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[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.

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Merykor
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Jun 13, 2020
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Merykor » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:42 am

13/02/2021, 8'20 TMZ-3

Issue 1028 - Can't get enough of you, baby

The issue:
With one of the lowest birth rates in all of @@REGION@@, several experts have warned that over time @@NAME@@ will face difficulties in sustaining its economy due to the increasingly ageing population.

The answer:
“Excuse me, some of us don’t want kids.” cries well-known career-woman, @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@. “I’ve worked hard to get to where I am in my life right now, and I will not sacrifice my career and my ambitions to breed some snotty-nosed kids. Pregnancy is hard work too; who needs it? I hear that new vat-technology is doing wonders in other places. If you desperately need new grunts, why don’t you just grow some and leave us out of it?”

Problems:

1. It outlawed sexual reproduction, which the issue itself didn't make clear enough would happen, it could be just complimentary to normal reproduction, as I thought was suggested on the issue itself;
2. It took away the policy of Sexual Education, which, even if people can't reproduce, is important to teach things like consent and because other countries do have sexual reproduction and sex is not just for reproduction;
3. It made conservatism grow by over 20%, and I don't know a single conservative who would support extiction of sexual reproduction and even less that'd support lab-made children only;
4. Civil rights fell by 6%, which, considering the first problem, makes some sense, but it doesn't outlaw having children exactly, because the labs need genes from somewhere and the problem presented on the issue is that too few people were having children, so someone wanting would be a plus, with labs making children for consenting people that so desire, giving the baby once it's born, besides the policy not outlawing adoption.

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The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 14104
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:25 am

Merykor wrote:13/02/2021, 8'20 TMZ-3

Issue 1028 - Can't get enough of you, baby

The issue:
With one of the lowest birth rates in all of @@REGION@@, several experts have warned that over time @@NAME@@ will face difficulties in sustaining its economy due to the increasingly ageing population.

The answer:
“Excuse me, some of us don’t want kids.” cries well-known career-woman, @@RANDOMFEMALENAME@@. “I’ve worked hard to get to where I am in my life right now, and I will not sacrifice my career and my ambitions to breed some snotty-nosed kids. Pregnancy is hard work too; who needs it? I hear that new vat-technology is doing wonders in other places. If you desperately need new grunts, why don’t you just grow some and leave us out of it?”

Problems:

1. It outlawed sexual reproduction, which the issue itself didn't make clear enough would happen, it could be just complimentary to normal reproduction, as I thought was suggested on the issue itself;
2. It took away the policy of Sexual Education, which, even if people can't reproduce, is important to teach things like consent and because other countries do have sexual reproduction and sex is not just for reproduction;
3. It made conservatism grow by over 20%, and I don't know a single conservative who would support extiction of sexual reproduction and even less that'd support lab-made children only;
4. Civil rights fell by 6%, which, considering the first problem, makes some sense, but it doesn't outlaw having children exactly, because the labs need genes from somewhere and the problem presented on the issue is that too few people were having children, so someone wanting would be a plus, with labs making children for consenting people that so desire, giving the baby once it's born, besides the policy not outlawing adoption.

The text you list is not the text of the issue in its current form (nor has it been for over two years). The text currently reads (emphasis mine):
“Excuse me, some of us don’t want kids.” cries well-known career-woman, @@RANDOMNAMEFEMALE@@. “I’ve worked hard to get to where I am in my life right now, and I will not sacrifice my career and my ambitions to breed some snotty-nosed kids. Pregnancy is hard work too; nobody should be put through that. I hear that new vat-technology is doing wonders in other places. If you desperately need new brats, why don’t you just grow them all in a lab and leave us poor women out of it completely?”

In its current form, it clarifies that all children will be grown in vats (as "nobody" should be put through childbirth)

The introduction of mandatory vat reproduction explains the fall in civil rights. In NS, social conservatism is a secondary stat that is somewhat adversely related to civil rights (usual disclaimers about every nations' personal stats being different and reacting differently apply).

To prevent future issues of this nature, I suggest you read options carefully, as they currently stand. While not guaranteed to prevent all future problems, going to your Settings and turning on "Require confirmation before passing legislation" should help.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Polis Diamonil
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 44
Founded: Dec 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Polis Diamonil » Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:46 pm

There are errors in Issue #841. The libertarian civil rights option (#2) reduces civil rights, while the authoritarian primitivist option that bans chemicals from the public (#3) is considered to reduce neither rights nor science. Most inappropriately of all, option #4, which is one of the most unfathomably rude policies in the entire game, is treated as reducing rudeness.

