[MEGATHREAD] Unusual Issue Effects

[The Free Joy State]

I can't see where you answered that recently. And that's certainly not the effect it would have on every nation.

Average income of rich and poor are secondary stats that are distilled from a vast number of variables. Depending on where your nation begins will depend on the effect that option has.

A nation that begins with higher levels of economic freedoms will often experience a drastic drop in income for the poor as a result of the able poor being less able to have any say in their own destiny. A nation with medium to lower economic freedoms may not notice such a differece. Due to the other changes, playing off against each nation's individual stats (there's an awful lot of stats that go into average incomes) a rise is also possible, even though it isn't intended.

This is incorrect. The option always increases Income Equality and decreases Average Income of Rich, and usually increases Average Income of Poor (sometimes it causes a much smaller decrease instead, but that is due to the economy as a whole tanking).

Your resource, while very nice I'm sure, is not official. It has never been official. Unless you measure every nation and have access to every nation's front and backstage stats -- which you do not -- you cannot make such assumptions about what always happens.

When running it through several test nations, I saw the average income of the poor fall every time.

This is a direct consequence of the game's inconsistent definition and usage of "Economic Freedom", where the editors have decided that the right of poor people to be free from the influence of rich people (rather than the government) also counts as an economic freedom, yet the internal calculations still treat all economic freedom as benefitting the rich more than the poor.

These things are secondary stats. Editors do not calculate secondary stats. Editors have never calculated secondary stats. Editors have made that clear many, many times.

With James II, the civil rights are already not great, which minimised the negative effects that this option has on the rights of the poor in this case. And, as I said, numerous other effects play off against each other here, meaning that a rise can occur.

...Civil rights? What?

Yes. Being denied an education due to being born poor plays into civil rights.

The civil right to an education.

[All are Equal]

The 3rd paragraph of my blurb begins,"weakened police force", then ENDS with "well-funded police force". Huh?!

[The Free Joy State]

The 3rd paragraph of my blurb begins,"weakened police force", then ENDS with "well-funded police force". Huh?!

This thread doesn't actually deal with blurb contradictions that arise from answering issues, but unexpected stat effects that directly result from answering an issue.

However, what would have happened is that you chose to cut police funding in an issue, which is reflected the the effect line (this part -- "A weakened police force struggles to maintain law and order […] and psychiatrists that date patients are congratulated on their romantic conquests." -- is comprised of your four most recent effect lines), but your police funding is still high enough overall for your automatically generated blurb to describe you as having a "well-funded police force".

[Lamaredia]

Issue 349, I chose the option to send the deposed leaders back.

Why does this affect the civil rights of my nation? If they, as the issue states in several areas, have committed war crimes, they should be sent back to Bigtopia. Or, preferably, there should be an option to put them on trial in front of a world tribune. To either have the option of letting war criminals sent back to the nation where they committed the crimes, just let them stay without repercussions, or make WMDs, sending them back is not something that should lower your civil rights imho.

[Fauxia]

Issue 349, I chose the option to send the deposed leaders back.

Why does this affect the civil rights of my nation? If they, as the issue states in several areas, have committed war crimes, they should be sent back to Bigtopia. Or, preferably, there should be an option to put them on trial in front of a world tribune. To either have the option of letting war criminals sent back to the nation where they committed the crimes, just let them stay without repercussions, or make WMDs, sending them back is not something that should lower your civil rights imho.

You’re not allowing people to stay; not letting them do what they want. That’s an attack on civil rights.

Read the OP and the spoiler about Civil Rights, it may be of interest.

[The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom]

Server Date/Time: today, Aug 21, 2018 7:35 pm

Issue #473 A-B-C, Easy as Don't Use Me
Unusual effects of option 1 (enforce image rights): poor incomes up by $230, rich incomes down by $1800. I expected the reverse since image piracy hurts the rich and benefits the poor who don't pay royalties to the image-rights holder for its use, and also because the faces of rich and famous people are much more valuable than your average Joe.

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Server Date/Time: today, Aug 21, 2018 10:45 pm

#108 Gambling Interests Offer High Stakes
Option 2 (crackdown on organised crime) boosted my Law Enforcement by a mere 150 points for +$0.39 tax. The cost is too steep!

[The Marsupial Illuminati]

Server Date/Time: today, Aug 21, 2018 7:35 pm

Issue #473 A-B-C, Easy as Don't Use Me
Unusual effects of option 1 (enforce image rights): poor incomes up by $230, rich incomes down by $1800. I expected the reverse since image piracy hurts the rich and benefits the poor who don't pay royalties to the image-rights holder for its use, and also because the faces of rich and famous people are much more valuable than your average Joe.

