NATION

PASSWORD

[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 9267
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:08 pm

Bear Connors Paradiso wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:There's nothing unusual about these effects.

If there is never anything unusual, we wouldn't have a second 100 page thread having to explain them. Are the devs just dead set against telling us what the effects will be before we choose them? Then your job would be a lot easier!

I meant that there was nothing unusual about the effects that you received.

And, to answer your query: yes. We're not allowed to hand out stats and handing them out would change the game from being one of a satirical game of the unintended consequence of politics to... something else entirely.

The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:My rich incomes went down by over 50%, and my income inequality went down by about 70% too, all because I abolished feudalism. This doesn't make any sense because:

A. When feudalism is abolished, it generally causes it to go up, thanks to the displacement of feudal lords by capitalists (such as in the industrial revolution)
B. It went down when I put feudalism in, now it went down when I abolished it. Help?

When you ask a query, we need: the name/number of the issue, the option you picked, the effect, the date (if not today) and the nation (if not this one).

The economic simulation is, as explained in the OP, highly complex -- responding to a vast range of stats. The same is true specifically for incomes of the rich/poor and income inequality -- which are entirely secondary (not programmed by editors, but responsive to a range of stats put into the issue and your unique nation stats).

Try looking at the abolition of feudalism from the other angle -- both the feudal lords and serfs: the serfs are free now, they can work for whoever they want (but, if they are free to succeed, they are free to fail-- so this may not increase income equality). Likewise, wealthy feudal lords who could pay their serfs in produce now have to pay wages -- if they had 50 serfs working their land, they now have 50 paid employees (this will cost their pocket and cause a blip in their income).

Not every nation will receive such effects -- it depends very much where you begin.

As for bringing in feudalism, I have no idea when you did that, so can't track down the specific issue for you. But -- generally -- if you take away people's rights to choose their employment and strip them of financial recompense for their work, incomes go down (though this may not be true for all nations -- as I say a range of stats play into secondary stats, as does your nation's situation. Some people may see no change, or even a rise).
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

My nation does not represent my beliefs or politics.

User avatar
Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 18547
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:30 am

The Free Joy State wrote:Likewise, wealthy feudal lords who could pay their serfs in produce now have to pay wages -- if they had 50 serfs working their land, they now have 50 paid employees (this will cost their pocket and cause a blip in their income).
Unless what they now have is 50 sharecroppers...
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

User avatar
The World Capitalist Confederation
Minister
 
Posts: 3388
Founded: Dec 07, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby The World Capitalist Confederation » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:47 am

Candensia wrote:
The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:My rich incomes went down by over 50%, and my income inequality went down by about 70% too, all because I abolished feudalism. This doesn't make any sense because:

A. When feudalism is abolished, it generally causes it to go up, thanks to the displacement of feudal lords by capitalists (such as in the industrial revolution)
B. It went down when I put feudalism in, now it went down when I abolished it. Help?



A. When feudalism is abolished, it generally causes it to go up, thanks to the displacement of feudal lords by capitalists (such as in the industrial revolution)


I believe you chose 894.3. From what I read, rich incomes dropping, and income inequality dropping makes sense, as rich and powerful nobles are deposed (perhaps even by force.) The assumption that capitalists would fill the void of these nobles, causing income inequality and rich income to rise, was misplaced in this instance, as 894.3 has a socialist speaker, who would very likely advocate for the opposite.

With regards to question B, I must apologize, as I do not know the issue you received, or the option you chose.

Got it. So, don't assume that what you click backfires on you, basically?
Last edited by The World Capitalist Confederation on Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Meelducan wrote:He probably wouldn't get an endorsement from Weight Watchers.

New Political RP here!

User avatar
Lamaredia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1546
Founded: May 25, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Lamaredia » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:52 am

Nation: Lamaredia
When: Today
Issue: 1242, Jump Leads

I chose option 3, allowing for more climbing on public buildings to take place. My obesity went up from this, and I'm wondering which part of the option correlates to obesity going up. Is it because the health metric (which understandably went down) is the opposite of the obesity metric? Thank you!
Currently representing the SLP/R, Leading to a brighter future, in the NS Parliament RP as Representative Jonas Trägårdh Apelstierna.

Currently a co-admin of the NS Parliament RP

Political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.59

Result


Political test = Social Democrat
Cosmopolitan – 15%
Communistic - 44%
Anarchistic - 28%
Visionary - 50%
Secular - 53%
Pacifist - 12%
Anthropocentric– 16%

Result


Socio-Economic Ideology = Social Democracy
Social Democracy = 100%
Democratic Socialism = 83%
Anarchism 58%


Result
Last edited by Lamaredia on Fri June 07, 2019 1:05 AM, edited 52 times in total.