I'm dismossing the issue for now, but I'm filing a report as I think it should be fixed.
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Noahs Second Country
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 1823
Founded: Aug 31, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Noahs Second Country » Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:57 pm

Polis Diamonil wrote:There are errors in Issue #841. The libertarian civil rights option (#2) reduces civil rights, while the authoritarian primitivist option that bans chemicals from the public (#3) is considered to reduce neither rights nor science. Most inappropriately of all, option #4, which is one of the most unfathomably rude policies in the entire game, is treated as reducing rudeness.

I'm dismossing the issue for now, but I'm filing a report as I think it should be fixed.

Can you clarify your issue?

I suspect you're looking at a stats database or something to draw these conclusions if you dismissed the issue. Do note that every nation will be changed in a different way and a database isn't necessarily what determines how an issue will change your nation. If that's the case, there's no unusual effect to act upon here.
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Bormiar wrote: reckless and greedy, closer to a character issue than something to be rewarded.
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Sebastia-Zachistan
Attaché
 
Posts: 74
Founded: Jun 01, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sebastia-Zachistan » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:19 pm

2/17/2021, ~12:30 PM EST

Issue #152 - A Capital Idea

I took option #3, in order to restore small-scale capitalism. Before I took this option, my economy consisted of 0% private industry, ~88% state-owned industry, and ~12% government. I expected option #3 to turn some small portion of my state-owned industry into private industry. Instead, it turned literally all of my state-owned industry into private industry (which is what I would've expected option #1 to do).

I'm willing to accept it if this is working as intended (not like there's anything I could do about it even if I wasn't), but I very much think in that case that this is a very misleading choice. Obviously NS issues are usually designed with unintended consequences in mind, but this seems particularly egregious to me.
Last edited by Sebastia-Zachistan on Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:55 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Land With a Proper Amount of Shrimp
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Sep 18, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Issue 590

Postby Land With a Proper Amount of Shrimp » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:53 am

So I got a result here that surprised me slightly. Maybe it's not a bug, but maybe it is? Just wanted to make sure it's working as intended! Issue 590, I chose the "de-industrialization option". Figured this would make my nation more primitive, but in actuality...my Primitive stat went from -7.06 to -12.20. Eh? This option got rid of my nuclear power, got rid of my space program and I would *think* it would increase my primitiveness but maybe not? Just wondering if this is working as intended.

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Reorganisieren Reichregierung
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 416
Founded: Jan 23, 2017
Corporate Police State

Postby Reorganisieren Reichregierung » Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:46 am

Issue 137 is weird
When I selected option 1 ("the arms industry is backed by government subsidies and harsh anti-protest laws are in place"), civil rights went up while weaponization when down.
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Silver-Tree
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Mar 29, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Silver-Tree » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:14 am

Accepting an AI controlled economy has turned the economy socialist. How can these be reversed?

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The Yeetusa
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 169
Founded: Oct 17, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Yeetusa » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:31 am

1/3/2021- 12:25 PM EST

Issue #95- "Painful Prices Paid At The Pump"

I chose option #1 to boost my Timber Woodchipping industry, and surprisingly the stat went down by 0.32% after being chosen. Doesn't seem right to me :P

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Land Without Shrimp
Envoy
 
Posts: 211
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Land Without Shrimp » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:36 pm

Silver-Tree wrote:Accepting an AI controlled economy has turned the economy socialist. How can these be reversed?

There are multiple issues that will let you get rid of that socialist policy. Just wait for one of them to come along...:)

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Noahs Second Country
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 1823
Founded: Aug 31, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Noahs Second Country » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:49 pm

The Yeetusa wrote:1/3/2021- 12:25 PM EST

Issue #95- "Painful Prices Paid At The Pump"

I chose option #1 to boost my Timber Woodchipping industry, and surprisingly the stat went down by 0.32% after being chosen. Doesn't seem right to me :P

The timber industry decreased slightly as part of an overall ripple effect through most of your industries besides mining and auto manufacturing. The option doesn't really create an additional need for wood, nor does it imply that the wood will be used for monetary purposes.

Silver-Tree wrote:Accepting an AI controlled economy has turned the economy socialist. How can these be reversed?

This is intentional and probably not the thread to ask this - there are plenty of ways to reverse it, be patient.

Land With a Proper Amount of Shrimp wrote:So I got a result here that surprised me slightly. Maybe it's not a bug, but maybe it is? Just wanted to make sure it's working as intended! Issue 590, I chose the "de-industrialization option". Figured this would make my nation more primitive, but in actuality...my Primitive stat went from -7.06 to -12.20. Eh? This option got rid of my nuclear power, got rid of my space program and I would *think* it would increase my primitiveness but maybe not? Just wondering if this is working as intended.