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Server Date/Time: today, Aug 21, 2018 10:45 pm

#108 Gambling Interests Offer High Stakes
Option 2 (crackdown on organised crime) boosted my Law Enforcement by a mere 150 points for +$0.39 tax. The cost is too steep!

There is nothing unusual about these stat changes.

[Agnatoli]

This
Today
#1026 Size Matters

I started sending globes to school.
But why does it Eco-Friendliness? And by 5.7%? That doesn't contain any pro-Eco text and just listening to an environmentalist doesn't always increase it!

[The Free Joy State]

This
Today
#1026 Size Matters

I started sending globes to school.
But why does it Eco-Friendliness? And by 5.7%? That doesn't contain any pro-Eco text and just listening to an environmentalist doesn't always increase it!

Yes. It's related to you choosing the option of the "cliché hippy environmentalist" who is teaching children that they are "citizens of the planet".

Working as intended.

[All are Equal]

When opening my universities to foreign students, poor income fell and rich rose. I assume because the affluent foreign students were taking the spots of domestic students?

[The Free Joy State]

When opening my universities to foreign students, poor income fell and rich rose. I assume because the affluent foreign students were taking the spots of domestic students?

Those are secondary stats, and they really have an awful lot of variables. Here, it's largely related to giving your universities the economic freedom to welcome in international money students. This will often positively impact the wealthy, but might not trickle down to poorer citizens (depending on the stats you started out with).

In future reports, please could you give the nation and the issue name or number. It makes it easier for us to find.

[Trotterdam]

It appears that #1053 is available to nations with No Sex. While the editors have established that No Sex is misnamed and doesn't actually ban sex, it does sterilize everyone to prevent reproductive sex, so the situation of fathering illegitimate children, even with women who aren't similarly sterilized, shouldn't come up (and if it does, the fact that these children were naturally-born in contravention to law would be a bigger sticking point than the fact that they're half-foreign).

[Zonterldia Holf]

I had the "A Violet Trojan Horse" issue and picked one of the choices promoting unbiased teaching of all religions. My countries civil rights rose, and one of the stat effects was recreational drug use went up 12%. The thing is though that one of my countries policies is "No Drugs". Even accounting for people that would be doing it illegally, I doubt a country that had banned all recreational drug use, would see a 12% increase because all religions are being taught in schools in an unbiased way. While they are both civil rights related, they are separate issues, and one that I doubt would be affected positively by each other. Seem's a little odd. Do all my civil rights sub-issues go up because one sub-issue is supported, despite other sub-issues being outright banned?

[The Free Joy State]

It appears that #1053 is available to nations with No Sex. While the editors have established that No Sex is misnamed and doesn't actually ban sex, it does sterilize everyone to prevent reproductive sex, so the situation of fathering illegitimate children, even with women who aren't similarly sterilized, shouldn't come up (and if it does, the fact that these children were naturally-born in contravention to law would be a bigger sticking point than the fact that they're half-foreign).

Actually, we were discussing this backstage the other day. No Sex can appear with or without No Abortion, No Contraception, No Marriage and so on.

We feel would interfere with player autonomy to dictate to them what their policy must mean. Although there's room for a well-written issue to clarify this point.

Also, as this was a validity question, it should have gone here.

I had the "A Violet Trojan Horse" issue and picked one of the choices promoting unbiased teaching of all religions. My countries civil rights rose, and one of the stat effects was recreational drug use went up 12%. The thing is though that one of my countries policies is "No Drugs". Even accounting for people that would be doing it illegally, I doubt a country that had banned all recreational drug use, would see a 12% increase because all religions are being taught in schools in an unbiased way. While they are both civil rights related, they are separate issues, and one that I doubt would be affected positively by each other. Seem's a little odd. Do all my civil rights sub-issues go up because one sub-issue is supported, despite other sub-issues being outright banned?

Freedom of and from religion is often considered to be a pretty large civil right. But, in your case, the change will be especially notable because your civil rights were so low. When you go from no civil rights to some, the effects is always especially notable. If you go from very low to even less, it's not very noticeable (it may not even change) and likewise if you go from very high to even higher.

As for recreational drug use, there's nothing we can do about that. It's a secondary stat. The game automatically links higher civil rights with higher recreational drug use. It's a known bug.

[Eastern Tatarstan]

My civil rights were at 51, economy at 55, political freedom at 32 and I was the Father Knows Best State. After some unimportant issue the civil rights rose to 55, economy to 58, political freedom remained at 32 and I was still the Father Knows Best State. Then I encountered issue #675 Trick or Treaty where I accepted the 1st option I think. The economy fell to 56, civil rights rose to 61, political freedom was still at 32 and i was reclassified to Corrupt Dictatorship even though it requires much more significant drop in economy. Remember, i was Father Knows Best State with 55 economy so with 56 economy I shouldn't be a regime that has clearly weaker economy than the Father Knows Best State.

