NationStates

Posted: **Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:00 pm**

I chose Issue 567, option 1 on this nation today, and it resulted in a decrease in civil rights. How would mandating use of simple language in government documents reduce civil rights?

For reference:

The Talking Point

Government reports are now used to teach toddlers to read.

Reclassification

Merni's Civil Rights fell from Average to Below Average.

Posted: **Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:12 pm**

Merni wrote:I chose Issue 567, option 1 on this nation today, and it resulted in a decrease in civil rights. How would mandating use of simple language in government documents reduce civil rights?

For reference:
The Talking Point

Government reports are now used to teach toddlers to read.

Reclassification

Merni's Civil Rights fell from Average to Below Average.

Mandating simplistic language in reports was a restriction on free speech. The backstage numbers are small, but it just pushed you over the line from Average to Below Average civil rights.

With some pro-civil rights selections, it shouldn't take you too long to get back to where you were.

Posted: **Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:49 am**

Had an unusual Civil Rights reduction today. It wasn't huge, just surprising to me.

Issue 826, Licensing Driving @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ Crazy

The description explains that the volume of paperwork required to register your car and get a driver's license is huge, and takes a long time.

Full description text:

Option 1 is as follows:

“It’s very important that we get all this information from drivers,” explains Howard Kenobi, your Minister of Transportation. “We have to make absolutely sure that our roads are safe, that all drivers are properly licensed, and that cars reported stolen are easily identified. If that means a bit of extra paperwork, so be it. Increase our budget for staff and we’ll be able to expedite the registration process.”

As I read it, that option is maintaining the current paperwork levels and making processing faster. It isn't adding any new layers, or gathering any new information that isn't already being gathered according to the description.

Continuing to do what you're already doing doesn't make much sense as the cause of reducing civil rights. Any relevant reduction has already occured, by virtue of the premise. You're simply streamlining an extent process.

Posted: **Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:59 am**

Verdant Haven wrote:Had an unusual Civil Rights reduction today. It wasn't huge, just surprising to me.

Issue 826, Licensing Driving @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ Crazy

The description explains that the volume of paperwork required to register your car and get a driver's license is huge, and takes a long time.

Full description text:
Your cousin arrived at your office this afternoon, out of breath and deeply frustrated at having to spend day after day filling out forms, only to wait for six hours in a queue to register for another appointment to receive his 27B/6 form to finalize his registration and legally drive the sweet new ride he bought six weeks ago. You’ve agreed, after some persuasion, to hold a meeting with your Minister of Transportation and other experts to look into streamlining the process.

Option 1 is as follows:

“It’s very important that we get all this information from drivers,” explains Howard Kenobi, your Minister of Transportation. “We have to make absolutely sure that our roads are safe, that all drivers are properly licensed, and that cars reported stolen are easily identified. If that means a bit of extra paperwork, so be it. Increase our budget for staff and we’ll be able to expedite the registration process.”

As I read it, that option is maintaining the current paperwork levels and making processing faster. It isn't adding any new layers, or gathering any new information that isn't already being gathered according to the description.

Continuing to do what you're already doing doesn't make much sense as the cause of reducing civil rights. Any relevant reduction has already occured, by virtue of the premise. You're simply streamlining an extent process.

This option is insisting that the process of giving this information be mandatory for all drivers. Making this mandatory causes a small impingement on civil liberties, but an impingement nonetheless. As your civil rights were pretty good, you may have noticed the change more than another nation might.

Posted: **Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:16 am**

The Free Joy State wrote:This option is insisting that the process of giving this information be mandatory for all drivers. Making this mandatory causes a small impingement on civil liberties, but an impingement nonetheless.

Understood, but I mean... It already was mandatory. Car registration is required for all cars. Driver's licenses are required for all drivers. All the already required paperwork is the basis of the issue in the first place. The option didn't add any new procedures or change any laws - it just reaffirms what already exists and increases the staffing to make it easier to cope with. That's why I'm confused by the changed rights.

Posted: **Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:53 pm**

Verdant Haven wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:This option is insisting that the process of giving this information be mandatory for all drivers. Making this mandatory causes a small impingement on civil liberties, but an impingement nonetheless.

Understood, but I mean... It already was mandatory. Car registration is required for all cars. Driver's licenses are required for all drivers. All the already required paperwork is the basis of the issue in the first place. The option didn't add any new procedures or change any laws - it just reaffirms what already exists and increases the staffing to make it easier to cope with. That's why I'm confused by the changed rights.

There are three things mentioned that this option actively does, which the nation may or may not have been previously doing:

"We have to make absolutely sure that our roads are safe, that all drivers are properly licensed, and that cars reported stolen are easily identified. If that means a bit of extra paperwork, so be it.

It's that element of "mak[ing] absolutely sure" that all drivers are licensed and all cars stolen can be easily identified (which implies some sort of tracking, which may not have already been in place) that lowered your civil rights very slightly from 71.10 to 70.81 (a fall of 0.41%).

While the option plans to increase staff to streamline the process, it also says "if that means a bit of extra paperwork, so be it".