User avatar
The Marsupial Illuminati
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 1134
Founded: Jul 24, 2016
Tyranny by Majority

Postby The Marsupial Illuminati » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:12 am

Lamaredia wrote:Is it because the health metric (which understandably went down) is the opposite of the obesity metric?

Yes, you could say that. Consider this a known flaw in the game.
Last edited by The Marsupial Illuminati on Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Ghost Land
Diplomat
 
Posts: 704
Founded: Feb 14, 2014
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Ghost Land » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:09 pm

On my main nation 60s Music, how did 19.2 (legalizing all recreational drugs) plunge my economy and raise my taxes? I'd have thought it would be a deregulation and thus boost the economy and lower taxes.

Edit: my 600th post was about drugs? Nice!
Last edited by Ghost Land on Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Forum account/puppet of 60s Music.
Originally joined 24 April 2012.
Born around 1970 but still somehow under 30.
Me OOC
Awesome/Funny Quotes
Conservative libertarian
This nation reflects the OPPOSITE of my views.
Pro: Donald Trump, tougher border laws, 1st/2nd Amendments, benevolent dictators
Anti: Democratic Party, The Clintons, abortion, gun control, #MeToo, communism, racism and racial nationalism, forced diversity, SJWs

User avatar
The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 9267
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:39 pm

Ghost Land wrote:On my main nation 60s Music, how did 19.2 (legalizing all recreational drugs) plunge my economy and raise my taxes? I'd have thought it would be a deregulation and thus boost the economy and lower taxes.

Edit: my 600th post was about drugs? Nice!

Taxation is known to be a flaw in the simulation, covering only income tax.

Economy, too, is moved by a vast number of interconnected hidden stats, working with your nation's stats according to a very complex simulation. They can be somewhat unpredictable. Testing demonstrates that other nations may receive no change, or possibly a small rise.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

My nation does not represent my beliefs or politics.

User avatar
Perelingo
Secretary
 
Posts: 34
Founded: Aug 15, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Perelingo » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:26 am

Issue #1158, option 1 decreased my political freedoms indicator, when the issue was not at all about political rights, only arguably about civil rights.
Furthermore, my Inclusiveness value increased. How can political freedom be decreased when inclusiveness is increasing ?
Last edited by Perelingo on Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Candlewhisper Archive wrote:That is to say, the point has not only been missed, but you've used your crossbow to shoot yourself in the ass.

User avatar
Godular
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9552
Founded: Sep 09, 2004
New York Times Democracy

Postby Godular » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:32 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Phydios wrote:Your Scientific Advancement score is outrageously high. Raising it any higher is going to be very difficult- much like how speeding up takes increasingly more energy as you get closer to the speed of light. As far as I know, there's no hard cap, but raising any stat becomes increasingly harder the higher it is.

This is pretty much correct.

There is no cap, but -- the closer you get to any extreme with the stats -- the harder it is for visible changes to occur. If changes that occur are less than one hundredth of a percent of your total, you won't see them represented in your stats. There is still a background change occurring that we can see.


How the heck then are there folks younger than my nation with enormously larger scores?
RL position
Active RP: ASCENSION
Active RP: SHENRYAX
Dormant RP: Throne of the Fallen Empire

Faction 1: The An'Kazar Control Framework of Godular-- An enormously advanced collective of formerly human bioborgs engaged in a galaxy-spanning reign of terror for as-yet-unknown reasons. (SWG)
A 1.45 civilization, according to this Nation Index Thingie
I don't normally use NS stats. But when I do, I prefer Dos Eckis I can STILL kill you.
Post responsibly.

User avatar
The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 9267
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:37 am

Perelingo wrote:Issue #1158, option 1 decreased my political freedoms indicator, when the issue was not at all about political rights, only arguably about civil rights.

The option is changing "the system", referring to the political system, as courts are generally part of the wider political systems of a nation.

Furthermore, my Inclusiveness value increased. How can political freedom be decreased when inclusiveness is increasing ?

They are based on different backstage stats and measure different things. Inclusiveness measures "whether all citizens were commonly treated as equally valuable members of society".

There is nothing unusual in these stats.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

My nation does not represent my beliefs or politics.

User avatar
Candlewhisper Archive
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 19440
Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:56 am

Godular wrote:How the heck then are there folks younger than my nation with enormously larger scores?


First thing you can do is answer more issues. Very few stats change unless you answer issues. Population grows on its own, but your scientific advancement will only shift if you answer issues (not withstanding stat mechanic changes and WA resolutions). Age of your nation just reveals how many opportunities you've had to change your stats, not how often you've taken on those opportunities.

Second thing you could do is keep a close on eye on those FIVE nations in the world with higher scientific advancement than you, and see what decisions they're making to push their scientific advancement scores. Anon Zytose and Athretavri are the two nations who are a lot smaller than you but which have better advancement - maybe see if they've worked something out that you haven't.

