[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

[Poiob]

Not to distract from the above well-articulated problem which I hope gets answered, but I'm about to go on a mini-vacation in real life (in which I don't have a computer) so I wanted to point out an issue before I forget later.

The rise in government size is due to the defence Ministry supporting new parents with boot camps and military schools. I'll perform a tweak on defence forces, so it should work differently in future.

Gotcha! Thanks for the help!

This is an ancient game that was cobbled together to promote a book. That it has grown and developed over the years from the work of volunteers while remaining entirely free to play is a testament to the strength of the community.

Even though the game is far bigger than the book now, it is still great promotion for Max Barry's books. I just finished reading Jennifer Government (minus the epilogue) over my vacation. What a ride

[The Midwest Marches]

A very helpful thread.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Even though the game is far bigger than the book now, it is still great promotion for Max Barry's books. I just finished reading Jennifer Government (minus the epilogue) over my vacation. What a ride

I thought it was pretty good. Lexicon was really good, though.

[Ghost Land]

Why did 125.2 lower my government size and tax rate, and substantially lower my eco-friendliness, foreign aid, business subsidization, and other stats? And why won't my political freedom get un-stuck from 11.14/100?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Why did 125.2 lower my government size and tax rate, and substantially lower my eco-friendliness, foreign aid, business subsidization, and other stats? And why won't my political freedom get un-stuck from 11.14/100?

The option proposes dropping taxes. The nature of the sim is that dropping taxes drops spending. All those stats you mention are measures of government spending of one sort or another.

Your political freedoms, meanwhile, were already at a maximal position in the metrics affected by this decision. See the opening post of this thread for an explanation of how freedoms may or may not move.

[Ghost Land]

Why did 125.2 lower my government size and tax rate, and substantially lower my eco-friendliness, foreign aid, business subsidization, and other stats? And why won't my political freedom get un-stuck from 11.14/100?

The option proposes dropping taxes. The nature of the sim is that dropping taxes drops spending. All those stats you mention are measures of government spending of one sort or another.

Your political freedoms, meanwhile, were already at a maximal position in the metrics affected by this decision. See the opening post of this thread for an explanation of how freedoms may or may not move.

Oops - missed the "lower taxes" line, so then the proper response for me in this issue would have been to dismiss it. And I knew those other stats were measures of government spending; I realised that one day recently when I found out that my government spending on the military, multiplied out, is the same as my Defense Forces stat, which also means the government of Ghost Land spends $21,000 per person on the military per year.

I know this might be a bit off-topic, but out of curiosity, what secondary stats within political freedom can still be lowered? Or will I be stuck at 11.14 forever no matter what?

[Slackertown]

The issue A for Effort.

I chose to offer free college for all.

My civil rights went down for some reason.

[Gudmund]

Issue #257 unexpected stat changes.

Option 4 states:

"Hah! Like that will work!" snorts @@RANDOMNAME@@, Minister of Waste Disposal and Sanitation. "They'll just come after the rest of us and destroy the government from the bottom up! No, we need to go even further - reinforce the Parliament! We'll turn @@CAPITAL@@ into an impenetrable fortress! Robot bodyguards, food tasters... no expense should be spared! We should all do our jobs through a complex network of computers so we never have to leave the safety of our offices again!"

The result of selecting option 4 states:

"Nobody ever seems to enter or leave the armour-plated flying castle that serves as @@NAME@@'s House of Parliament."

The bolded words gave me the impression that my Scientific Advancement score would increase, definitely Information Technology in the least. Robot bodyguards in humanoid form must be far more advanced to be of actual use. They must be combat capable, and have advanced AI to understand the situation unless the robot bodyguards aren't humanoid (they might be small tanks or drones for all I know). What about the government backed 'complex network of computers'? It actually decreased the Information Technology stat for some reason? What about the literal armour-plated flying castle? Surely that would increase SA?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

I know this might be a bit off-topic, but out of curiosity, what secondary stats within political freedom can still be lowered?

We're not permitted to share the names of the secondary metrics or how they work, but some players have intuited them. Best to discuss such things outside of the thread though, and ideally not in this forum.

Or will I be stuck at 11.14 forever no matter what?

No, it is possible for you to get more restrictive political freedoms.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

The issue A for Effort.

I chose to offer free college for all.

My civil rights went down for some reason.

That's correct.The relevant part is here:

Why not just make going to college mandatory for every Slackertownian?

