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[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.

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The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 6073
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:47 am

South Ccanda wrote:Uuuuuhhhhhh, so basically, I made internet free for my entire nation, and for some reason, it cancelled my "Public Protest" national policy. I'm not sure how that could happen...

In future, please give the issue name/number and the option you chose.

You chose an option which offered "content discrimination", i.e. restriction, as part of the programme of bringing @@NAME@@'s entire internet under government control. Restricting content and controlling the whole internet reduced your citizens' rights of free speech and would make it harder to engage in political campaigning. Thus, selecting this option reduced your citizens' rights in that area to below a level that allows the Public Protest policy to occur.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Candlewhisper Archive
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 17392
Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:03 am

Edit: Joy's reading is correct, though the fault is mine. I added those stats on the basis that I thought the option was proposing the government seizing control of the internet, but in retrospect the issue's premise is simply about government provision of internet services.

Have clarified the option, and redone the stats.
Last edited by Candlewhisper Archive on Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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God Fearing Devoted
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 163
Founded: Jul 30, 2017
Corporate Police State

Postby God Fearing Devoted » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:35 am

I just the issuer regarding tanks being used by the civilian police.i imposed martial law, and crime went UP?! That seems odd.

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Candlewhisper Archive
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 17392
Founded: Aug 28, 2015
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:43 am

God Fearing Devoted wrote:I just the issuer regarding tanks being used by the civilian police.i imposed martial law, and crime went UP?! That seems odd.


Actually the option you picked was this:

The tank drives off, ruining the gardens around your office. “I can’t believe you let amateurs use heavy armor,” comments Gregory Cruz, a military attaché from Maxtopia. “Occupying unruly neighborhoods can reduce unrest, but only if the job is done by professionals. Let the army handle all police work from now on, and you won’t have untrained idiots demolishing every street sign in their path. Nothing maintains law and order quite like the barrel of a gun and a proper curfew.”


As in, you replaced the police force with the army. That makes a bit of a saving as you no longer have to fund a police department, and the no nonsense approach is more effective in defeating crime from a purely tactical point of view, but getting rid of all that stuff like investigation, prevention and due process (that is, the stuff that POLICE officers know how to do) is going to have some downsides.

Broadly, the net effect of this issue will vary according to where your nation starts off. If you're a lawless hellhole with an already ineffectual police department, odds are it'll be a smart anticrime strategy. That wasn't the case for you though - you already had crime under good control, generally speaking, thanks to a very effective police force.

Properly speaking this option should inflict much greater hits to police funding than you suffered, but ultimately we decided on a more measured approach to make the issue less erratic. As it is, it's working as intended.

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Isle Willte
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Isle Willte » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:12 pm

Conscientious Objectors Want You... To Let Them Abstain
On this issue, I picked to draft priests and the only stat change was my military going down. I would like to make sure that the stat changes are working right because I would have thought that it would cause my military to increase because it said I was drafting more people.

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All are Equal
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 181
Founded: Jul 30, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby All are Equal » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:40 pm

Thank you Candlewhisper! You're correct that I didn't explain my thinking effectively there. Great explanation.

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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 17643
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:36 am

This nation, just now, Issue #1131, option 4: Promoting toleration of cults makes the Weather 1.2% worse (value 83.00=>82.00)?!?
That seems a bit too strong to be just an uncoded secondary effect...
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

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The Free Joy State
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Posts: 6073
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:57 am

Bears Armed wrote:This nation, just now, Issue #1131, option 4: Promoting toleration of cults makes the Weather 1.2% worse (value 83.00=>82.00)?!?
That seems a bit too strong to be just an uncoded secondary effect...

I'm afraid that a secondary effect is what it is. We don't directly code weather.

Isle Willte wrote:Conscientious Objectors Want You... To Let Them Abstain
On this issue, I picked to draft priests and the only stat change was my military going down. I would like to make sure that the stat changes are working right because I would have thought that it would cause my military to increase because it said I was drafting more people.

Yes, that's correct. You chose the option to allow priests to serve in non-military roles. As this issue is for nations that already draft people, it assumes that you draft the religious (it opens by saying a religious scholar has asked to be exempted, suggesting the default is that they would not be).