User avatar
Forbokhethe
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 4
Founded: Jul 04, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Forbokhethe » Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:26 am

On Issue No. 136, the fourth option forces all families to have one child only and presumably aborts the rest because it talks about abortion as a means of population control while enforcing a one child policy. Despite this, answering the issue like this decreases authoritarianism. Seems kinda broken.

User avatar
ROFLOLMAO LAND
Secretary
 
Posts: 34
Founded: May 31, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby ROFLOLMAO LAND » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:18 pm

The Marsupial Illuminati wrote:
The Papal Republics wrote:Why would 251.2 cause my economy to contract by nearly 11 percent?

This is not at all unusual.
ROFLOLMAO LAND wrote:I know this choice typically gives a huge impact to your economy, but maybe too big here? Issue 490 Choice 1 took my economy down from 99.70 to 50.67. Govt spending was only 36.7% of GDP, and business subsidies were only 17% of that. Also crime went from 1.93 to 17. Pretty god dam sure that part is wrong atleast.

Again, idk, not a developer. Maybe I was getting too greedy with decresing my govt size.

Oh, god! The stat changes for that option are horrible.

My fellow editor, Candlewhisper Archive, is currently updating the stat effects of old issues so that they will be consistent with the stat changes of modern issues. This is because the stat effects of old issues tend to be more extreme. Currently, CWA is at Issue #432, and I am sure that he will get to #490 in the near future.

Got this issue again, has candlewhisper gotten to 490?

User avatar
Candlewhisper Archive
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 19440
Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:47 am

I'd kind of stopped, as we're getting into the era of issues where I was already editing, though I guess in the 400-500s I wasn't really doing much with stats other than trying to learn the ropes. I guess I'd better keep going for a couple of hundred more issues.

User avatar
Fauxia
Senator
 
Posts: 4015
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fauxia » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:20 am

690.3 dropped my civil rights on this nation by a small but notable amount (2.5/4%). Considering I already had a pledge of allegiance in place, I don’t think this should’ve had an effect. If anything, I’m giving people more freedom in how they recite it and it should raise civil rights. Am I missing something?
Don’t pick a fight with me, I am proficient with the weapon to which all shall fall in NationStates... inactivity.
Reploid Productions wrote:Unfortunately, Max still won't buy the mods elite ninja assassin squads to use, so... no such luck.

User avatar
Candlewhisper Archive
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 19440
Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:59 am

Fauxia wrote:690.3 dropped my civil rights on this nation by a small but notable amount (2.5/4%). Considering I already had a pledge of allegiance in place, I don’t think this should’ve had an effect. If anything, I’m giving people more freedom in how they recite it and it should raise civil rights. Am I missing something?


No, that sounds reasonable. Fixed.

User avatar
SherpDaWerp
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 105
Founded: Mar 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby SherpDaWerp » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:29 pm

Cutting down words to make a language easier to learn dropped my civil rights 4% and political freedoms 10% in 1194.2. I would understand the political freedom drop more if the issue description had more of an element of "they can't protest without words to express dissent", but the description is an immigrant who got confused by the language...
Just checking this is all correct, and if it is I should make not not to do that again. :meh:
I have the No Sex policy. For clarification: recreational sex is allowed, just not reproductive sex.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:That is to say, the point has not only been missed, but you've used your crossbow to shoot yourself in the ass.

User avatar
Candlewhisper Archive
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 19440
Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:55 am

SherpDaWerp wrote:Cutting down words to make a language easier to learn dropped my civil rights 4% and political freedoms 10% in 1194.2. I would understand the political freedom drop more if the issue description had more of an element of "they can't protest without words to express dissent", but the description is an immigrant who got confused by the language...
Just checking this is all correct, and if it is I should make not not to do that again. :meh:


I agree with you. Government limiting language is definitely a drop in free speech, so civil rights should fall, but there's no explicit call out on limiting political disagreement -- it'll just be less eloquent than before.

Poltiical freedom changes removed.

User avatar
SherpDaWerp
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 105
Founded: Mar 02, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby SherpDaWerp » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:09 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:I agree with you. Government limiting language is definitely a drop in free speech, so civil rights should fall, but there's no explicit call out on limiting political disagreement -- it'll just be less eloquent than before.

Poltiical freedom changes removed.

Neat.
I have the No Sex policy. For clarification: recreational sex is allowed, just not reproductive sex.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:That is to say, the point has not only been missed, but you've used your crossbow to shoot yourself in the ass.