Mandatory education is a breach of the freedoms of the young, even if it could be seen as a beneficial thing. Mandatory anything tends to be considered anti-freedom by this sim, and civil rights in this game are generally defined as relating to the freedoms that government allows to its people.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Issue #257 unexpected stat changes.

Option 4 states:

"Hah! Like that will work!" snorts @@RANDOMNAME@@, Minister of Waste Disposal and Sanitation. "They'll just come after the rest of us and destroy the government from the bottom up! No, we need to go even further - reinforce the Parliament! We'll turn @@CAPITAL@@ into an impenetrable fortress! Robot bodyguards, food tasters... no expense should be spared! We should all do our jobs through a complex network of computers so we never have to leave the safety of our offices again!"

The result of selecting option 4 states:

"Nobody ever seems to enter or leave the armour-plated flying castle that serves as @@NAME@@'s House of Parliament."

The bolded words gave me the impression that my Scientific Advancement score would increase, definitely Information Technology in the least. Robot bodyguards in humanoid form must be far more advanced to be of actual use. They must be combat capable, and have advanced AI to understand the situation unless the robot bodyguards aren't humanoid (they might be small tanks or drones for all I know). What about the government backed 'complex network of computers'? It actually decreased the Information Technology stat for some reason? What about the literal armour-plated flying castle? Surely that would increase SA?

Fair enough, changes made.

Existing drops in the industry were knock on effects from other industry increases.
Now boosts IT and tech levels a little, is more expensive than before, and requires computers.

[Verdant Haven]

Issue 146 - "Evolution: Truth or Witchcraft?"

Issue text: Religious and scientific leaders have clashed recently over the teaching of evolution in public schools.

Option selected: Option 1 (agree with scientist to ban the teaching of religion, and exclusively require teaching of evolution and other scientifically-backed information)

Unexpected stat change: Social Conservativism up by .35

Query - I totally dig the other effects of this choice - civil rights down, authoritarianism up, but I was extremely surprised to see Social Conservativism increase when I basically just kicked religion in the teeth again. Is SC just a secondary stat and this is a knock-on affect from the Authoritarianism increase, or is it actually programmed directly here? While I realize my Religiousness stat can't get much lower, it still feels a bit like that should outweigh the other things here, especially given that the SC stat is named after two American politicians whose personal fetishization of Jesus worship is practically legendary (suggesting that the American twist of blending conservative social policy with religious dogma is what this stat is based on).

[Ghost Land]

Issue 146 - "Evolution: Truth or Witchcraft?"

Issue text: Religious and scientific leaders have clashed recently over the teaching of evolution in public schools.

Option selected: Option 1 (agree with scientist to ban the teaching of religion, and exclusively require teaching of evolution and other scientifically-backed information)

Unexpected stat change: Social Conservativism up by .35

Query - I totally dig the other effects of this choice - civil rights down, authoritarianism up, but I was extremely surprised to see Social Conservativism increase when I basically just kicked religion in the teeth again. Is SC just a secondary stat and this is a knock-on affect from the Authoritarianism increase, or is it actually programmed directly here? While I realize my Religiousness stat can't get much lower, it still feels a bit like that should outweigh the other things here, especially given that the SC stat is named after two American politicians whose personal fetishization of Jesus worship is practically legendary (suggesting that the American twist of blending conservative social policy with religious dogma is what this stat is based on).

Social Conservatism, from my understanding, is just a slightly scale-adjusted version of (100-Civil Rights); if your civil rights are at 63, your social conservatism will be around 37, give or take.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

That's more or less right. In the past I've proposed it should be renamed Social Control.

[Verdant Haven]

-blah blah blah-

Social Conservatism, from my understanding, is just a slightly scale-adjusted version of (100-Civil Rights); if your civil rights are at 63, your social conservatism will be around 37, give or take.

That's more or less right. In the past I've proposed it should be renamed Social Control.

Ahh, interesting. Ok, thanks you for the explanation! The "Bush-Santorum" aspect of its descriptor definitely has me barking up the wrong tree with its intention. @CWA - I definitely agree with that name for it, given this description.

[Refuge Isle]

Heyo friendos

I don't know if it's intentional or a bug, but option 3a in issue 1023 doesn't seem to have any effects?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Heyo friendos

I don't know if it's intentional or a bug, but option 3a in issue 1023 doesn't seem to have any effects?

(Image)

The FAQ in the first post of this thread covers this. See under: "Why did this stat change by X%? That's too much / too little!"