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:36 am**

I guess I just don't agree with that reading of it, for the reasons cited previously, but I appreciate you looking in to it and taking the time to reply twice!

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:58 am**

I received the issue titled "All Hands on Tap!" and I chose option 1, so people would wash their hands after using the toilet. This somehow increased the death rate by .19%. That just doesn't seem right to me.

Posted: **Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:36 am**

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I received the issue titled "All Hands on Tap!" and I chose option 1, so people would wash their hands after using the toilet. This somehow increased the death rate by .19%. That just doesn't seem right to me.

Death rate is a secondary stat that reacts to the primary hidden stats coded into the issue (which are correct). Unfortunately, secondary stats can be somewhat unpredictable, due to the way that the primary stats interract with each other and the unique stats of your nation.

It's possible for your death rate to rise, experience a slight fall or remain static with this issue. That's not an unusual effect; it's just the nature of secondary stats.

If you have not yet done so, I suggest you turn on "Show More Stats" in your settings, which will show you the numerical change, which often look less dramatic than percentage changes. Here, the numerical rise was from 193.86 to 194.22.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:16 am**

Issue 1194 gave me very extreme effects. This can't be right. I picked number 2. It reduces my political freedom 7 points, it was 83 before. And my civil rights is down 3 points, which was around 76. Please check it and let me know if this is unusual.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:34 am**

Socialist State of LAY wrote:Issue 1194 gave me very extreme effects. This can't be right. I picked number 2. It reduces my political freedom 7 points, it was 83 before. And my civil rights is down 3 points, which was around 76. Please check it and let me know if this is unusual.

In the future please start every report with:
1. the nation that answered
2. the issue and choice
3. the date you answered it (you answered this one over a week ago)

That said here's the option you picked:

The girl, now able to explain herself with the help of a police-appointed interpreter, says, “I apologize if I frightened anyone, as that was not my intention. I only wanted to share my interest in video games instead of repeating simple sentences about apples and cats. This never would have happened in the first place if your language wasn’t so confusing! Why not simplify it and cut down on the amount of words so that it’s easier for everyone to learn?”

Overly simplifying the language necessarily impacts political and civil speech. The effects seem appropriate to me.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:37 am**

The Free Joy State wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I received the issue titled "All Hands on Tap!" and I chose option 1, so people would wash their hands after using the toilet. This somehow increased the death rate by .19%. That just doesn't seem right to me.

Death rate is a secondary stat that reacts to the primary hidden stats coded into the issue (which are correct). Unfortunately, secondary stats can be somewhat unpredictable, due to the way that the primary stats interract with each other and the unique stats of your nation.

It's possible for your death rate to rise, experience a slight fall or remain static with this issue. That's not an unusual effect; it's just the nature of secondary stats.

If you have not yet done so, I suggest you turn on "Show More Stats" in your settings, which will show you the numerical change, which often look less dramatic than percentage changes. Here, the numerical rise was from 193.86 to 194.22.

Understood, thanks.

Posted: **Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:37 pm**

I'm a little hesitant to bring this up, since it's such an old issue, but I did a search and couldn't actually find this brought up anywhere else in this thread (or on the board in general)...

Issue #161 "Where There's a Will There's a Tax"

Issue text:

I selected option 2, which eliminates Inheritance Tax.

Option 2 text:

The effect line is "Inheritance tax has recently been abolished."

For my effects, it increased Taxation, and decreased Freedom From Taxation. Hurr?

Posted: **Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:40 am**

Verdant Haven wrote:For my effects, it increased Taxation, and decreased Freedom From Taxation. Hurr?

I believe that this is because a very large portion of the tax burden has shifted to the masses due to the removal of an important source of tax revenue. Statwise, this resulted in a small increase to your Taxation stat.

Posted: **Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:16 pm**

The Marsupial Illuminati wrote:
Verdant Haven wrote:For my effects, it increased Taxation, and decreased Freedom From Taxation. Hurr?

I believe that this is because a very large portion of the tax burden has shifted to the masses due to the removal of an important source of tax revenue. Statwise, this resulted in a small increase to your Taxation stat.

MI is correct. Additionally, I'd note that this is covered in the FAQ at the start of this thread.

Posted: **Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:35 am**

Issue 454, Option #3 increased income equality even though I promoted gentrification of urban land, allowing the rich to farm with large tracts of land?

EDIT: Today, by my nation.

Posted: **Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:31 pm**

So - quick sanity/stat check please? Just got Issue 490 on my nation Land Without Shrimp. I chose option 1 - slashing every department in half. Why not, right? Figured it'd be drastic, but I'm always keen for a good tax cut. Well, it definitely impacted my taxes, but by far more than I expected! I'm not complaining, but did just want to see if it was working as intended. My tax rate fell from 49.82 to 0.75. Is that normal?

Posted: **Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:48 pm**

Land Without Shrimp wrote:So - quick sanity/stat check please? Just got Issue 490 on my nation Land Without Shrimp. I chose option 1 - slashing every department in half. Why not, right? Figured it'd be drastic, but I'm always keen for a good tax cut. Well, it definitely impacted my taxes, but by far more than I expected! I'm not complaining, but did just want to see if it was working as intended. My tax rate fell from 49.82 to 0.75. Is that normal?