User avatar
TalAkMaChen
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 119
Founded: Sep 04, 2006
New York Times Democracy

Postby TalAkMaChen » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:26 am

It might not be fully unusual, but 363.4 may change the Secularism value by up a few 80 points, i.e. per cent of capita. Recently it changed at War Dogs XXVI from 17 to 95% atheism rate of the populace. I agree, the option and effect are to dismiss faith and encourage science, but -- just by the government choosing that path (even with Public Protest not outlawed and, well, State Media) -- is such a big change (from one out of six being atheist to 19 out of 20) justified?
Last edited by TalAkMaChen on Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Candlewhisper Archive
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 19440
Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:32 am

TalAkMaChen wrote:It might not be fully unusual, but 363.4 may change the Secularism value by up a few 80 points, i.e. per cent of capita. Recently it changed at War Dogs XXVI from 17 to 95% atheism rate of the populace. I agree, the option and effect are to dismiss faith and encourage science, but -- just by the government choosing that path (even with Public Protest not outlawed and, well, State Media) -- is such a big change (from one out of six being atheist to 19 out of 20) justified?


It's got big effects but it's a big move. You're -- as a state -- condemning all religion as nonsense. That's a pretty hardline position to take.

User avatar
Alterrum
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 137
Founded: May 28, 2011
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Alterrum » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:42 am

Issue #1254: Sales on Rails, option 2 (legalizing on-board vendors) lowers income equality, which doesn't make sense, as it offers the poor an option to earn money; the game implicitly hints at this by the faulty language used by the vendor, implying a low-class background. I can understand if the economic freedom stat correlates with the wealth gaps stat (something that's unwarranted as well in my opinion, but it's a discussion for another time), and as the former increases, the game automatically increases the latter, but in this case the causation seems to be backwards: poor people clearly get another way of earning income, so wealth gaps should decrease along with an increase in economic freedom.

User avatar
Verdant Haven
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 460
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Verdant Haven » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:34 pm

I just received issue 625, which is about what to do with a significant value of intercepted illegal goods. I selected option 3, which is as follows:

“This is something of a haul, but these aren’t trade goods anymore: they’re evidence!” says Judiciary Director Sarah Voluntatem. “The goods should be stored as such till the legal processes are complete, then they should be carefully destroyed with a clear accounting trail to ensure ethical practice.”


The context of this and other potential responses makes it clear that this is the "laws as written" response, as well as the one that is supposed to be considered the most ethical and above-board. I was curious to discover however that it came with a civil rights hit.

In what way is it a reduction of civil rights to comply with the laws as they already exist, upholding proper, ethical, and transparent procedure? I certainly get that some of the other responses would increase civil rights and this wouldn't, but I don't feel like it makes sense that this would decrease them - it should be entirely neutral on the subject. Nobody's freedoms are being modified or impinged.

User avatar
Candlewhisper Archive
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 19440
Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:58 am

Alterrum wrote:Issue #1254: Sales on Rails, option 2 (legalizing on-board vendors) lowers income equality, which doesn't make sense, as it offers the poor an option to earn money; the game implicitly hints at this by the faulty language used by the vendor, implying a low-class background. I can understand if the economic freedom stat correlates with the wealth gaps stat (something that's unwarranted as well in my opinion, but it's a discussion for another time), and as the former increases, the game automatically increases the latter, but in this case the causation seems to be backwards: poor people clearly get another way of earning income, so wealth gaps should decrease along with an increase in economic freedom.


I agree with you in narrative terms, but simulation limitation prevents this being implemented.

User avatar
Candlewhisper Archive
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 19440
Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalizt

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:00 am

Verdant Haven wrote:I just received issue 625, which is about what to do with a significant value of intercepted illegal goods. I selected option 3, which is as follows:

“This is something of a haul, but these aren’t trade goods anymore: they’re evidence!” says Judiciary Director Sarah Voluntatem. “The goods should be stored as such till the legal processes are complete, then they should be carefully destroyed with a clear accounting trail to ensure ethical practice.”


The context of this and other potential responses makes it clear that this is the "laws as written" response, as well as the one that is supposed to be considered the most ethical and above-board. I was curious to discover however that it came with a civil rights hit.

In what way is it a reduction of civil rights to comply with the laws as they already exist, upholding proper, ethical, and transparent procedure? I certainly get that some of the other responses would increase civil rights and this wouldn't, but I don't feel like it makes sense that this would decrease them - it should be entirely neutral on the subject. Nobody's freedoms are being modified or impinged.


It's a hangover from the fact that "freedom to commit crime" is still a civil right.

That freedom was discussed almost two years ago and it was agreed it would be removed from the game, as nobody reasonably considers the freedom to commit crime to be a civil right.

Since that decision, we've been using that stat a lot less, as we were expecting it to leave the game. However, like all the other changes that were agreed to and went through beta around that time, we're still waiting on implementation.

Sorry.
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Got Issues?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Advertisement

Remove ads