[The Chuck]

The name of the nation that had this effect: The Chuck
The day that this effect was encountered: March 3rd, 2019
The name of the issue, and if you know it, the number of the issue: "Killer App" Issue #902

I selected choice 3A (according to https://nsindex.net/wiki/NationStates_Issue_No._902) to legalize contract killings and it nullified my gun ownership policy. I am a bit confused by how this nullifies compulsory gun ownership.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

The name of the nation that had this effect: The Chuck
The day that this effect was encountered: March 3rd, 2019
The name of the issue, and if you know it, the number of the issue: "Killer App" Issue #902

I selected choice 3A (according to https://nsindex.net/wiki/NationStates_Issue_No._902) to legalize contract killings and it nullified my gun ownership policy. I am a bit confused by how this nullifies compulsory gun ownership.

Thanks, mild coding error. Now fixed.

[The Chuck]

The name of the nation that had this effect: The Chuck
The day that this effect was encountered: March 3rd, 2019
The name of the issue, and if you know it, the number of the issue: "Killer App" Issue #902

I selected choice 3A (according to https://nsindex.net/wiki/NationStates_Issue_No._902) to legalize contract killings and it nullified my gun ownership policy. I am a bit confused by how this nullifies compulsory gun ownership.

Thanks, mild coding error. Now fixed.

No problem, thanks for looking into it

[Verdant Haven]

I have a curious one from issue 464 (The @@ANIMAL@@ Republic Shall Rise Again?). This issue is the Confederate flag stand-in issue.

Option one resulted in a drop in civil rights, which feels out of place, since it has nothing to do with civil rights.

The option text for option 1:

“It’s unconscionable that politicians still defend flying such a repulsive racist symbol on government property!” declares Paris Martinez, a civil rights activist sporting colorful Tasmanian tribal attire - despite recent public revelations that she in fact has no Tasmanian ancestry whatsoever. “That flag has only ever been used to heighten racial divisions in this country; we must ban the display of the Thylacine Republic flag in any official capacity!”

The effect text:

Government buildings are being cleansed of anything that might have racist connotations.

Both the option and the effect are very clear that this only applies to official government practice and official government property. It doesn't have any impact on the rights of citizens - nor even politicians, who never had the right to arbitrarily use foreign symbols in the face of officially dictated letterhead, national flags on buildings, agency seals, etc. What civil rights are at play here?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

I have a curious one from issue 464 (The @@ANIMAL@@ Republic Shall Rise Again?). This issue is the Confederate flag stand-in issue.

Option one resulted in a drop in civil rights, which feels out of place, since it has nothing to do with civil rights.

The option text for option 1:

“It’s unconscionable that politicians still defend flying such a repulsive racist symbol on government property!” declares Paris Martinez, a civil rights activist sporting colorful Tasmanian tribal attire - despite recent public revelations that she in fact has no Tasmanian ancestry whatsoever. “That flag has only ever been used to heighten racial divisions in this country; we must ban the display of the Thylacine Republic flag in any official capacity!”

The effect text:

Government buildings are being cleansed of anything that might have racist connotations.

Both the option and the effect are very clear that this only applies to official government practice and official government property. It doesn't have any impact on the rights of citizens - nor even politicians, who never had the right to arbitrarily use foreign symbols in the face of officially dictated letterhead, national flags on buildings, agency seals, etc. What civil rights are at play here?

Good points.

Fixed.

[Verdant Haven]

Thanks a bunch, CWA!

[Gretebisland]

#136 option 3
Banning Abortion increased Civil Rights by 2.5%! Why?(I like this but doesn't it decrease it?)

[Leutria]

#136 option 3
Banning Abortion increased Civil Rights by 2.5%! Why?(I like this but doesn't it decrease it?)

This has been answered a couple times. Let me quote the last time one of the editors answered it for you

Yes. Awhile back, the team (aware of the deep and personal feelings around the sensitive issue of abortion) took the -- perhaps controversial decision -- to (generally speaking, allowing for individual stats) programme a civil rights rise for both banning and allowing abortion.

Due to the strength of emotion it raises, we felt it inappropriate to come down on either side of this debate.

EDIT: It's worth saying that, although your civil rights appear to have risen considerably, in raw numbers, the rise is comparatively small (from 24.17 to 25.75). If you have not yet done so, I suggest you turn on "Show More Stats", which shows a more detailed breakdown of your results. The percentage numbers can make things look larger than they are.