Things do appear to be working properly. A three thousand point increase in your Public Education funding contributed significantly to that effect. Considering the wording of the option, I can definitely understand how that can be misleading though.
Westinor wrote:Who knew the face of Big Farma could be the greatest hero of the Cards Proleteriat?
Honeydewistania wrote:Such spunk and arrogance that he welcomes the brigade of hatred!
WeKnow wrote:I am not a fan of his in the slightest.
Benevolent 0 wrote:You can't seem to ever portray yourself straight.
Bormiar wrote: reckless and greedy, closer to a character issue than something to be rewarded.
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Kiritibati
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: May 05, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kiritibati » Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:30 am

- Nation: Me
- Time: 1 minute ago
- Issue: 1262

The 3rd option of this issue should have increased inclusiveness, since isn't it about including more cultures?

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Luna Amore
Issues Moderator
 
Posts: 12651
Founded: Antiquity
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Luna Amore » Wed Mar 03, 2021 8:05 am

Kiritibati wrote:- Nation: Me
- Time: 1 minute ago
- Issue: 1262

The 3rd option of this issue should have increased inclusiveness, since isn't it about including more cultures?

It's not really discussing inclusiveness. It definitely boosts culture (as it should), but I think it's a stretch to say it would lead to more inclusiveness since it is an issue option concerning more exotic food dishes.

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Arcturus Novus
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6626
Founded: Dec 03, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Arcturus Novus » Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:04 am

On issue 538, selecting the option to remove gender markers from public bathrooms raises inclusivity, but it also raises conservatism and authoritarianism, and lowers civil rights. Confused as to why this result would be seen as socially conservative.
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Merconitonitopia
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Posts: 1629
Founded: Jul 29, 2013
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Merconitonitopia » Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:38 am

Arcturus Novus wrote:On issue 538, selecting the option to remove gender markers from public bathrooms raises inclusivity, but it also raises conservatism and authoritarianism, and lowers civil rights. Confused as to why this result would be seen as socially conservative.

This is a result of the stats being oddly defined/labelled.
Civil rights more or less means freedom from government meddling in people's lives. The exact nature of that meddling is unimportant; if the gov't's telling you what's what, that lowers CR. (I seem to recall reading that the exact subindex of CR that this issue option modifies is concerned with privacy, but don't quote me on that.)
Social conservatism is just a direct inverse of CR, hence the apparently paradoxical outcome.
Authoritarianism is an amalgam of the three freedoms (CR, political freedom, and base economic freedom) inversed.

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Bodpa
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Mar 04, 2021
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Bodpa » Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:56 pm

Issue 908, option 1, this nation. Tagline was "The government's fruit business reeks of rotting produce and corruption." but strangely, it nearly halvedmy nation's corruption. One of these 2 is a problem.

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The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 14104
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:52 pm

Bodpa wrote:Issue 908, option 1, this nation. Tagline was "The government's fruit business reeks of rotting produce and corruption." but strangely, it nearly halvedmy nation's corruption. One of these 2 is a problem.

Actually, neither of these two is a problem.

Firstly, we don't base stats on effect lines at any time.

Secondly, the corruption change you see is a secondary stat, partly based on a number of different stats, some of which are correctly present in the issue. This means that, on individual nations the effects may vary (running it through some test nations, many did receive a rise in corruption, some saw no change). On a very new nation, such as yours, some effects may seem very pronounced. Stat changes tend to level out as you pick a direction and stick with it (for more information on this, see the OP, under "Why did this stat change by X%? That's too much / too little!")

For the future, I suggest you go to "Settings" and turn on "Show More Stats", which will show raw numbers, which are often less alarming than percentages. Your 39.0% fall was only a fall from 10.58 to 6.45 in raw numbers.
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Spoiledland
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Mar 15, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Spoiledland » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:51 pm

In issue "Shepherds Without a Flock", civil rights do not fall, if you choose the option of mandatory religious services.
The freedom not to worship at all is a basic human right...

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The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 14104
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:48 pm

Spoiledland wrote:In issue "Shepherds Without a Flock", civil rights do not fall, if you choose the option of mandatory religious services.
The freedom not to worship at all is a basic human right...

I can confirm that a fall in civil rights is programmed (although stats interact with individuals' nations stats, meaning that they do not effect all nations in the same way). However, you did receive a fall in civil rights.

Upon answering "Shepherds Without a Flock", your civil rights fell from 50.00 to 45.63, a 8.7% drop.

The issue is working as intended.

Did you expand to show all stat changes with the "Detail" button? If not, perhaps you missed it.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Disorder
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 200
Founded: Nov 17, 2020
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby The Disorder » Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:31 am

In issue #639 (No Country for Old Men), I chose this option:

“Why bother with retirement anyway?” asks Diego Rifkin, a rather young basket weaving CEO whose employees consist mostly of his ageing relatives. “I mean, the only reason it exists is just so old people can laze around doing nothing, right? So why don’t we remove it altogether and make it so that people have to work no matter how old they are? Sure, incidents like that doctor who left his false teeth inside a patient might be more common than before; but that’s the price you have to pay for the sake of productivity.”