By allowing the religious to be conscripted to serve in non-fighting roles, you slightly reduced your active defence force. It's working as intended.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 17643
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:06 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Bears Armed wrote:This nation, just now, Issue #1131, option 4: Promoting toleration of cults makes the Weather 1.2% worse (value 83.00=>82.00)?!?
That seems a bit too strong to be just an uncoded secondary effect...

I'm afraid that a secondary effect is what it is. We don't directly code weather.

Oh well, Thank you for answering, anyhows.
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

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Trotterdam
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7093
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:16 am

Bears Armed wrote:This nation, just now, Issue #1131, option 4: Promoting toleration of cults makes the Weather 1.2% worse (value 83.00=>82.00)?!?
That seems a bit too strong to be just an uncoded secondary effect...
Look at absolute effects, not relative changes. (Though even relatively, 1.2% isn't that much.)

Weather is always an integer, so changing by 1.00 is literally the smallest possible change it can do.

More importantly, option 4? Why didn't you report that? We currently know only three options, and without the internal option numbering.

Anyway, assuming that you mean the last currently-reported option, an examination suggests that the effect on Weather is likely due to the hit to Health. Which, admittedly, I'm not entirely sure of the reason for either.

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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 17643
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:36 am

Trotterdam wrote:More importantly, option 4? Why didn't you report that? We currently know only three options, and without the internal option numbering.
I didn't notice the issue number, and realise that it might need reporting, until too late.

Oops! I slipped up, and that was only option 3 rather than 4: it's the third of the ones listed in the post that you linked to, anyway.

assuming that you mean the last currently-reported option, an examination suggests that the effect on Weather is likely due to the hit to Health. Which, admittedly, I'm not entirely sure of the reason for either.
I don't seem to have received a hit to Health for this... unless that was only in the extra 'Details', which I didn't look at.
Maybe it's a side-effect of the boost to Religiousness, on an assumption that Religion takes place mainly indoors so increased religious activity indicates/causes worse weather (in line with the already-explained assumption to that effect about Culture)?
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

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The Free Joy State
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Posts: 6073
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:31 am

Bears Armed wrote:
Trotterdam wrote:More importantly, option 4? Why didn't you report that? We currently know only three options, and without the internal option numbering.
I didn't notice the issue number, and realise that it might need reporting, until too late.

Oops! I slipped up, and that was only option 3 rather than 4: it's the third of the ones listed in the post that you linked to, anyway.

assuming that you mean the last currently-reported option, an examination suggests that the effect on Weather is likely due to the hit to Health. Which, admittedly, I'm not entirely sure of the reason for either.
I don't seem to have received a hit to Health for this... unless that was only in the extra 'Details', which I didn't look at.
Maybe it's a side-effect of the boost to Religiousness, on an assumption that Religion takes place mainly indoors so increased religious activity indicates/causes worse weather (in line with the already-explained assumption to that effect about Culture)?

I can confirm there are only three options on that issue.
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The Seven Seas
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 15
Founded: May 28, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Seven Seas » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:59 am

In issue 175, "Is @@NAME@@ Too Promiscuous?", I chose option 3.
"With the greatest of respect, this is none of your business!" yells @@RANDOMNAME@@ who is rumoured to have had more than a thousand lovers and even more children. "The government has no right to go about trying to dictate the laws of love and romance! Marriages break down, people move on - is it really the government's place to make people stay put? You must recognise the fact that the law has no place within the bedroom!"


This reduced my Law Enforcement by 100%, and although I didn't have loads beforehand I still had enough to be executing 10% of my citizens. It seems like an extreme change because the option is only about keeping law enforcement out of 'the bedroom'.
I am a pirate

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The Free Joy State
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Posts: 6073
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:24 am

The Seven Seas wrote:In issue 175, "Is @@NAME@@ Too Promiscuous?", I chose option 3.
"With the greatest of respect, this is none of your business!" yells @@RANDOMNAME@@ who is rumoured to have had more than a thousand lovers and even more children. "The government has no right to go about trying to dictate the laws of love and romance! Marriages break down, people move on - is it really the government's place to make people stay put? You must recognise the fact that the law has no place within the bedroom!"


