601
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WA (Co-)Authorship: SC#390

10000 Islands Foreign Affairs wrote:~The population of 10000 Islands suffered a huge increase
Ankuran wrote:"Here's Form T-34 for issuing a bribe. Enter the recipient's name here, check reason for bribe here, enter amount here. Now we'll just swipe your card here. Would you like to join our Frequent Briber's Club? Get five percent cash back on your first bribe."
[violet] wrote:lol
Douglas Adams wrote:In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, everybody dies.
Nation reflects RL beliefs, especially bad ones. All stats are canon.

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Teslin
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: May 17, 2022
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Teslin » Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:27 am

SherpDaWerp wrote:
Orwellism wrote:in the issue "Much Ado About Abortion" i banned abortion but somehow civil rights rose up. Shouldn't it be the opposite?

The Free Joy State wrote:Awhile back, the team (aware of the deep and personal feelings around the sensitive issue of abortion) took the -- perhaps controversial decision -- to (generally speaking, allowing for individual stats) programme a civil rights rise for both banning and allowing abortion.

Due to the strength of emotion it raises, we felt it inappropriate to come down on either side of this debate.


That's such a nonsensical policy.... plenty of things are controversial, doesn't change that banning abortion is placing restrictions that weren't there before. It's only logical that would lower civil rights.

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Verdant Haven
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 1204
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Verdant Haven » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:05 pm

Comfed wrote:I picked option two for issue #878 and the following stats took massive hits:
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=com ... ensusid=53
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=com ... ensusid=45
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=com ... ensusid=73
Why? How does this make sense? Especially for the first two? For context, this is the option:
2. "Freedom is slavery," observes your Minister of Plenty, while carrying out his daily physical jerks to keep himself fit. "Grab those who complain, and strip them of their liberty by putting them to forced labour in service of the state. Good citizens will have the incentive to behave better, and our economy will benefit from a costless workforce."

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=88&p=33286601&hilit=Freedom+is+Slavery#p33286601


Instituting slavery has some interesting effects when it comes to how a nation's economic freedoms are perceived. When you selected that option, your economic freedom increased dramatically. Why? Because when people are enslaved, they can be used as labor and treated however the heck an employer wants - no employment laws or regulations constraining their economic activity. Because you already had a super-repressive and locked down nation, your civil rights couldn't get any worse from what you did, but overall economic freedoms were perceived to improve. That leads to Authoritarianism and Ideological Radicality seeing overall freedom levels increasing, so they went down.

As for Average Income of Poor... slaves get paid nothing. As a result, whomever is enslaved is now the poorest of "the poor," and the average wages of that group now include at least some proportion of people whose wages are absolutely zero.
- Verdant Haven

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Teslin
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: May 17, 2022
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Teslin » Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:52 pm

Legalizing abortion in my country increased crime for some reason.

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Steelfeather Rapture 2
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 17
Founded: Nov 17, 2021
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Steelfeather Rapture 2 » Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:31 pm

Steelfeather Rapture 2
2022-07-02
Big Trouble in Little Dàguó (#808)

This issue decreased ideological radicality for some reason. It also reduced obesity rates.

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Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20894
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:22 am

Teslin wrote:Legalizing abortion in my country increased crime for some reason.

Probably just a side-effect of increasing Civil Rights.
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474, 1521.

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Teslin
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: May 17, 2022
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Teslin » Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:51 pm

I chose the first option on issue 1123 (AKA allowing a woman to have a child from her dead husband) and it increased social conservatism for some reason. It also lowered intelligence and civil rights, albeit barely. The civil rights drop could make sense, I guess, but nonetheless I don't really see how allowing what is, in effect, a sort of artificial insemination, would make my country more conservative.

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Phydios
Minister
 
Posts: 2448
Founded: Dec 06, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Phydios » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:12 pm

Teslin wrote:I chose the first option on issue 1123 (AKA allowing a woman to have a child from her dead husband) and it increased social conservatism for some reason. It also lowered intelligence and civil rights, albeit barely. The civil rights drop could make sense, I guess, but nonetheless I don't really see how allowing what is, in effect, a sort of artificial insemination, would make my country more conservative.

As a stat, Social Conservatism is the opposite of Civil Rights. It goes up when civil rights go down, and vice versa.
James 1:26-27, Matthew 7:21-23
If you claim to be religious but don’t control your tongue, you are fooling yourself, and your religion is worthless. Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you. | Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

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Flanderlion
Minister
 
Posts: 2085
Founded: Nov 25, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Flanderlion » Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:55 pm

Charmlessness
Kardashian Reflex Score 730.69 → 731.63 0.13%

Weather
Meters Of Sunlight -966.00 → -965.00 0.10%

Rudeness
Insults Per Minute 214.84 → 215.03 0.09%

Defense Forces
Total War Preparedness Rating 74,390.29 → 74,438.41 0.06%

Patriotism
Flags Saluted Per Person Per Day 190.69 → 190.74 0.03%

Government Size
Bureaucratic Comprehensiveness Rating Scale Index 88.56 → 88.57 0.01%

Black Market
Denarii 27,380,966,800,000,000 → 27,381,779,300,000,000 0.003%

Industry: Arms Manufacturing
Charon Conveyancy Index 226,261.24 → 226,254.53 0.003%

Sector: Manufacturing
Gooback-Jerbs Productivity Index 245,467.83 → 245,460.54 0.003%

Tourism
Tourists Per Hour 9.06 → 9.05 0.11%

Culture
Snufflebottom-Wiggendum Pentatonic Scale -497.00 → -498.00 0.20%

Food Quality
Meeshlin-Starr Index 1.08 → 1.07 0.93%

Why does deploying tanks to the border/threatening war in #801 result in my defence forces increasing, but my manufacturing/arms manufacturing dropping? Surely my defence forces would require more arms/material for an operation?
As always, I'm representing myself.
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Trotterdam
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9831
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:22 am

You could import weapons from another country?

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Verdant Haven
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 1204
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Verdant Haven » Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:14 am

Flanderlion wrote:Why does deploying tanks to the border/threatening war in #801 result in my defence forces increasing, but my manufacturing/arms manufacturing dropping? Surely my defence forces would require more arms/material for an operation?


With a change that minuscule, what you're seeing is a knock-on effect where a change to something else is creating a slight modification downstream. I suspect what you're seeing is that when the government redirects more of its funding into the military directly, it is slightly reducing the funding dedicated to other places, like manufacturing subsidies. The increase in your Defense Forces was around 20 times larger than the decrease in your Arms Manufacturing. The economic model of the game isn't complex enough to capture specific ideas about where you're sourcing equipment, but I admit this may feel a bit odd. I'll bring it up backstage just to be 100% sure that everything is copacetic.
- Verdant Haven

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New Galactic States
Attaché
 
Posts: 95
Founded: May 11, 2022
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby New Galactic States » Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:28 am

New Galactic States wrote:I can’t remember the issue name, but it was one were I banned cars (I recently unbanned them) and my Insurance industry went up?, this issue happened about a month-ish ago, any reason why?

Still waiting for a answer

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