Somehow, siding with greedy CEOs & abolishing retirement resulted in greater income equality?! I'm trying to drive up wealth gaps as much as possible! Then this comes along and utterly eviscerates my wealth gap stat! I was at 159:1 yesterday, and this one issue put me all the way down to 102:1 !!!

I guess I'm just going to have to start using this resource to drive wealth gaps consistently upward, because being rational about it isn't working:
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SherpDaWerp
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1072
Founded: Mar 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby SherpDaWerp » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:42 pm

Wealth Gaps are (mostly) based off Economic Freedom, such that more EF means more Wealth Gaps. By forcing people to work, you're reducing their EF, and so you're reducing your Wealth Gaps. This is a known effect listed the FAQ at the start of this thread.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:A common complaint is that when you make a decision that is intended to affect the rights of the poor or the rich, income inequality goes the wrong way.

This is to do with the limited toolset in the sim. Essentially, if you restrict economic freedoms, wealth gaps tend to decrease. If you increase economic freedoms, wealth gaps tend to increase.

There's lots more complexity to that behind the scenes, but the most common cause of mismatch between narratives and wealth gaps is due to this.

Sometimes, IRL, a reduction in economic freedom can result in greater wealth gaps. However, the sim doesn't allow for that.
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200LWU
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Feb 28, 2021
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby 200LWU » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:34 am

- The name of the nation that had this effect: 200LWU
- The day that this effect was encountered: Just now
- The name of the issue, and if you know it, the number of the issue: What Goes Up Breaks Down #1005

Option Chosen: “We must build our own planes!” screams Air Force Marshall @@RANDOMNAME@@. “The FK-2 @@ANIMAL@@ is a symbol of @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ superiority and cannot be replaced by any foreign import. Yes, the fighters have to be modernised, but only with contracts given to local industries.”

Unusual Effect: Economy went down

Why would investing in one's own industries and producing goods make the economy worse?

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The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 14104
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:08 am

200LWU wrote:- The name of the nation that had this effect: 200LWU
- The day that this effect was encountered: Just now
- The name of the issue, and if you know it, the number of the issue: What Goes Up Breaks Down #1005

Option Chosen: “We must build our own planes!” screams Air Force Marshall @@RANDOMNAME@@. “The FK-2 @@ANIMAL@@ is a symbol of @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ superiority and cannot be replaced by any foreign import. Yes, the fighters have to be modernised, but only with contracts given to local industries.”

Unusual Effect: Economy went down

Why would investing in one's own industries and producing goods make the economy worse?

In brief, local industries did receive a rise, but businesses' ability to work with international businesses was impinged (so any businesses that relied on import would suffer). This interaction means that this option can have negative effects on Economy, which is a secondary stat that is made up of a number of backstage stats interacting with your nation (although it is worth saying that your Economy only fell from 61.17 to 61.08. a fall of 0.13%).

If you have not done so yet, I suggest you go to Settings and turn on "Show More Stats", which will show the raw numbers of your stats when you answer issues. These look less dramatic than percentages.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

My nation does not represent my beliefs or politics.

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200LWU
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Feb 28, 2021
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby 200LWU » Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:10 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
200LWU wrote:- The name of the nation that had this effect: 200LWU
- The day that this effect was encountered: Just now
- The name of the issue, and if you know it, the number of the issue: What Goes Up Breaks Down #1005

Option Chosen: “We must build our own planes!” screams Air Force Marshall @@RANDOMNAME@@. “The FK-2 @@ANIMAL@@ is a symbol of @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ superiority and cannot be replaced by any foreign import. Yes, the fighters have to be modernised, but only with contracts given to local industries.”

Unusual Effect: Economy went down

Why would investing in one's own industries and producing goods make the economy worse?

In brief, local industries did receive a rise, but businesses' ability to work with international businesses was impinged (so any businesses that relied on import would suffer). This interaction means that this option can have negative effects on Economy, which is a secondary stat that is made up of a number of backstage stats interacting with your nation (although it is worth saying that your Economy only fell from 61.17 to 61.08. a fall of 0.13%).

If you have not done so yet, I suggest you go to Settings and turn on "Show More Stats", which will show the raw numbers of your stats when you answer issues. These look less dramatic than percentages.


But given that the previous status quo in this sector was no spending at all (as opposed to free trade), wouldn't protectionism still be better than nothing?

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Yellow Astoria
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Mar 12, 2021
Libertarian Police State

Postby Yellow Astoria » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:04 pm

Hi. Yellow Astoria here. I got "#63 Tykes With Tools?" today and I chose to ban child labor. This lead to a rise in civil rights. I'm not complaining, just wondering what the logic behind this rise is. Thanks.
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Citizenship Policy: Full Citizenship
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