[The Free Joy State]

My civil rights were at 51, economy at 55, political freedom at 32 and I was the Father Knows Best State. After some unimportant issue the civil rights rose to 55, economy to 58, political freedom remained at 32 and I was still the Father Knows Best State. Then I encountered issue #675 Trick or Treaty where I accepted the 1st option I think. The economy fell to 56, civil rights rose to 61, political freedom was still at 32 and i was reclassified to Corrupt Dictatorship even though it requires much more significant drop in economy. Remember, i was Father Knows Best State with 55 economy so with 56 economy I shouldn't be a regime that has clearly weaker economy than the Father Knows Best State.

The issue you answered is coded correctly.

This thread isn't the place to discuss the boundaries for nation classifications. That would probably be technical. However, I can say that you reduced your citizens' economic freedoms quite significantly (lightbulbs and recycling targets and appliances available for purchase will all be covered by the treaty), which pushed you into a higher level of authoritarianism. And, (judging by this post of classification boundaries) it seems that this change may have tipped you into being a corrupt dictatorship.

Your backstage levels, in raw numbers were already pretty high and this decision appears to have just pushed you over the edge.

[Hediacrana]

I wonder why 942:1 led to an increase in rudeness in my nation. Is rudeness one of these stats that's determined by a bunch of underlying stats?

[The Free Joy State]

I wonder why 942:1 led to an increase in rudeness in my nation. Is rudeness one of these stats that's determined by a bunch of underlying stats?

Rudeness is a bit of a fun stat, because it can be primary or secondary. Here, it's a secondary stat and completely unrelated to any of the effects input into the issue by us.

[Veroza]

Hi there, I wanted to draw attention to the "Xe said, Zhe said" issue. I chose the 1st option, but my social conservatism rank went up by 4.2%. I've actually noticed that this ranking has gone up for a lot of issues when it probably shouldn't have. Is this a known issue?

[Hediacrana]

I wonder why 942:1 led to an increase in rudeness in my nation. Is rudeness one of these stats that's determined by a bunch of underlying stats?

Rudeness is a bit of a fun stat, because it can be primary or secondary. Here, it's a secondary stat and completely unrelated to any of the effects input into the issue by us.

Okay, thanks.

[The Free Joy State]

Hi there, I wanted to draw attention to the "Xe said, Zhe said" issue. I chose the 1st option, but my social conservatism rank went up by 4.2%. I've actually noticed that this ranking has gone up for a lot of issues when it probably shouldn't have. Is this a known issue?

What this option does is play off two different freedoms, and -- based on that -- it can have different effects, depending on your nation's stats.

This option plays off the freedom for transgender people to have their gender recognised and the freedom for people to use the words they like. If your nation's civil rights are already very good (which they are), the restriction on free speech will often override the right for transgender people to have their gender recognised and lower civil rights, this increasing social conservatism (which is a secondary stat that's tied into civil rights).

A nation with lower civil rights would often -- but not always -- see their civil rights improve and social conservativism go down.

[Fauxia]

Why does 767.2 seem to always lower civil rights? I’m loosening/standing for more free speech.

[The Marsupial Illuminati]

Why does 767.2 seem to always lower civil rights? I’m loosening/standing for more free speech.

That option does increase the freedom of speech. I don't know what nation you answered this issue on, but I can tell that that nation protects freedom of speech to a high degree. In fact, it probably couldn't go any higher.

The option also decreases the rights of transgender individuals, since you allowed for them to be discriminated against. Since freedom of speech was probably already or nearly maximized, the decrease in transgender rights outweighed the increase in the freedom of speech, so your nation experienced a net decrease in the civil rights stat.

If a nation started off with low or moderate protections for freedom of speech, civil rights would most likely have increased if they chose this option.

[Fauxia]

Why does 767.2 seem to always lower civil rights? I’m loosening/standing for more free speech.

That option does increase the freedom of speech. I don't what nation you answered this issue on, but I can tell that that nation protects freedom of speech to a high degree. In fact, it probably couldn't go any higher.

The option also decreases the rights of transgender individuals, since you allowed for them to be discriminated against. Since freedom of speech was probably already or nearly maximized, the decrease in transgender rights outweighed the increase in the freedom of speech, so your nation experienced a net decrease in the civil rights stat.

If a nation started off with low or moderate protections for freedom of speech, civil rights would most likely have increased if they chose this option.

Oh yeah whoops, forgot to say the nation

Anyway, it has civil rights in the 85-90 range and lots of free speech, so that’s probably what happened.

Thanks!

[Apabeossie]

This
Seconds ago
#739 in loco parentis
Fifteen-year-olds cannot walk younger siblings to school without a professional Childcare and Education Certificate.

Why does it have to do something with the economy?