This reduced my Law Enforcement by 100%, and although I didn't have loads beforehand I still had enough to be executing 10% of my citizens. It seems like an extreme change because the option is only about keeping law enforcement out of 'the bedroom'.

Percentage is, actually, not the best way to work out stats. It's best to look at the raw numbers. To do that, go into Settings and turn on "Show More Stats"

Your number fell from 134.31 to 0.00 (which is in alignment with the programmed changes expected from keeping law enforcement out of the bedroom). But the raw numbers of law enforcement can extend into the thousands (for example my nation, The Free Joy State, has a law enforcement score of 2,737.62, and is only in the top 23% of the world), making this change comparatively small.

There's nothing unusual about this outcome.

EDIT: As for your law enforcement and death penalty, stats don't interact with that level of granularity. Maybe, if you don't have official law enforcement, your nation finds enthusiastic volunteers?
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Seven Seas
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 15
Founded: May 28, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Seven Seas » Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:47 pm

The Free Joy State wrote:Percentage is, actually, not the best way to work out stats. It's best to look at the raw numbers. To do that, go into Settings and turn on "Show More Stats"

Your number fell from 134.31 to 0.00 (which is in alignment with the programmed changes expected from keeping law enforcement out of the bedroom). But the raw numbers of law enforcement can extend into the thousands (for example my nation, The Free Joy State, has a law enforcement score of 2,737.62, and is only in the top 23% of the world), making this change comparatively small.

There's nothing unusual about this outcome.

EDIT: As for your law enforcement and death penalty, stats don't interact with that level of granularity. Maybe, if you don't have official law enforcement, your nation finds enthusiastic volunteers?


Thanks for the explanation!
I am a pirate

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Ghost Land
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 363
Founded: Feb 14, 2014
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Ghost Land » Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:52 am

How did 728.3 on this nation increase economic freedom and decrease tax rate, income equality, radicality, and authoritarianism? Compulsory organ harvesting seems pretty extreme to me.
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Oppermenia
Minister
 
Posts: 2142
Founded: Apr 03, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Oppermenia » Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:34 am

I don’t know if this is the right thread for this, but I received the “If At First You Don’t Succeed” issue, and then I chose the option that “puts limits on a monarchy by an elected government”. And, I got the autocracy policy just to get a constitutional monarchy. And yet, it didn’t cancel the autocracy policy. I think something that mentions an elected government should cancel a policy that forbids elections.
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Fauxia
Senator
 
Posts: 3940
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Fauxia » Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:18 pm

452.3 in Merigania caused civil rights to rise 5.53- that seems inconsistent with most other abortion issue results.
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The Free Joy State
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Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:15 am

Ghost Land wrote:How did 728.3 on this nation increase economic freedom and decrease tax rate, income equality, radicality, and authoritarianism? Compulsory organ harvesting seems pretty extreme to me.

For many nations, it would indeed cause a significant lowering in civil rights. However, your nation's civil rights are about as restricted as they can get. And this option plays off another right: the economic right to sell body parts. So, this gained freedom overrided the civil rights of your citizens (which had nowhere to go) and gave the results you saw.

Oppermenia wrote:I don’t know if this is the right thread for this, but I received the “If At First You Don’t Succeed” issue, and then I chose the option that “puts limits on a monarchy by an elected government”. And, I got the autocracy policy just to get a constitutional monarchy. And yet, it didn’t cancel the autocracy policy. I think something that mentions an elected government should cancel a policy that forbids elections.

Hmm.. Good point.

Altered.

Fauxia wrote:452.3 in Merigania caused civil rights to rise 5.53- that seems inconsistent with most other abortion issue results.

That's correct.

Awhile back, aware of the sensitive nature of the abortion debate, the issues team took the -- perhaps controversial -- decision to be completely neutral, taking neither one side or the other. As a result, both banning and allowing abortion will generally (depending on your own personal front- and backstage stats) see you gain civil rights.