Did happen, yes. Looks like it happened twice, too. Also, it should probably only cut your taxes by about half - or 3/4 - at maximum. Even accounting for the economic contraction, which is barely 1% of your economy, nothing much should've happened.

Posted: **Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:21 pm**

In issue #780 I choosed to cut Vat taxes. Sorry but I can't understand how did it increase my Taxation in %0.3? Adding that issues which decreases taxation only does it in a ridiculous small amount, in the other hand that ones that increases it does a lot more. One issue can easily recover all the taxation I decreased in a full month.

Posted: **Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:34 pm**

In issue #373 ("Devil and the Deep Blue Funding Gap") on 4/23/2019 (today as of this posting) I chose in Glll Clewnk to support marine studies. I expected that Trout Farming would synergize with greater knowledge of the ocean. Instead Trout Farming went down.

Posted: **Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:58 pm**

Republica de Barin wrote:In issue #780 I choosed to cut Vat taxes. Sorry but I can't understand how did it increase my Taxation in %0.3? Adding that issues which decreases taxation only does it in a ridiculous small amount, in the other hand that ones that increases it does a lot more. One issue can easily recover all the taxation I decreased in a full month.

Tax in-game is only income tax.

Posted: **Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:50 pm**

The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:Issue 454, Option #3 increased income equality even though I promoted gentrification of urban land, allowing the rich to farm with large tracts of land?

EDIT: Today, by my nation.

Income equality is a secondary effect, influenced by some of the primary hidden stats that are present for this option.

Land Without Shrimp wrote:So - quick sanity/stat check please? Just got Issue 490 on my nation Land Without Shrimp. I chose option 1 - slashing every department in half. Why not, right? Figured it'd be drastic, but I'm always keen for a good tax cut. Well, it definitely impacted my taxes, but by far more than I expected! I'm not complaining, but did just want to see if it was working as intended. My tax rate fell from 49.82 to 0.75. Is that normal?

Yes. Having checked your backstage stats, I can confirm that everything is working perfectly normally. Your departments were all slashed by exactly half.

The problem with any stat based on percentages and not a set number is that they will have massively variable knock-on effects on individual nations.

Tax, which -- in the game is income tax -- is, in part a secondary knock-on effect (impacted by various factors). So, that can be highly variable with percentage changes.

It is working as intended.

Republica de Barin wrote:In issue #780 I choosed to cut Vat taxes. Sorry but I can't understand how did it increase my Taxation in %0.3? Adding that issues which decreases taxation only does it in a ridiculous small amount, in the other hand that ones that increases it does a lot more. One issue can easily recover all the taxation I decreased in a full month.

Basically, taxation only covers income tax. It's a known limitation in our simulation.

For more information, please see the OP of this thread, under: "Why didn't tax / unemployment / black market do what I expected it to?"

Glll Clewnk wrote:In issue #373 ("Devil and the Deep Blue Funding Gap") on 4/23/2019 (today as of this posting) I chose in Glll Clewnk to support marine studies. I expected that Trout Farming would synergize with greater knowledge of the ocean. Instead Trout Farming went down.

The Trout Farming industry is about eating fish, not studying them.

I see no reason why studying marine life should lead to a growth in this industry, especially when one is not promised by the option. This is not an unusual effect.

Posted: **Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:08 pm**

The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:
Land Without Shrimp wrote:So - quick sanity/stat check please? Just got Issue 490 on my nation Land Without Shrimp. I chose option 1 - slashing every department in half. Why not, right? Figured it'd be drastic, but I'm always keen for a good tax cut. Well, it definitely impacted my taxes, but by far more than I expected! I'm not complaining, but did just want to see if it was working as intended. My tax rate fell from 49.82 to 0.75. Is that normal?

Did happen, yes. Looks like it happened twice, too. Also, it should probably only cut your taxes by about half - or 3/4 - at maximum. Even accounting for the economic contraction, which is barely 1% of your economy, nothing much should've happened.

Please leave it for editors to answer these sorts of queries.

Posted: **Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:47 am**

The Free Joy State wrote:
The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:Issue 454, Option #3 increased income equality even though I promoted gentrification of urban land, allowing the rich to farm with large tracts of land?

EDIT: Today, by my nation.

Income equality is a secondary effect, influenced by some of the primary hidden stats that are present for this option.

Is it because my nation is already so unequal that, even though the issue would cause an increase in the wealth gap for a regular nation, it just caused it to go down?

Posted: **Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:31 am**

The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:Income equality is a secondary effect, influenced by some of the primary hidden stats that are present for this option.

Is it because my nation is already so unequal that, even though the issue would cause an increase in the wealth gap for a regular nation, it just caused it to go down?

Secondary stats, like income equality, are partly based on the backstage stats interacting with your own stats. Different nations will have different effects.

NationStates

[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

Lowering taxes oh My!

Cutting taxes increases them