If abortion is banned, your civil rights take into account the pro-life advocates' idea of the bodily rights of the foetus. If abortion is allowed, your civil rights take into account the right of the woman.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Frievolk
Minister
 
Posts: 3363
Founded: Jun 14, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Frievolk » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:54 am

Issue #269: "Stop the Presses!"

I picked the option #1 "“There is no real problem here,” says noted economist Desmond Cox. “If newspapers are no longer selling, they shouldn’t exist in a free market economy; let capitalism take its course. Who cares if a few newspapers go under? Besides, it’s probably good for the digital industry, right?”" but in result I saw an increase in taxation. Could I ask why?
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The Free Joy State
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Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:03 am

Frievolk wrote:Issue #269: "Stop the Presses!"

I picked the option #1 "“There is no real problem here,” says noted economist Desmond Cox. “If newspapers are no longer selling, they shouldn’t exist in a free market economy; let capitalism take its course. Who cares if a few newspapers go under? Besides, it’s probably good for the digital industry, right?”" but in result I saw an increase in taxation. Could I ask why?

Taxation in a known limitation in our simulation.

From the OP of this thread:

The answer usually lies in your economic output.
The more economic output you have, the less %tax you need to support your spending.

Bear in mind that economic output is dependent on a lot of interacting factors. Sometimes an option will cause you to shrink your economy by more than you proportionally shrank your spending, causing a tax rise to support the same spending. Sometimes it won't. Often different things will happen to different nations faced with the same issue choice.

- Why didn't tax fall when an option described a corporation tax cut / sales tax cut?

The tax model of the game is very simplistic, and it basically abstracts all spending as income tax and doesn't take into account any idea of government borrowing, deficit spending or tax from sources other than income tax.

That gives us limited tools for simulation.

Corporation tax is rolled into business subsidisation, with lowering of corporate tax representing an effective business subsidisation, and a shifting of tax burden onto the income taxpayer.

Sales tax and VAT, meanwhile, move income tax inversely, as raising more revenue from these forms of taxation decreases the burden on income tax, and vice versa.

This isn't entirely satisfactory, of course, as it means that the descriptions of "Freedom From Taxation" on the graphs aren't accurate, but it's reflective of how the game engine is written and of the simulation's limitations. It basically isn't possible to have burden of taxation and income tax move in opposite directions, as in the simulation all measured tax = income tax.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ElJefe
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby ElJefe » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:14 pm

Moments ago, I encountered 675: Trick or Treaty for the first time.

I chose option 1, sign the international treaty for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

My Eco-Friendliness went down.

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The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 6073
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:26 pm

ElJefe wrote:Moments ago, I encountered 675: Trick or Treaty for the first time.

I chose option 1, sign the international treaty for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

My Eco-Friendliness went down.

Yes, I see what that is. Your eco-friendliness is a secondary stat, made up of an enormous list -- literally, it's huge -- of stats that can impact it. Unfortunately, a number of those back- and frontstage stats interact here, which means that it can change slightly unpredictably.

Here, it resulted in a very small drop of 0.29% (from 4,366.76 to 4,354.26).

However, your Environmental Beauty scores, which measures "most attractive and best cared for environments", rose 72.2% (from 111.80 to 192.57).

Your stats are working as expected.
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Ghost Land
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 363
Founded: Feb 14, 2014
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Ghost Land » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:26 am

How did 136.4 on this nation (one-child policy) increase my economic freedom and decrease my authoritarianism and radicality?
Forum account/puppet of 60s Music.
Originally joined 24 April 2012.
This nation reflects the OPPOSITE of my views.
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Pro: Republican Party, Donald Trump, tougher border laws, 1st/2nd Amendments, benevolent dictators
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The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 6073
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:40 am

Ghost Land wrote:How did 136.4 on this nation (one-child policy) increase my economic freedom and decrease my authoritarianism and radicality?

It plays off two rights: the right to control your own body (which, being about as restricted as they could get in your nation, didn't really have anywhere to go) and the freedom "to spend money elsewhere" (which increased). As your people are about as restricted as they could be, the system weighted the latter freedoms more.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

The Writer's Block Possible Issue Error? or Unusual Issue Effects? (check OPs) Current Issues (Spoilers!)

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